abstractform20

thinking about maybe doing a build in a few months...

if so, can you provide your experience with the following included:

-drilling (ex. 20h, 24h, etc)

-tire model

-tire size and psi

-other wheels+tires you have used before

KoYak

I own the A23 factory built (Comp Build) https://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=749.

Comp Build:
24 spoke radial laced front
28 spoke 2 cross laced rear
DT Competition double butted spokes and DT brass nipples
1,580g
Velocity race Hubs.

Nice solid wheels at 1580 grams, not super light but lighter than my previous wheelset, Aksiums. Riding Conti Grand prix 25mm. the wheel / tire combination is very smooth. I weigh 188 lbs and run 90/95 psi F/R. about 1000 miles and not a single wobble.

I also own a custom set built with Stan's Notubes alpha 340, cxrays, 24/28 F/R, velocity race hubs. not exactly apples to apples, the stan's no tubes set probably weighs under 1300 grams. Stan's is super quick accelerating, climbing wheels, but also not as wobble resistant, these wheels have been trued once and touched up one other time in the first 250 miles or s but they have stayed true for the last 400 miles or so. this wheel set is no where as smooth with same tube tire combo as the A23. Currently riding tubeless on the stan's and makes this wheelset noticeable smoother.

Very impressed with the strength and smooth ride of these A23 wheels. I will be converting to tubeless in the next week or two. Looking forward to the extra, extra smooth ride.

canam73

I've been riding a set of A23s with 24/28h for a year. They have held up well with the only truing required after a crash. Mine had a slight pulse from the seam for about the first 200 miles but it has smoothed out and is gone. I use them with 23mm GP4000s tires at 90/100 psi and I've weight 175-185 while I've had them. Zero pinch flats and I live in the frost heave zone and roads can be lousy. That is the same pressure I have been running 25mm tires on standard (19-20mm) rims. I don't know about the more aero or reduced RR claims, but I do find them to have better handling on rough surfaces especially in the corners. I have also gotten my best mileage from a GP4000s on the rear, but my test case so far is 1 tire so maybe I just got lucky.

I recently built up a second set of similar wheels using the bikehubstore wide rim: https://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/162.htm but I haven't had a chance to ride them yet. In comparison my A23s averaged 445g while the BHS were 475g. The BHS has one of the tallest brake tracks I have seen on a road rim, but the A23's is not short so I don't know if that is a concern. The BHS rims do seem to have very well mated seams, and I actually have 2 pairs of them to look at. I'm guessing it's made by Kinlin but I don't know that. It also seems to be what is used in the Boyd Vitesse.

abstractform20

i like what im hearing...pics/porn?

byte_speed

I wanted some inexpensive but light weight everyday wheels and I wanted to try a wider rim.
I settled on A23's laced to Superlight Hubs (bikehubstore.com)
Sapim Laser spokes.
24 single cross front (not laced); 28 hole rear 2 cross both sides.
Black hubs & wheels, silver spokes, red alloy nipples.

I don't have scales but the advertised weight was about 1400 grams without skewers or tape.
With a few hundred miles on the wheels, I like them. The ride is real nice if I get the pressure right - I try to run about 95 psi front and 105 psi rear & weigh in about 177 lb. I've got 23 mm Michelin Lithion tires on them right now. These tires are a little heavier, but I like the way they ride and the price is good. I plan on going to Pro Race soon to take advantage of the lighter wheels.

abstractform20

oh, and those BHS rims looks pretty sweet. who makes them? kinlin???

STP

I ride A23's as backups to my tubular Major Toms. Built both at 32h laced to 105 hubs for cyclocross. My tires choices are only going to be cross related. Sorry, no road information. As an aside, through two cross seasons, they have been bombproof and I've beat on them pretty good. I used the 32h drilling because of their use, not because of my weight. I'm only 155 pounds.

Clipped_in

They're not much to look at. Not bad, but not awe inspiring in appearance. However they perform really well - I like 'em. I'm 6'-3 190# and I do a lot of climbing so I need a sturdy build.
24-2x front
28-3x back
DT Comp spokes w/ brass nipples
Velocity Race hubs
Michelin Krylium Carbon 23mm tires 100psi-F 105psi-R
Plenty lightweight for an everyday wheel with a very solid feel. I've put ~3k miles on them in the past 5 months and they are going strong. I did have one pinch flat earlier this year, but that was from a direct hit on a chunk of concrete my leadout man didn't point out. The tube didn't like it but the wheel didn't even flinch.

canam73

Pics as requested:

BHS C472W with BHS 85g Wide Hub, 24h 2x with Sapim Race/Sapim Brass nipples:


A23 with White Industries H2, 24h 2x with DT Comp/DT brass nipples:


BHS brake track/seam:


A23 brake track/seam


The A23 set was originally built to go on my Waterford, but I also had just built up a budget aluminum racer and hadn't figured out wheels so I put them on. This spring I decided to build some wheels for the AL so I could put the A23s where they belong and came across the BHS rim. Since the wides were working well with the AL frame I decided to basically rebuild the same wheels but with cheaper hubs.

