LowCel 

No, you should not peel off at the same time. What you can do though, and is generally accepted, is wait for him to fall back a little then you can peel off right afterwards. Just give him time to clear your bike. You do not want to stay behind him and peel off together, that is asking for trouble. Just let the group know that you are struggling to hang on and you don't have the power to take a pull.

LowCel 

I had the same thought. Generally when I am giving up a pull I am hurting. Not the best time to take my hands off the bar. What is really funny is how hard some people slap their hip. I swear they leave red marks from it.

mmmdonuts

I think it's more of a judgement call. If you can peel off together at the same pace that would be better than slowing everyone down if you can't pull through. The next step would be to sit on the back and not rotate if the pace is too high. Again, I think it depends on the situation.

Homebrew01

Then, if you can't handle pulling, don't rotate to the front. Sit on the back and when guys rotate to the back, let them know you are leaving a gap for them to slot in front of you.

EdIsMe

In our groups, giving some sort of signal when pulling off the lead has been discussed as mandatory. The elbow flick is the suggested one to use, as it allows the person signalling to maintain both hands on the handlebars while still showing a highly visible signal. We don't complain when someone uses a different signal, and it's never been so obscure that the message didn't get across anyway. I've seen the elbow flick, arm wave, pass through signal, hand on hip, fist on hip, arm wave and hip punch, overhand wave, etc. Also, our groups consist of riders ranging in skill level from absolute novice to cat 1-2,3,4,5 racer to cycling veteran and when really working hard, not everyone in the group will be able to perform well in the lead. Clear signalling helps make those situations much safer.

On another note: given the disparity between skill level and age of our diverse group of riders, we suggest no set pull duration, and allow the leader to pull (while maintaining the pace of the group) as long as he or she would like. Also, two riders pulling off at the same time is not something we encourage, but it happens and hasn't caused any problems yet.

Bob Dopolina 

WTF is this hip slapping stuff? It's new to me.

If you are just hanging on you shouldn't ever find yourself at the front. You should hang at the back and tell riders dropping back 'in' while leaving about half a bike length gap for them to slide into.

topflightpro

Yes, sort of. Ideally, if you are struggling, you should pull off before you are the second rider - for example, when you are third or fourth, and the guy on the front slides off, rather than moving into the second or third position, you drop behind the first guy and slide back with him. This is a fairly common move by weaker riders on hammer rides. It enables the weaker rider to sit in longer and learn how to ride in a field, but without wearing him or herself out on the front.

Or as Bob said, you can just hang on to the back.

And in racing, at least in lower cat crits, it is common for guys to go to the front and hammer until they are almost blown. Then they try to pull off by swinging wide and the field follows. Sometimes that elbow flick is needed to let the field know they are blown.

Bob Ross

Ha! I find it annoying when people *don't* do it on group rides

...mostly because the alternatives often seem to lead to more confusion. I've been on a number of rides where the leader pulled off the front without making a gesture of any sort, without any verbal announcement, and without really making the move particularly decisive...so the second wheel just dutifully followed to the left! (ostensibly presuming the lead rider was just steering the line past an obstacle)

But my real pet peeve is that polite (sic) little wave-of-the-hand gesture when pulling off, that little genteel wave that says "Come along, pass me!" Drives me bat-schidt. We continually stress to riders new to group cycling that you don't surge off the front when the rider in front of you pulls off, that you maintain/continue, that it's bad form to go around the rider pulling off, and that it's that pulling-off rider's obligation to get out of the way of the paceline rather than the paceline's obligation to get past the guy who just pulled off... and then what do we do? We completely un-do all that good advice by taunting the second wheel with that little "come along, now pass me!" gesture. FML.

Elbow flick wins by virtue of being impossible to mistake for any other gesture. (Unless you're all dancing to the Funky Chicken.)

rkwaki

rb I wish it were that easy - when they get on my wheel they won't get off. Saturday I used the elbow flick, the waving hand, sat up to take a drink, yellow line violation, turned around and said come on you lazy b@stards...

Bob Dopolina 

Beat me to it.

