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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Rant of the day

Old 05-16-12, 10:07 AM
  #1  
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Rant of the day

On my way into work while going through a green light, I had a guy waiting for a red light on the right suddenly gun the engine and turn on me (not in front of me, but actually on me in a maneuver that normally would have t-boned me).

Fortunately, I ride in the left of the traffic lane if I can keep up. If I would have been in the designated bike lane, I would have been creamed. Instead, I had enough time to swerve and split the lane with oncoming traffic.

Normally I'd just chalk this up as a stupid mistake and let it go. For some reason (probably because he was driving next to me), I shouted "WHOA! MY LIGHT WAS STILL GREEN!" His reply was that he couldn't see recumbents. Only in the Fredliest city in the country -- namely Corvallis, OR -- would a motorist even know what a recumbent is.

But just so we have things straight, apparently it's unreasonable to expect motorists to see a bright yellow guy riding at the same height as most passenger cars in the middle of the traffic lane even if they're supposed to be waiting at the red light while things pass. Glad we got that straightened out.

/rant
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Old 05-16-12, 10:14 AM
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Scary. Glad you avoided a bad situation.

I have to admit that recumbent are lower and more difficult to see. It is instinctual for people to recognize faces, arms etc on cyclist. On a recumbent those human characteristics are masked and lower to the ground. I'ts just a more compromised position. So, he has a point, but does not overrule the fact that he should have seen you.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:15 AM
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Yikes. Good foresight, the key to avoiding most accidents.

I remember in Illinois as a kid that red-light rights were not permitted. This would be a good reason why. We moved to California and it all changed.

Good rant. I give it a 78: It has a good beat and you can dance to it
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Old 05-16-12, 10:15 AM
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There seems to be a lot of idiocy on the road lately. There have been more clueless cyclists, and I'm sure that's because it's finally getting nice and the people who either don't ride all winter, or ride trainers, are coming back out with questionable bike skills. ("I picked my line, and nothing will make me deviate from it, even oncoming traffic.") I don't have a way to explain the driver stupidity, though.

Last night on a loop around the lake, I was climbing a hill toward an intersection with a light, in the bike lane. When I was about 10 feet from the intersection somebody floored it, trying to pass me and then make a right turn. If I hadn't screamed at the guy at the top of my longs he'd have hit me; he came to a stop about a foot away. Apparently, you only need a lane to be empty of other cars before you can merge into/through it.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
There seems to be a lot of idiocy on the road lately. There have been more clueless cyclists, and I'm sure that's because it's finally getting nice and the people who either don't ride all winter, or ride trainers, are coming back out with questionable bike skills. ("I picked my line, and nothing will make me deviate from it, even oncoming traffic.") I don't have a way to explain the driver stupidity, though.

Last night on a loop around the lake, I was climbing a hill toward an intersection with a light, in the bike lane. When I was about 10 feet from the intersection somebody floored it, trying to pass me and then make a right turn. If I hadn't screamed at the guy at the top of my longs he'd have hit me; he came to a stop about a foot away. Apparently, you only need a lane to be empty of other cars before you can merge into/through it.
Word. I have noticed as a regular commuter that the past five years have been far more dangerous than the previous ten. This goes for both motorists as well as cyclists.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:18 AM
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Recumbents, bikes or motorcycles - it doesn't matter. I always assume they won't see me and ride appropriately. It's unfortunate, but part of riding.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Vlaam4ever
So, he has a point, but does not overrule the fact that he should have seen you.
The dude had a red light. He should have been stopped regardless of being able to see or not see the recumbent.

This story illustrates why going through red lights is a problem even if it appears to be "safe" to do so.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:37 AM
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I always felt recumbent and other lower bike riders should have that flag thingie attached to their bikes. I have sometimes acted nosy and pointed out to those very low recumbent riders I see that a flag would be kinda nice on their bikes for visibility. I also say the same to handicapped/disabled riders I see. I have never had anyone tell me it's none of my business, yet.

The truth of the matter is that we all need all the "visibility" that is "reasonable" in our constant tango with car drivers.

And, it's their world (automobile drivers), and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
This story illustrates why going through red lights is a problem even if it appears to be "safe" to do so.
I am glad to see someone else on my side on this
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Old 05-16-12, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Vlaam4ever
I have to admit that recumbent are lower and more difficult to see.
This is an issue, but I think the more common problem is that people *do* see you but it just doesn't register that they have to do anything. I think this is a major reason why it's common for motorists to pull in front of cyclists and do boneheaded things using designated bike lanes as a turn lane when bicycles are already in that lane.

That's why people do crap like this vvvvvv
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Last night on a loop around the lake, I was climbing a hill toward an intersection with a light, in the bike lane. When I was about 10 feet from the intersection somebody floored it, trying to pass me and then make a right turn. If I hadn't screamed at the guy at the top of my longs he'd have hit me; he came to a stop about a foot away. Apparently, you only need a lane to be empty of other cars before you can merge into/through it.
I get the people have brain farts. But I think that what annoys me is that when people screw up, they should think they screwed up even if they don't apologize. And that's not happening in many cases. Crap drivers always blame circumstances for trouble they get into.

Except when it's not practical, I ride through intersections in the far left of the traffic lane regardless of facilities available for bikes. My experience is that's where you're most likely to be seen and you have the best flexibility and protection from common accidents.
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Old 05-16-12, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
The dude had a red light. He should have been stopped regardless of being able to see or not see the recumbent.
Most areas allow a right turn on a red (after stopping).
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Old 05-16-12, 10:51 AM
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Hang on.

