Bike friendly car
06-20-12, 09:25 AM
#151
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^thanks for the correction. yup AWD will have understeer.
thats what I meant though... if someone is specifically wanting a rear wheel drive car... then that person wants that feeling of having the power at the rear.
thats what I meant though... if someone is specifically wanting a rear wheel drive car... then that person wants that feeling of having the power at the rear.
06-20-12, 09:30 AM
#152
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^thats outstanding MPGs.... I'm currently at 10k miles on my JSW TDi and have a tough time getting over 45MPG (unless I really just keep it at 65mph on the highway).
with the roof rack and thule carriers that hold the whole bike - i can get high 30's but I'm usually driving in heavy weekend/vacation traffic.
did you experience a jump in MPGs after a certain mileage (like after the 10k/20k mark) or did you always have that high of MPGs from the beginning?
with the roof rack and thule carriers that hold the whole bike - i can get high 30's but I'm usually driving in heavy weekend/vacation traffic.
did you experience a jump in MPGs after a certain mileage (like after the 10k/20k mark) or did you always have that high of MPGs from the beginning?
06-20-12, 10:25 AM
#154
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I know this is splitting hairs here; but while it's generally true, it really depends on the power split and the system for the AWD system. Typically it can be fine-tuned by the mfgr depending on what driving characteristics they want to impart on the consumer. Quite often, AWD systems are front biased or even exhibit a 50/50 split. To that point, you get understeer with lift-off/snap oversteer at the handling limit. BMW (and some other mfgrs) has a rear biased AWD system with a 33/66 F-R split will impart a rear bias and a tendancy to oversteer at the handling limit.
06-20-12, 11:02 AM
#155
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One thing that makes driving a RWD aggressively more fun than a FWD is the ability to push the rear end out abit. Mild, controllable, oversteer is a good thing.
And the reason I mentioned the A7 in the first place is that it's a competitor to the BMW Gran Tourismo.
And the reason I mentioned the A7 in the first place is that it's a competitor to the BMW Gran Tourismo.
I really like the A7 and would consider one in the future if it fits my needs at the time.
06-20-12, 11:12 AM
#156
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FWD, RWD and AWD are all susceptible to both understeer and oversteer. All modern road cars (including Porsches & BMWs) are set up to understeer because it's far safer for the front wheels to break free than rear wheels. Typically, however, RWD's are more prone to oversteer and FWD are more prone to understeer.
To clarify my question, by extended hatchback, I'm not looking for a hatchback sedan like the 5-series GT or A7 (although that's a freakin gorgeous car!). Looking for something more like the Audi A3, BMW 135 3/5-door (in Europe), Impreza 5-door or Mazda3 5-door. Just looking for one with RWD.
To clarify my question, by extended hatchback, I'm not looking for a hatchback sedan like the 5-series GT or A7 (although that's a freakin gorgeous car!). Looking for something more like the Audi A3, BMW 135 3/5-door (in Europe), Impreza 5-door or Mazda3 5-door. Just looking for one with RWD.
06-20-12, 11:41 AM
#157
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FWD, RWD and AWD are all susceptible to both understeer and oversteer. All modern road cars (including Porsches & BMWs) are set up to understeer because it's far safer for the front wheels to break free than rear wheels. Typically, however, RWD's are more prone to oversteer and FWD are more prone to understeer.
To clarify my question, by extended hatchback, I'm not looking for a hatchback sedan like the 5-series GT or A7 (although that's a freakin gorgeous car!). Looking for something more like the Audi A3, BMW 135 3/5-door (in Europe), Impreza 5-door or Mazda3 5-door. Just looking for one with RWD.
To clarify my question, by extended hatchback, I'm not looking for a hatchback sedan like the 5-series GT or A7 (although that's a freakin gorgeous car!). Looking for something more like the Audi A3, BMW 135 3/5-door (in Europe), Impreza 5-door or Mazda3 5-door. Just looking for one with RWD.
06-20-12, 11:56 AM
#158
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FWD, RWD and AWD are all susceptible to both understeer and oversteer. All modern road cars (including Porsches & BMWs) are set up to understeer because it's far safer for the front wheels to break free than rear wheels. Typically, however, RWD's are more prone to oversteer and FWD are more prone to understeer.
