Cabbage x 5

EDIT:

I expected to come in here to have an intelligent discussion on the topic of unbranded bikes, but I guess I set my expectations way too high. I don't know why I should be surprised by that. I always held the opinion that cyclists were a bunch of snobs, but I figured I would give you a chance. Well, you guys just reinforced my convictions.

Apparently around here you can't ask a question unless it is about some big corpo-bike that Lance told you to buy, otherwise you are branded as a shill. I guess nobody is shilling over in the Cult of CAAD. I suppose with name brands, you're allowed to dedicate whole threads to it, but God forbid you mention anything else around here.

I both started and ended my question off by stating that I am not an expert. Twice I declared that I am not an expert. I suppose I expected a person of reasonable intelligence would determine that to mean that my opinions should really hold no value. Kinda hard to shill when you tell peolpe flat out that your opinions should carry no weight, innit? Hell, Steve90068, if you can't figure out who I am supposed to be shilling for, then maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump on me as a shill, huh? Hell, I guess I'm not dealing with the brightest bulbs in the batch here.

Bob, that was the quickest turnaround I ever saw: "Welcome to the forums and enjoy your new bike. Oh, wait, someone else things you're a shill? Oh, yeah. Me too - you shill!!". Ba-aa-aa. Keep bleating and following the herd bob. You're quick to chastise me because you seem to think I made a hasty two minute decision based on a few similarities. Aren't you being a bit hypocritical? You find one minor difference and in haste, you declare that is where you stopped looking. You said that twice - even after I pointed out that the bike I received from PF is internally routed (as also confirmed by CrimpScampi, along with his/her confirmation that there is an ISP version of the QS3), and is therefore slightly different from one as the one in the PF photo. It's called design change, Bob - it happens every once in a while. And Gung Fu, Bob?!? Wait . . . uhm . . . what?? Gung Fu?!? WTF is that?? Seriously??

mtard - FYI. I ride in central/northeast NJ. I don't know how that helps you. I guess in your world it is only possible to shill from certain geographic locations? May I ask what color the sky is in your world? I've seen obvious shills on this site before. Do I seriously type with a Taiwanese accent? I think I have a better command of the English language than that, don't I? And no, I won't bother posting pics now. I seem to have lost interest in the opinions of anyone on this site. For me to hold any value in an opinion, I must see a display of intelligence on some level, and I certainly have not seen that here.

Commodus, seriously: "As for why PF ripped it off? Why don't you ask them?". Is that how you answer all questions asked on this site? Suppose I had a question on the advantage of deep dish aero wheels. Should I expect your answer to be, "F-off and die. Why don't you go ask the manufacturer why the bothered designing them that way?". Yeah, real helpful, Commodus. Thanks for your valuable insight.

You can have your little elitist little club. It is certainly not a club that I want to be associated with. I would rather be part of the club of true cyclists - yes, the ones that are embarrased by guys like you. It is most unfortunate that guys like you have so reinforced the cyclist-snob stereotype, that people probably assume I am one one too. I seriously hope that is not the case, but then again, you guys have so thoroughly reinforced it, how can they not?

dnuzzomueller, sced, CrimpScampi - thank you for you meaningful input. Unfortunately the sample size is so small that it is not telling me too much.

So in the end, you know what? Forget I asked. Question retracted.

Mods - you may ban me now if you see fit. I don't see what it will prevent, because I highly doubt I will be coming back for any reason.

Buy Trek!!

Commodus

Cyfacs are made in France, not Taiwan.

At some point your research will indicate to you that paint in various colours is available in many countries.

dnuzzomueller

I was looking at that frame a while ago. Basically it looks almost identical to a November Wheelhouse frame, even claimed weights are identical. I have an Aerocat which I have heard/ believe is merely a re-labeled Pinarello (Just to enforce that it uses the same hangers as pinarellos).

Basically; yes. Most of the frames you see in the "direct from manufacturer" flavor are just that: an unbranded frame.

Also on the note of "too much bike for you". Join the club, I am gonna guess anyone who is running anything besides an Allez, or CAAD (Or equivalent ofcourse), with one of the middle/ bottom of the line componentry is riding too much bike for themselves. That is the fun of it! If you enjoy the ride, enjoy it.

Bob Dopolina 

OP,

Those 2 frames are very different as in NOT the same frame.

Take a quick look at the seat stays. Look at where the der cables feed into the frames.

One is ISP and the other is not (ok, small difference).

I stopped looking at that point.

Plus, even if they look the same it doesn't mean they are made using the same materials or lay-up.

BTW, enjoy the heck out of your new bike and welcome to BF.

sced

It's probably a matter of "form fitting function", or different groups independently converging to the same design to meet the same goals. Take a look look at cars for a given market segment and you'll see its effect.

Cabbage x 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus

Cyfacs are made in France, not Taiwan.
At some point your research will indicate to you that paint in various colours is available in many countries.