I've got an important cell phone call here. Can you guys keep it down - all this yammering is keeping me from paying attention to my important conversation.
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Old 05-16-12, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
Most areas allow a right turn on a red (after stopping).
Correct.

But one small area of the law that many motorists seem unfamiliar with is that you're supposed to turn only if it is safe to do so...
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Old 05-16-12, 11:07 AM
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Was driver in a SUV? They are higher off the ground, so a recumbent is even harder to see.

Not an excuse, but it would add to my personal anti-SUV ranting.
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Old 05-16-12, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Boudicca
Was driver in a SUV? They are higher off the ground, so a recumbent is even harder to see.
Toyota Camry.

In any case, visibility out of SUVs through the front and driver's window is excellent. It's only to the sides where they'd have a disadvantage compared to other vehicles. In terms of statistical correlations of outright cluelessness with vehicle types, my experience is that minivans are the worst offenders.
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Old 05-16-12, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
The dude had a red light. He should have been stopped regardless of being able to see or not see the recumbent.

This story illustrates why going through red lights is a problem even if it appears to be "safe" to do so.
Not sure I follow you logic. Not sure of your location but most US states allow right-on-red, assuming clear passage. So obviously the driver did not see the cyclist(as I mentioned not an excuse, rather a clarification of the events). Second the cyclist was progressing through a green light not running a red...
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Old 05-16-12, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by banerjek
Correct.

But one small area of the law that many motorists seem unfamiliar with is that you're supposed to turn only if it is safe to do so...
Key point. FWIW I see this all the time in CO and it really has nothing to do with cyclists. People around here tend to do the brief stop then turn R on red regardless of who or what is legally barreling down on them in the lane. Mystifying but the attitude seems to be "WHAT!?!?! I stopped!!!" Never mind that they almost cause a multi-car pile up at 45mph+ speeds. Dolt drivers doing amazingly selfish and stooooopid things. Then add the cellphone into the equation...
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Old 05-16-12, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by banerjek
On my way into work while going through a green light, I had a guy waiting for a red light on the right suddenly gun the engine and turn on me (not in front of me, but actually on me in a maneuver that normally would have t-boned me).

Fortunately, I ride in the left of the traffic lane if I can keep up. If I would have been in the designated bike lane, I would have been creamed. Instead, I had enough time to swerve and split the lane with oncoming traffic.

Normally I'd just chalk this up as a stupid mistake and let it go. For some reason (probably because he was driving next to me), I shouted "WHOA! MY LIGHT WAS STILL GREEN!" His reply was that he couldn't see recumbents. Only in the Fredliest city in the country -- namely Corvallis, OR -- would a motorist even know what a recumbent is.

But just so we have things straight, apparently it's unreasonable to expect motorists to see a bright yellow guy riding at the same height as most passenger cars in the middle of the traffic lane even if they're supposed to be waiting at the red light while things pass. Glad we got that straightened out.

/rant
Just more proof that all the brightly colored clothing, flashing lights, waiving flags won't make an oblivious driver see you. Ride like you are invisible.
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Old 05-16-12, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pgjackson
Ride like everyone is trying to kill you.
Fify
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Old 05-16-12, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Boudicca
Was driver in a SUV? They are higher off the ground, so a recumbent is even harder to see.
Usually when you're higher you can see better.
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Old 05-16-12, 11:46 AM
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A couple of nights ago my riding parner and I were riding down a non-busy rather rural road, no shoulder. I was following her and we were within a foot of the white line. Another rider was riding towards us on the other side, riding about a foot from his white line. Everything was cool until the car coming up behind the other rider decided to speed up and pass him at the same time we were meeting him. So picture a car going between three riders on a skinny country road. Dude just barely missed all three of us.

Drivers are jerks, the lot of em. (I count me in this too when I am driving). I just assume each car is driven by a sociopath bent on taking me out.

Banerjek, at least you live to tell the tale! I totally understand your ranting about it; sometimes you just have to vent the frustration.
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Old 05-16-12, 12:03 PM
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After you caught up with him and kicked in his windshield, then what happened?
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Old 05-16-12, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek
Correct.

But one small area of the law that many motorists seem unfamiliar with is that you're supposed to turn only if it is safe to do so...
Well, this isn't really true, or, it is, but only on a technicality. You can go when it's safe for you. Pedestrians in your way ... they'll splatter, but they won't do you any real harm.

There's a particular intersection on the 'corner' of my Lake Union Loop, where if you're a pedestrian or a cyclist, and you have the green light and the white dude that means walk, you'd better not step out into the cross-walk until there's a gap in the line of cars going right on red. Unfortunately, it's a very busy intersection (Valley/Broad and Westlake) and there's almost never a gap.

Seriously, drivers blow through doing rights-on-red like they're [strike]trying to[/strike] intimidate pedestrians into stopping for them.
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Old 05-16-12, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Seriously, drivers blow through doing rights-on-red like they're [strike]trying to[/strike] intimidate pedestrians into stopping for them.
That's something we have a lot of here. People pull into the stop only looking to their left for a gap in the traffic and then peal out without looking right. Usually I can tell from the way they're looking that I shouldn't bother crossing (with my light), but occasionally I will. If I hit their fender with my fist while jumping back out of their way, sometimes they give me a wave as if that makes it ok.
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Old 05-16-12, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Nachoman
After you caught up with him and kicked in his windshield, then what happened?
This is never a good idea.
You should wait until they stop to eat lunch and then confront them while they're eating. Or confront them in a Circle-K parking lot where it's safer.
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