And I love my 2010 Audi A4 2.0t. With the roof rack and a bike on top I still get 30mpg highway. And man is it sexy and a dream to ride in. Going back to the other conversation, it understeers like mad though. I need to add myself a larger rear sway at some point.
06-20-12, 12:09 PM
#159
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^thats outstanding MPGs.... I'm currently at 10k miles on my JSW TDi and have a tough time getting over 45MPG (unless I really just keep it at 65mph on the highway).
with the roof rack and thule carriers that hold the whole bike - i can get high 30's but I'm usually driving in heavy weekend/vacation traffic.
did you experience a jump in MPGs after a certain mileage (like after the 10k/20k mark) or did you always have that high of MPGs from the beginning?
with the roof rack and thule carriers that hold the whole bike - i can get high 30's but I'm usually driving in heavy weekend/vacation traffic.
did you experience a jump in MPGs after a certain mileage (like after the 10k/20k mark) or did you always have that high of MPGs from the beginning?
The Golf I got just as race season ended and it got cold. I mainly drove it to/from work (3 miles each way) and it basically got 36-38 mpg. Now it's a bit better.
I read that the break in oil, meant to stay in for 10k miles (!!!!), helps seat the piston rings. The new break in oil is 6k or something. Anyway on the 2010 at least the seals get better until about 50-60k miles, i.e. compression tests will show higher pressure.
For us we haven't seen change in mileage though, at least not so that we notice. It's more condition based, like if it's windy or no traffic (worst case) or not windy or heavy traffic (best case).
Cruise control is actually less efficient than a stop/go type power style of driving. The best mileage comes from a "punch and coast" type of driving, where you accelerate 100% then coast. If you think about it the worst mileage you can get is 0 mpg. The best is infinity (if you coast with the engine off). Hypermilers will accelerate then turn off the engine, repeat ad nauseum. For me I used to do a lot of high gear throttle (accelerating about 5 mph from say 70 or so), coast in neutral to slow 5 mph, repeat. Doing this I could get 30-35+ mpg on long trips in a 350Z (rated 21/26), with 30-33 mpg being the norm.
You can try this if you have a manual and a trip mileage computer thing in the car. It's amazing how much better mileage you get when you do a punch/coast type drive.
I don't do it much now because it's kind of a pain. Also I thought about how much a thrust bearing costs for a clutch (or the labor to install one anyway). I'll do this if I'm driving solo and not in a rush.
I tried engine off coasting once and decided it's too risky for me. I want all the controls and such to respond as I expect if there's an emergency.
06-20-12, 01:26 PM
#160
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Cruise control is actually less efficient than a stop/go type power style of driving. The best mileage comes from a "punch and coast" type of driving, where you accelerate 100% then coast. If you think about it the worst mileage you can get is 0 mpg. The best is infinity (if you coast with the engine off). Hypermilers will accelerate then turn off the engine, repeat ad nauseum. For me I used to do a lot of high gear throttle (accelerating about 5 mph from say 70 or so), coast in neutral to slow 5 mph, repeat. Doing this I could get 30-35+ mpg on long trips in a 350Z (rated 21/26), with 30-33 mpg being the norm.
You can try this if you have a manual and a trip mileage computer thing in the car. It's amazing how much better mileage you get when you do a punch/coast type drive.
I don't do it much now because it's kind of a pain. Also I thought about how much a thrust bearing costs for a clutch (or the labor to install one anyway). I'll do this if I'm driving solo and not in a rush.
I tried engine off coasting once and decided it's too risky for me. I want all the controls and such to respond as I expect if there's an emergency.
You can try this if you have a manual and a trip mileage computer thing in the car. It's amazing how much better mileage you get when you do a punch/coast type drive.
I don't do it much now because it's kind of a pain. Also I thought about how much a thrust bearing costs for a clutch (or the labor to install one anyway). I'll do this if I'm driving solo and not in a rush.
I tried engine off coasting once and decided it's too risky for me. I want all the controls and such to respond as I expect if there's an emergency.