Yes, both manufacturers claim different manufacturing locales, but it is not like I haven't heard of a few companies that have made false claims before, either. Not accusing either, just pointing out that it happens.
I am not entirely sure what your getting at with your second sentence. Are you saying that the color red is available in both Taiwan and France? I'd like to know who allowed that one to slip by. Or are you saying that similar paint schemes such as this case are not all that uncommon? Hard to believe, but if so, how/why would that happen? Got any other examples? These are two completely different bike manufacturers that are thousands of miles apart. I can't imagine they are spying on each other, so they steal each other's paint schemes. Most of the frames PF currently offers don't really even have a paint scheme. It is just clearcoat over finished carbon weave. The QS3 is the only one that is painted. It just seems a bit more than just uncanny that two completely different manufacturers happened to design the near exact same paint scheme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnuzzomueller

I was looking at that frame a while ago. Basically it looks almost identical to a November Wheelhouse frame, even claimed weights are identical. I have an Aerocat which I have heard/ believe is merely a re-labeled Pinarello (Just to enforce that it uses the same hangers as pinarellos).
Basically; yes. Most of the frames you see in the "direct from manufacturer" flavor are just that: an unbranded frame.

Not seeing it in the Wheelhouse. Nice looking bike, but I see too many structural differences.
I know there are a lot who follow the "same frame, only unbranded" mindset, but that just adds more questions surrounding what truly makes it cheaper, and the ease of using it to counterfeit the brand name, and why the brand would allow it to potentially damage their reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina

OP,
Those 2 frames are very different as in NOT the same frame.
Take a quick look at the seat stays. Look at where the der cables feed into the frames.
One is ISP and the other is not (ok, small difference).
I stopped looking at that point.
Plus, even if they look the same it doesn't mean they are made using the same materials or lay-up.
BTW, enjoy the heck out of your new bike and welcome to BF.

Yes, there are slight differences between the two, but the bike I received isn't even the exact same as the one that Pedal Force has pic'ed/spec'ed on their website. The one pic'ed has outer cable routing; mine is all internal. I also thought I saw a QS3 available with optional ISP. I'm not finding it on their site now, so I may be mistaken, or confusing it with other PF frames. I do know some of their other frames are made available with ISP as an option. It seems like these differences could be chalked up to model year, or design changes on the fly (like Delorean did with the DMC-12).

laserfj

Bob Dopolina 

Spam guy,

You're talking crap.

Those frames are VERY different in appearance and design and , although we couldn't verify it with a photo, there are most likely vast differences in prepreg, resin and lay-up.

Give it up.

Commodus

Troll or shill?

I'm confused.

CrimpScampi

The isp version of the QS3 frame was available during pedal forces recent cyber monday group buy. After comparing the pics and geometry of Ritte's BOSBERG model to my QS3 I think they are the same frame.

Bob Dopolina 

Your frame has an internally routed der cable on the DS chain stay. The PF frame is externally routed with a braze on.

Again, I stopped looking there.


Why do so many people think they can spend 2 minutes comparing frames (and missing OBVIOUS DIFFERENCES) and make the ridiculous claim that they know where the frame came from or who else is selling the same frame 'rebadged'.

Rocket surgeons one and all!

This thread just reeks of SPAM!

mpath

Hey Op, you're not listening. You'll fit right in.

I've been to La Fuye, France, where the make Cyfac frames. End of story.

Wiki it.

laserfj

Suspicious cat thinks shill...

Douglas2012

Basically it looks almost identical to a November Wheelhouse frame, even claimed weights are identical.

Commodus

This is turning into an interesting thread. This douglas guy has three posts, two of which are actually copy and pastes of previous posts in the threads.

laserfj

Do you think I should buy one?

CrimpScampi

The QS3 frame I got from PF has internally routed cables I'll post some pics later.

Steve90068

I know this dude is a shill, but I just can figure out which company he's shilling for

laserfj

The sign of a bad shill.

Really people, if you're going to do it
1) Don't suck at it
2) Make it more entertaining

Cabbage x 5

Neither, Commodus. Honestly, a serious question.

mpath

Then drop your pants and show us your bike. And where do you ride?

My location is as stated, and I'd be happy to show you mine, with today's date.

Bob Dopolina 

Why do these shills think BF members are so stupid? Their Gung Fu is very weak!

Has this type of business practice become the norm? How fricken' sad!

Recently, an on-line competitor has been targeting my company using tactics like this to spread falsehoods and misinformation about our company, our products and our business practices. It pisses me off on a personal note and in the broader sense of what is right and what is wrong.

WTF is wrong with these people?

This forum is experiencing an onslaught of SPAM and gorilla marketing. There needs to be a way for this community to stand up and kick these people in the balls.

PhotoJoe 

This one from another closed thread takes the cake:

At least log out and reply as a different user. It's not THAT hard!

mpath

Bob, one more post and you'll hit 6000. Go for it.

Bob Dopolina 

Really?