Bobsled

I have some PSIMET built 20/24s. Riding Conti 4000S 23s. I don't have a lot of miles on then but I do like them plus they're PSIMETs.

Clipped_in

BHS seems like a nice rim, but in my mind with the A23 being as stiff as it is why would you want the extra weight of the BHS's deeper profile? It isn't deep enough to offer an aero benefit. I guess you could go to a lower spoke count for a different appearance if that's important to you, but I can't see a performance advantage. No?

canam73

I couldn't care less about the weight possibly slowing me down. I don't expect to ever notice an aero difference, either. And for my use I don't want less spokes.

I built them to be everyday wheels so if the extra weight gives me even smidge more durability I'll consider it worth it. And now I can see for myself how each of them hold up under my weight and on my roads.

Psimet2001 

That "BHS" rim is a Kinlin. Old news. I have built probably 700 kinlin builds. Great rim, but not a special rim to bhs.

As for A23's..... I like the rim a lot. Problem is you can't get them. I have had a backorder in since January and recently started switching all of my customers who ordered them over to Kinlins. Velocity moved plants to Florida. They say that it's an anodizers problem. Funny thing is that HED C2 rims have been out as well....for the same amount of time with the same "promise" dates that keep getting moved out the same amount. So....they are the same rim with a finish change/shot peening.

I was able to get my hands on a few under the new design. It seems that they have strengthened the web of the rim and made it UST compatible as promised. This will make the rim stronger (honestly it needed that), but the tradeoff will be a heavier rim. Don't expect to get a straight story on that either.

Right now Velocity is in my poop box - a 6 month back order that they spent the whole time saying "next week.....2 weeks tops"......on top of the fact that they simply aren't making any Major Toms "We won't even think of those until like July." which means with this fiasco that I won't see them in time for this cross season - putting my entire business at risk.

Oh...and Velocity wheelsets are not "factory made" per se. The sets are built by a spin off/separate crew that happens to share the same space with "Velocity USA" - not Velocity btw....but the US importers of Velocity rims. They (smartly so) decided that they should import hubs, have them branded and then make standard builds. The hubs are all the usual hubs - such as Novatech, Bitex, and the sets represent a good value for the $. I was able to spend a great deal of time talking to the guy heading it up while we were at Interbike last year. You could say they are a "competitor", but they were nice, and I can't really compete with them if they only build Velocity and Velocity doesn't fill my orders.....so.....

....can you tell I'm bitter...?

canam73

Don't they have different depths and a welded joint, too?

Psimet2001 

My apologies - yes they do. Had to grab two and hold them side by side. They are coming through the same supply chain is what I was really trying to say. This isn't new - as HED buys their components on the open market and opens dies and molds in other factories like almost all of the rest of us.

canam73

I've actually never examined a C2. I just keep reading on BF from people that have them that they are better and I wanted to confirm my inferiority for messing around with A23s and the like.

Psimet2001 

C2 is 24mm deep, A23 is 20. The A23 has a UST web now. Pinned joint. C2 is welded. The C2 is also peened. It's a nice rim. HED is in the wheel business though and not the rim business so their inventory will always be lacking. See "Mavic" as an example.

Clipped_in

Some very informative discussion here. Thanks all!

Is the BHS/Kinlin rim pinned or welded? Mr. Psimet, in your professional opinion what are the tradeoffs between the two forms of manufacture?

Barrettscv 

I have two sets, both are;

-drilling 32 hole

-tire model Conti Grand Prix 700x24: 95 front and 110 psi rear, Vittoria Randonneur Hyper 700x32: 85 front and 90 psi rear.

-other wheels+tires you have used before: Mavic Open Pro

Great affordable wheels, the new standard.

Psimet2001 

Tradeoffs....nearly none. Neither joining method is an issue until they fail. On pinned joints I don't see failures but occassionally after a really hard hit/wrck they do sometimes twist slightly at the joint causing some ticking.....which is easy to remedy.... Kinlin is pinned for sure.

Werkin

The A23s I owned were sleeved and bonded.

bikerjp

Does this mean my C2 build is on indefinite hold? Bummer

Psimet2001 

Not really. I landed a 32 that I am picking up today, but the 24 is the killer. The king hubs are still being special assembled though because of the poor color match on what they had.

bikerjp

That's cool. Thanks. by special assembled I assume you mean shells swapped to get a better color match or something. Sad that that's necessary, but the attention to detail is much appreciated.

Psimet2001 

Yup - and they do that on their own. They won't let it out unless they match. and they do shells in different batches. Anodizing is kind of more art than science when it comes to tone.