Seattle Forrest

I don't know how this idea got into my head, but it has, and I can't get rid of it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I'd like to ride Cascade River Road, or at least to climb it. The road is 23 miles long; the first 10 are paved, then it's dirt and gravel, with potholes the size of my desk. There are a few sections of hard packed dirt at about a 20 % grade. The road climbs about 2,600 feet. I don't think I go faster than 20 or maybe 25 mph in my car.

From the top, you can see more glaciers than there are in all of Colorado. If you stay for an hour in the summertime, you'll hear them calving, maybe see a small ice-fall down a gulley.

The road is wide, and not very heavily used. I'm sure I could do it on a cross bike, instead of needing an MTB. But ... do they make 25 mm knobbies? Would it make sense to put my spare wheels (heavy but strong and cheap) on my R3 and try a road like this, or am I likely to need a dedicated bike? It's pretty steep the whole way, at least by cycling terms, and I have a good climber.

Vlaam4ever

I'd go with a cross bike. Not worth mucking up an R3 just to get a few miles of dirt in. I agree sounds like great fun.

RT

Kenda makes some 25's, but not sure they are knobby enough. Sounds like a job for a Mountain bike.

Barrettscv 

If you are fit, with a good power to weight ratio, you could make it on a road bike. The surface would need to be bone dry. Chances are that you could find a line that is smooth and firm and a slick tire can do it.

If you are like me, you would want a drop-bar touring or Cyclocross bike with good touring tires. Vittoria Randonneur Cross Pro in a 700x35 would do the job with 40 to 50 psi. Just stay seated when the surface becomes loose to maintain traction.

patrickgm60

That does sound fun. I put 35c CX tires on my hybrid and use it for gravel and nontechnical trails; would love to take it on that route.

https://www.conti-online.com/generato...s_race_en.html

I pump 'em to 85psi and they are fast.

Commodus

I'm not sure about a 20% grade on dirt riding 25s. I think you'd be walking.

That's the downside of a racing bike - lack of versatility.

Good excuse for a second bike I suppose.

Seattle Forrest

I don't think I can handle anything wider than 25 mm. I know they made a cyclocross R3, but I don't have it. I've done rail-to-trail gravel riding on 28 mm cross tires, and barely managed to stay upright when the gravel got deep. I've only driven this road (more times than I can count) but I don't think the gravel is very deep. And I can find a line to avoid all the potholes.

The road climbs this valley:



Lately I've been exploring some new hiking trails, and it turns out some of them allow bikes. I might wind up getting a cross or mountain bike anyway, but, in the meantime, I'm trying to figure stuff out.

Terry66

Here is the bike for the job. This is my Salsa Vaya on the Katy Trail coming across Missouri. I would imagine you would want to remove the packs/racks as it is around 70lbs in this pic. It has 700X37 All Terrain tires. I have put 700X42 on it with no problem. Supposedly it will do 700X45. It has a triple for hauling a load. I have done single track with it and it does a fine job. It has a real mountain bike feel to it. The Salsa Fargo is a little more rugged with more tire clearance, but I though the Vaya was a better all around choice. It's a bit heavy being a steel frame, but I would love to try that pass!

Barrettscv 

Looks like a great route.

Cyclocross range from pure race machines to touring friendly designs. Most Cyclocross bike only accept 700x35 or 700x38 tires. A few will take 700x40 tires or larger.

This model is a bargain: https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...36_-1___202339 . You might need to add a MTB cassette and rear derailleur to help with the 20% sections.

A Surly Cross Check is a good gravel bike, it can take 700x40 tires and fenders and racks install easily. The Salsa Vaya or Fargo are other models worth reviewing.

PeregrineA1 

No problem on road tires. Boone Roubaix had ~10 miles of gravel/dirt, it was wet, grades up to 20% and 90 some people finished. All on road bikes. Some on 23's, alot on 25's, and others on larger. Fastest guy in my age group (Master's) did it on carbon/tubular 25's. Google it and look at the video's and see how it compares.

I did it on a '74 Paramount with 27 x 1 1/8" Pasela's, just because I could. The carbon got the weekend off. Loads of fun.

SlimRider

I'd say that wider tires are the key to this challenge. Many different styles of bikes could potentially be triumphant here. Hybrids, cyclocross, and all forms of MTN bikes. Just slap some 38's or wider tires on and do it!

PS.

You live in awesome country!

Commodus

For realz? 20% grade on 23s on dirt?

pdedes

Totally doable on a road bike. You could use 23's.

Werkin

I climb an 18% unpaved, deeply rutted road fairly often. I can do it on 700cX25 road slicks, but the rear wheel spins, and the ride down is uncomfortable/scary. Wide (47mm) 650b road tires at lower pressure are a better ride both ways, still not great descending. Mountain bike with 26X1.25 (32mm) road slicks and front suspension, much better, especially on the way down. The quality of descent is often overlooked in the pursuit of optimum climbing performance. I find knobbies on the road more annoying than the trade off in dirt traction is worth. My suggestion would be go cheap mountain bike with front suspension that can be locked out on the road, 26X1.75 road tires, and swap the flat bar for a Jones bar. A 26 inch wheel is much better at climbing out of ruts & pits.