DropDeadFred

funniest sh*t sometimes is watching when somebody pulls off the front and the guy behind him follows...it's always good for a lol

rkwaki

As any married man would know this is a very frustrating syndrome...

Bob Ross

Brilliantly succinct. I'm gonna use that line, thanks.

EdIsMe

In a big group I don't mind this practice at all. However, in a small group, it can be quite frustrating. Just a few days ago I was riding home from a group ride along with two others from the group and while guy 1 was putting in a good bit of work, guy 2 would just sit back as we rotated. I was pulling a bit longer than normal to keep the momentum of the group going (I was also the youngest in the group of 3) and guy 1 would pull as long as he could and let me take over... all while guy 2 was just sitting back and letting us work.

Moral of the story: If your group is so small that even a very brief pull would help the group, give it your all for a couple seconds instead of letting the others beat themselves up.

rkwaki

I agree with this statement with one caveat - if you say something at the beginning of the ride that you just aren't strong enough to do any work then I am ok with that just don't attack at any point of the ride or I'll bury you.

DropDeadFred

not until you inherit the line

ultraman6970

This thing changes from country to country because i have seen the elbow, get both hands open, get one hand open... In general as long it is a silent type of sign is pretty much understood what is the signal about. People even signs when they will stand over the pedals so the guy in the back dont get stuck with an overlapped wheel calling for an accident for him and the guys behind.

Bob Dopolina 

Less experienced riders signal too much. More experienced riders understand what is going on and require far fewer 'signals'.

I am sometimes amused when I ride with a 'club' (social ride) at how much chatter goes on and how many hand signals I see. It is useful for the group but more info than I need. I actually have to check myself and pass on signals I wouldn't normally bother with because I know riders behind me are expecting it. This varies from group to group and is often the most stressful part of the ride for me.

mkadam68

I'm assuming this was a genuine post and not sarcasm.

If the group you're with is riding a paceline, especially a fast paceline, don't do this.

Doing this leaves gaps in the paceline, and PO's the guys behind you who now have to accelerate & close that gap. You cost them unnecessary energy. Doing this screams "NEWBIE!" They won't want you riding with them for long.

The only acceptable moves if you're a weaker rider and might get blown, is to sit at the back or take shorter pulls.

pallen

That's exactly what I was referring to. I've seen that a lot more than I've seen people missing the signal. If you're the leader and you move over and the line doesn't go by, you need to back off a little. If the whole group is suffering, you really need to back off. If its just the guy behind you, he's not going to be able to peel off and get out of the way until you give him the space. Theoretically the guy who inherits the front shouldn't really have to do anything - just hold the line and hold the pace and things should transition smoothly along as the lead peels off and starts dropping slowly back. The effort will go up a bit due to fighting the wind, but that's it.

DropDeadFred

omg yes. I did a century this weekend and at the start this lady from another club was *****ing because my group was riding up and didn't announce and signal every effing thing possible. To me it shows how noobish their club behaves...pointing out every little bump and shouting means you aren't riding as hard as you could be and that your mind is constantly focused on the wrong thing. IMO. I trust the guy in front of me to take the line that is safest and follow his wheel tightly, usually we only signal or shout if there a large hazard or gravel that could be dangerous. I can't stand riding around groups that just act unsafe...

https://youtu.be/bN7FuAm7mAA

this is that same group I found they posted a video

this is the route, https://connect.garmin.com/activity/167113380

the fact that the guy zipped his shirt open 5 miles in and you can see one of them eating a gu on a 30 miles ride is absurd.

Bob Dopolina 

Been there.

I've found it best just to do what the group expects so things run smoothly for all. It's fricken' exhausting though.

Inertianinja

just remember. IT'S NOT A TURN SIGNAL.
flick elbow, move to the opposite side.
i have been yelled at by my coach many times for this.

Nachoman

It's a fine line to walk. I ride with a guy that will yell at you if you signal too little AND too much.

Bob Dopolina 

We all have our foibles.

Mine's being too much of an elitest dick but I've got signalling down pretty well.