06-20-12, 02:56 PM
#161
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On a flat road, cruise is now computer controlled, not vacuum operated, and combined with throttle by wire it's incredibly efficient. When paired with a computer controlled transmission it's even better. SOME cars also have hill detection and as you go up a grade it will adjust more aggressively so you don't lose too much momentum once it's too late. The best mpg I was able to get in a previous car was by adding a few mph with the accel button while going down every hill and hitting decel at key moments up hill (before the car chose to unlock the torque convertor, or downshift). If I had a cruise control with a 'wobble range' I'd be a happy camper. Even more efficient is a constant load engine cruise setup, but those don't regulate speed as needed, so a wobble range would have to be applied on top for high and low limits that straddle the desired setpoint.
And realistically you can't have everyone flooring it all over the place in bursts. Yes theoretically, but no in the real-world. Also, most cars also go into open-loop (they ignore oxygen sensor data) at high rpm and load so they are actually LESS efficient than they are at part-throttle. Well tuned aftermarket engine management systems use wide-rage (wideband) oxygen sensors to keep track and constantly adjust at all times and you can actually get better gas mileage using one (in my current car especially).
BUT things you can do:
- COAST COAST COAST IN GEAR - it's called engine overrun - throttle input is less than what would actually push the car. Most cars these days will completely shut off fuel injection when coasting at a high enough throttle/actual differential. It's the best free distance you will travel and from personal observance, women are either on the gas or brake, never in between. If you have a manual trans, hit the brake a little so you don't slow a ton w/o brake lights, you'll be at fault for a rear end if you do it at the wrong moment.
- When you accelerate, keep your foot still, don't continually increase pressure.
- Drive so you have to hit the brakes less, look ahead, be happy with the lane you're in.
- Plan trips in loops, and go to the farthest location first so your engine can gain and store the heat in the fluids.
- Having those pieces of plastic under your car intact is GOOD, also channels air to critical components for proper cooling.
- The usual: tire pressure, ALIGNMENT, remove roof racks, minimize AC use (check your manual, sometimes it'll turn on in certain vent modes without telling you).
/carnerd
And realistically you can't have everyone flooring it all over the place in bursts. Yes theoretically, but no in the real-world. Also, most cars also go into open-loop (they ignore oxygen sensor data) at high rpm and load so they are actually LESS efficient than they are at part-throttle. Well tuned aftermarket engine management systems use wide-rage (wideband) oxygen sensors to keep track and constantly adjust at all times and you can actually get better gas mileage using one (in my current car especially).
BUT things you can do:
- COAST COAST COAST IN GEAR - it's called engine overrun - throttle input is less than what would actually push the car. Most cars these days will completely shut off fuel injection when coasting at a high enough throttle/actual differential. It's the best free distance you will travel and from personal observance, women are either on the gas or brake, never in between. If you have a manual trans, hit the brake a little so you don't slow a ton w/o brake lights, you'll be at fault for a rear end if you do it at the wrong moment.
- When you accelerate, keep your foot still, don't continually increase pressure.
- Drive so you have to hit the brakes less, look ahead, be happy with the lane you're in.
- Plan trips in loops, and go to the farthest location first so your engine can gain and store the heat in the fluids.
- Having those pieces of plastic under your car intact is GOOD, also channels air to critical components for proper cooling.
- The usual: tire pressure, ALIGNMENT, remove roof racks, minimize AC use (check your manual, sometimes it'll turn on in certain vent modes without telling you).
/carnerd
06-20-12, 03:03 PM
#162
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On a flat road, cruise is now computer controlled, not vacuum operated, and combined with throttle by wire it's incredibly efficient. When paired with a computer controlled transmission it's even better. SOME cars also have hill detection and as you go up a grade it will adjust more aggressively so you don't lose too much momentum once it's too late.
Porsche is working on taking adaptive cruise control to a whole new level, where it will map your course, and drive it, controlling the throttle, takining into account terrain and road conditions to maximize fuel economy. It's called ACC Innodrive.
https://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/28/2...o-big-brother/
I was ok with PDK, but this may be just a step too far.
I think it's going to end up being called I NO DRIVE.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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06-20-12, 07:09 PM
#164
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BUT things you can do:
- COAST COAST COAST IN GEAR - it's called engine overrun - throttle input is less than what would actually push the car. Most cars these days will completely shut off fuel injection when coasting at a high enough throttle/actual differential. It's the best free distance you will travel and from personal observance, women are either on the gas or brake, never in between. If you have a manual trans, hit the brake a little so you don't slow a ton w/o brake lights, you'll be at fault for a rear end if you do it at the wrong moment.