Seattle Forrest

Thanks for the info/advice, everyone!

Cascade River Road is open to about mile 20 now, and I might snow shoe to the top this weekend or next. It'll be until June or July that I can bike up there. So I'm not sure yet if I'll try it on my bike with beater wheels, or get a new one by then. Now, let's talk about dirt trails instead of dirt roads.

I'm kind of intrigued by Terry66's Vaya. I had a Novara Element CX bike with drop bars and disc brakes, and it was a painfully harsh ride. I'd do 30 to 35 miles on the Iron Horse Trail (rail-to-trail) and come back sore and hurting. I'd like to cover lots of distance on dirt trails, now that I'm finding some I can ride on, and looking for a comfortable ride. I've grown to really like drop bars. I'd also like to be able to haul a camera and some camping gear.

How do I know if I like single track, before I possibly buy a bike?

If I was going to want to do trails like the one in the photos below, could I get by without shock absorbers? I think a rigid frame would be easier to adjust to after riding roads for several years.





These are from the Fourth of July Creek trail, at Icicle Creek. (The link goes to pretty pictures.) It's 18 miles long, and involves about 10,000 feet of cumulative elevation gain. I don't know if bikes are allowed all the way, or if I'd have to turn back at the Alpine Lakes Wilderness boundary; the loop I've heard of people doing goes up this trail, joins the Icicle Ridge trail, and heads back down toward Leavenworth, for probably about 15 miles and more like 7,000 feet elevation gain. Turns out I can ride a lot of trails in the Teanaway, too.

Is this the kind of thing you could do on a cross bike, or would I need an MTB?

Commodus

I've certainly taken my cross bike on trails like that. It's okay, just a different kind of challenge. If that was all I was doing, I'd probably get a mountain bike. The nice thing about my cross bike though is that I can ride it to the trails and not hate life on the way.

Terry66

If I lived in that area, I would buy a Salsa Fargo. Basically it is like the Vaya but can run 29er mountain bike tires. It has the same sloping top tube and relaxed riding position. It really is like a rigid mountain bike with drop bars. It has plenty of rack mounts/options. It is overkill for the places I ride which is why I went with the Vaya.

Barrettscv 

A hardcore Cyclocross enthusiast could do a singletrack route, but it's not the best tool for the job. I would consider a hardtail MTB for that kind of technical riding. The larger tires on a MTB combined with a suspension fork will soak up much of the irregular features of the path. The bike will be much easier to control than any Cyclocross bike.

svtmike

The steel Vaya is definitely a better choice than the aluminum Novara for those trails. Whether it's smooth enough for you between the frame and the bigger tires you can run -- only you can tell.

Jandro 

I did this: https://app.strava.com/rides/8407739#153953057 on Saturday. 11ish miles of dirt, gravel, roots, potholes, pine needs, underbrush, and cow ****. It's supposed to be a hiking/mountain bike trail. I did it on my S2. There were only a couple times I had to get off the bike and walk up a hill (gravel way too loose and 25+% grade). I even bunnyhopped a snake!

Point is: go for it. You'll have a blast and you automatically earn badass status.

Seattle Forrest

Mount Tam is no joke. What kind of tires did you use?

I think I earned badass status already.

Creakyknees

Tires won't be your problem; gears will. Bring the lowest you can scrounge - maybe a compact front or even a triple, get a 27 or 29 for the back if your r-der will handle it.

merlinextraligh

+1 on you can do it on a road bike.

They race stuff like that in the Giro.

2 keys to doing it on a road bike: 1) low enough gear that you can maintain a steady cadence. If you're lugging it, you'll tend to break the tire loose on the power stroke; 2) even weight balance, you've got to keep the wheel planted, but also not lift the front wheel.



You can ride more stuff ona road bike with 23mm tires than many people think. Riding single track on a road bike is a great exercise for bike handling skills, and a hard packed dirt road is much easier than single track.

That said, if you have the option to put on 25mm tires with a bit of tread it would make things easier.

PeregrineA1 

Yes, 23's on 20% gravel. The rider in question was on Madone identical to mine, we talked a bit while in a loose pace line. He was smiling and made the finish, just a bit behind my 38 year old steed.

Check the video. The steep stuff wasn't particularly long, but it was there and hurt none the less.

And yes, the right gears are the key. On the Paramount I run a triple with 36 and 30 rear. It was plenty for this ride, seldom in the lowest cog.

Commodus

Well, you guys have inspired me. I'm going to go hammer up some single track tonight on my roadie.

Will report back! Unless I die.