dmcdmc

zero loss is just SRAM jargon for the shift being made when you push the shifter, rather than push and release.

An analogy is if you click down a mouse button but dont release it, the click isn't completed. Zero loss means the shift is made on contact...with the click, not when you release the lever. Small difference but noticeable if you care about things like that.

btw all sram groups have zero loss on the front shifter, only red has it in the rear shifter...the tech is in the shifter, not in the derailleurs. only diff between apex, rival, force and red is weight...except for the rear red shifter which has the zero loss.

in the end it comes down what you're used to.

ColinL

same here-- XL gloves, using little sram hoods anyway.

the next-generation sram stuff is going to larger hoods. I haven't tried the 2012 Red yet, though. (who has??)

Seattle Forrest

Ultegra is more than a little bit heavier ... but I can shift between the chain rings when I want to.

motorthings

I had always heard the Zero Loss referred to the fact that the shifting action happened as soon as the lever travel started, without an empty phase of the travel. The force (at least the older force) and rival shifters don't have zero loss, so the paddle moves in further before causing anything, where the Red with Zero Loss causes action immediately, without the empty travel.

adriano 

nope, but its not really necessary in the back. its nice in front.

Snapperhead

Have both. I prefer the comfort of the Red hoods and the double-tap shifting to the Ultegra. That being said, by Red front derailleur is a bit delicate and I will be replacing it with the Force version soon.

I'm also considering swapping out my Ultegra on my Specialized with a Force group.

canam73

You've been badly mis-informed. It's actually a double expensive Tiagra.

TrojanHorse

Ultegra is more than a pound heavier than red - https://totalcycling.com/component-weights.html

My current bike is all force except for the brifters and yeah, the zero loss is nice. It's not dramatic and mandatory but it's nice.

Ultegra is also very nice, it's not like if you get one bike the other will be a dog because it has brand B drive train components.

You would think that somebody interested in shelling out that much money on a bike would have a better idea what he wanted though.

milkbaby

I agree with the 2 folks quoted above.

The biggest differences (to me):
1) Double-tap versus STI - Red is great on rear upshifts (releasing cable) but the double-tap sucks on downshifts (pulling cable to easier gear/cog), IMHO. Ultegra is not as fast on the upshifts but better on the downshifts. When tired, it's easy for me to mis-shift to a harder gear on Red, which is absolutely the last thing I want when I'm at my limit and need to spin an easier gear.
2) Hood ergonomics are different between the two. They are both okay by me, but some people are more sensitive. Also, the Ultegra for some reason has an open area on the inside of the hoods where sweat and grit could conceivably go up into the internals. I switch to Hudz hood covers that have a flap that sorta block that opening, though I really only switched because I wanted a different color.
3) I have the old Red Ti FD, so the front shifting is noticeably lower quality than Ultegra which is pure buttah in comparison.
4) Weight - Red is lighter, but darned if I could really tell.

bikepro

It would make more sense to compate SRAM Red to the DuraAce group -- they are at the same level. I've had DuraAce and now have SRAM Red and much prefer the Red. In the past the Red has had problems with the Ti version of the FD not being stiff enough. SRAMS latest group has an even more improved FD.

Mansram01

Ultegra is nice but Sram Red is better overall. I like the way the hoods feel, the shift paddles, the lighter weight, zero loss, etc. I'd have to agree that it's not an even comparison. Red is louder than Ultegra though but I wouldn't swap it for the world.

Talewinds

Funny how these things are SO subjective. I've been building a TON of SRAM bikes lately (and inevitably ride them a lot as a result) and was finally able to ride my own Ultegra equipped bike the other night, it was a revelation! It's amazing how when you've ridden SRAM for a while and then go ride a good quality Shimano group just how much better it feels.
Nobody ever likes my car analogies, but SRAM is like a Subaru Impreza, chintzy but very effective.
I would also say it's not even a comparison, the margin between the tactile quality of Red and Ultegra is wide, Ultegra is superior.
Red is WAAAAAY light, but if I were building a weenie bike I'd be doing some custom spec stuff like chainrings and cranks and other more significant weight reducing components anyway.

dayday82

I switched from Shimano to Sram and I now I don't think I could ever go back to Shimano. Crisper, quicker, lighter is how I would describe it. Ultegra vs Red is not even a comparison. I think Rival vs Ultegra is more on point. I would even take Apex over Ultegra.

Mansram01

Funny that you mention the Subaru comment. I feel that Ultegra is like a Toyota Corolla. Well built, quiet but not very exciting. This isn't to demean Ultegra but given the limited features and hefty weight, it's hardly a comparison.

TrojanHorse

It is? The shifting? or something else.

To me the only really loud component on my bike is the flipping hub, but that's obviously SRAM/Shimano agnostic since they're compatible.

Mansram01

I find the cassette to be loud and clunky when changing gears but not a deal killer.

Andy Somnifac 

I have 105 (5700), Ultegra (6600), and Red. They all more than get the job done. The Shimano stuff feels a bit more "refined", but if I have to choose from the 3, I go with Red. I've begun racing, and the double tap and zero loss are great in that situation. Everything is just instant, and shifting either direction from the drops, even with winter gloves on, is great without having to worry about not hitting both levers. I definitely had a problem with shifting during a sprint in winter gloves with Ultegra and 105. Lobster claw gloves made it difficult.

adriano 

sram abruptly changes the resistance felt at the pedals. shimano smoothly.

sijray21

Started on Ultegra 6600 levers and I liked them a lot. I switched to GORE cables and I loved them. I then tried Rival and loved that even more. I sold the bike with the Ultegra and I now have two bikes with rival/force combinations.

It's really a preference. Go ride them and see for yourself. I found the shimano to be more comfortable, although I find the larger hoods to be a bit bulky. The smaller SRAM hoods can be moved on the drops to have a better fit for riders seeking more support. There is a functional difference in the red shifters when compared to rival (i can't say anything for force shifters). The Red has no play in the shifts; it's immediate. The rival shifters have a little play. It's not a huge deal, but if you can get a set of Red for less than retail i'd go for it, that is if you prefer the double-tap mechanism.