- When you accelerate, keep your foot still, don't continually increase pressure.
- Drive so you have to hit the brakes less, look ahead, be happy with the lane you're in.
- Plan trips in loops, and go to the farthest location first so your engine can gain and store the heat in the fluids.
- Having those pieces of plastic under your car intact is GOOD, also channels air to critical components for proper cooling.
- The usual: tire pressure, ALIGNMENT, remove roof racks, minimize AC use (check your manual, sometimes it'll turn on in certain vent modes without telling you).
- COAST COAST COAST IN GEAR - it's called engine overrun - throttle input is less than what would actually push the car. Most cars these days will completely shut off fuel injection when coasting at a high enough throttle/actual differential. It's the best free distance you will travel and from personal observance, women are either on the gas or brake, never in between. If you have a manual trans, hit the brake a little so you don't slow a ton w/o brake lights, you'll be at fault for a rear end if you do it at the wrong moment.
- When you accelerate, keep your foot still, don't continually increase pressure.
- Drive so you have to hit the brakes less, look ahead, be happy with the lane you're in.
- Plan trips in loops, and go to the farthest location first so your engine can gain and store the heat in the fluids.
- Having those pieces of plastic under your car intact is GOOD, also channels air to critical components for proper cooling.
- The usual: tire pressure, ALIGNMENT, remove roof racks, minimize AC use (check your manual, sometimes it'll turn on in certain vent modes without telling you).
Use your cycling skills to draft behind large objects. I've increased by MPG considerably on long trips just by cruising behind an 18-wheeler.
06-20-12, 08:55 PM
#166
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FWD, RWD and AWD are all susceptible to both understeer and oversteer. All modern road cars (including Porsches & BMWs) are set up to understeer because it's far safer for the front wheels to break free than rear wheels. Typically, however, RWD's are more prone to oversteer and FWD are more prone to understeer.
To clarify my question, by extended hatchback, I'm not looking for a hatchback sedan like the 5-series GT or A7 (although that's a freakin gorgeous car!). Looking for something more like the Audi A3, BMW 135 3/5-door (in Europe), Impreza 5-door or Mazda3 5-door. Just looking for one with RWD.
To clarify my question, by extended hatchback, I'm not looking for a hatchback sedan like the 5-series GT or A7 (although that's a freakin gorgeous car!). Looking for something more like the Audi A3, BMW 135 3/5-door (in Europe), Impreza 5-door or Mazda3 5-door. Just looking for one with RWD.
You are correct that understeer is the preference since car mfgrs are afraid of litigation and the notion of snap oversteer (thanks Ralph Nadar!). There currently is no RWD hatchback sold in the US at this moment (with the exception of the smart fortwo). The closest you will probably get to what you want is a 3 series wagon, or you can go to mexico and pick up a 1 series (https://www.bmw.com.mx/mx/es/newvehic...oom/index.html). Get it soon, since those are rumored to go FWD in the next iteration coming out this year.
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06-20-12, 10:13 PM
#167
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06-21-12, 06:57 AM
#169
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I'd rather have Beaker's 328 wagon. Essentially the same car, but lighter and lower. Unless you actually need to go off road.
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06-21-12, 07:12 AM
#170
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I can barely take off in 2nd gear if you were to take off in 5th it would stall.
06-21-12, 08:03 AM
#171
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At a set vehicle speed, the lowest gear is the least load, but also does the least work. You gotta balance things like engine torque output vs desired speed vs vehicle weight to determine which gear is best in a given situation.
06-21-12, 11:10 AM
#172
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As I think I posted earlier in this thread - I love my 328i wagon. It's got a sports package so the suspension is nice and taught and it handles like a dream. Honestly, I thought about buying the gorgeous A4 avant, but just couldn't pass up that I6 3.0 that's in the BMW. That engine is so smooth. Yes, there are faster cars, but it swallows the bike whole without removing any wheels and gets me ~25mpg highway.
My next car will continue to be a AWD turbo 4 wagon; and the next 328xi will actually follow that format. Good thing ,since Subaru has decided to stop selling AWD Turbo 4 wagons in the US.
The subaru legacy DiT (295bhp) wagon is a beautiful piece of work though.
06-21-12, 11:50 AM
#174
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06-21-12, 11:50 AM
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