Carbon Unit

I am having a debate with my Sunday riding partner on how to get in shape. What I am trying to accomplish is to improve my speed, endurance and overall fitness. A guy in my bike club that has placed 2nd in a pro level 24 hour mountain bike event told me that doing longer rides is what I should be doing. My riding partner wants to do short rides with high intensity. Every ride I do with him is a 15-20 mile time trial.

Thoughts?

patentcad

It's complicated.

echotraveler

...ok ride long...ride shot...ride a lot...

both are good for you...
Long rides are usually more aerobic, consuming more fat...
Short fast rides usually are more anaerobic, consuming more glycogen...

id suggest riding long, youll get faster gradually...

deacon mark

We runners have the same problem. You can get very fit running or cycling long but to get faster you have to practice riding faster. Getting faster does not have so much to do with being fit. Once you build a good base then you can back off the long stuff but you have to keep reminding your body of going long. In short, or long, It is probably better to ride long and very slow and very fast and short. Rest is always needed when you get to a certain level. The tendency to overtrain is a problem and they will hurt speed. Since I run and ride I give up some things to do both. Could ride faster if I did not run and could run faster if I did not ride.

ThinLine

At 53 yrs old, I have not these worries. I am in shape although not riding in pro level races.
I do eat well, excercise daily, ride approx. 250-300 miles a month at a good clip......18-19 mph average and listen to what people have to say.

patentcad

Also, no yodels for you.

Carbon Unit

Well, I am 54 and the guy I am riding with that likes the short fast rides is 60. The pro level guy is older than me by a few years but not sure how old he is. When he wins his races, it is his age category he wins. The particular race he does has pros and none pros in it. The pro guys probably kick his butt.

mkadam68

Speed & endurance are easy: ride longer, ride faster LOL. But, how do you define "overall fitness"? That will determine what else you need to do.

I could give you the physical educator (I am one) answer to general fitness. But it may mean something different to you. Bicycling specific fitness, maybe?

jmX

I think it partially depends on your riding hours and schedule. I do between 5 and 9 hours a week only, so I treat my <2 hour weekday rides as a TT @ near FTP power levels. The endurance ride on the weekend is done at 80% effort or so. With so few hours long and slow doesn't make sense for me....I get plenty of rest off the bike and I'm not trying to burn fat.

Beaker

Pretty much this.

Without knowing your baseline fitness, miles, experience and what holds you back today from reaching your ideal fitness (endurance?, strength? etc) it'll be almost impossible to be useful beyond "ride lots and ride hard". If you're not doing so yet, then I'd consider taking part in faster groups that will push you.

K.Katso

You need to look at your diet, the amount of rest you get, and the rest of your lifestyle in general. There's more to it than just riding more.

hhnngg1

You need to ride as much as possible, and then throw in bursts of dedicated speedwork in there to really capture the speed.

The training volume has a huge effect for most riders, as most bike events are longer than 20 minutes (VO2 max range.) Ride a lot. Most of the midpack Cat3s I know here in Norcal will ride 12-18hrs/week in season.

dnuzzomueller

Dedication, pain threshold, competitive drive, and EPO.

Homebrew01

"physically fit" is a vague phrase.

Might be a good idea to determine what YOUR goals are, then you can seek more specific advice.

Carbon Unit

Agreed, physically fit is vague. What I am trying do is maintain maybe 80% power output for about 30 mile ride. The problem I am having now is running out of energy after a dozen or so miles and then I get dropped. I would like to maintain this level of output for about twice as long as I can now. I was thinking that one long ride, 40-60 miles a week, and then interval training might be a good training technique for helping me maintain this level of output.

Beaker

80% ftp?

achoo

Riding hard all the time doesn't work for most people. At best, the guy riding a hard 15-20 miles will get really good at riding hard for 15-20 miles. At worst, he'll plateau at a mediocre level and never get any better.

I tried the "ride hard all the time" approach. My FTP plateaued at 240W or so about a year ago, and I rode my ass off last summer, fall, and winter trying to get it higher without success. Gave up in Jan and hired a coach. I'd guess my FTP now is 280W or so, and my training volume is down from 15-20 hrs every week to about 10-12 at most with occasional 5-hour weeks tossed in, with hard rides only 1-3 times per week, mostly just once so far.

Carbon Unit

Ftp = File Transfer Protocol or Feel the pain? You probably mean Feel the pain.

Carbon Unit

What I am trying to do is get fast enough so that I can hang with the guy that I ride with on Sundays. I can hang with him for about half of the ride, then I get dropped. He is older than me but smaller and about 25 pounds lighter. I have to hear insults from him when I finally catch him at the coffee stop. I have had a medical condition that has restricted my oxygen levels that it has been fixed and I have been seeing improvements in my speed and endurance.

tony2v

or https://home.trainingpeaks.com/articl...old-power.aspx

jmX

All I can say is so far it has worked for me. 80% of my rides are 74 minute rides 26mi in length, yet on my first double century my pace would have put me in the top 5% if I hadn't wasted an hour at a pit stop. You may be right in that FTP will stall at some point, but it's pretty established that 2x20min @ ftp or 1x60 at/near FTP are some of best workouts you can do, and in essence thats what my short/hard daily workouts end up being. My average week is 6 hours on the bike.

caloso

FTP = functional threshold power. Roughly speaking the highest average power you can maintain for an hour.

DGlenday

1). Ride long distances - but ride them hard.

2). Intersperse that with short rides, doing them absolutely as fast as you can.

3). Do interval training - particularly on hills.

4). Cross-train. Many here will disagree with me, and insist that you only need to focus on the bike. They will be wrong .
- Hit the gym, hard and often, with a focus on legs and core.
- Find another tough activity. E.g. I do mountain-hiking - and take long, tough hikes as fast as I can. You'll be amazed at how well it complements cycling. I suspect that running will also be an excellent complement to cycling.

patentcad

Base miles. Intervals. Hills.














EPO.

Carbon Unit

Thanks, this is good advice. I am working out at the gym four days per week but haven't started back on weights and core since having surgery. I am doing two spin classes per week and doing intervals during the classes. The next addition to my workouts will be an ongoing boot camp that takes place on Monday and Friday.

I will also use one day per week to to do leg exercises.