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  1. #1
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    Is it safe to run a clincher tire on a tubeless rim (DA WH-7900)?

    With the bead being slightly different on the tubeless wheel (Dura Ace WH-7900), is it OK to run a regular clincher tire (including tube obviously) like a GP4k on it? I imagine it should be safe but figure it doesn't hurt to ask around here in case anyone has first hand experience.

    It's my first flat since I started road biking six years ago and don't have any spare Atoms kicking around - won't be able to get any until late next week. I do have some regular GP4ks lying around, hence the question. I'd prefer not to miss any riding this week but I don't want my next post to be, "had my first crash"...

    It figures too that it was one of the rare times that I didn't bring a tube/co2, so I had to do the walk of shame until my wife picked me up. Strangely, the Caffeelatex sealant did absolutely nothing except spray everywhere - it's still bubbling right now on the stand beside me. Didn't want to use Stans because of how it reacts to the WH-7900 finish but now I'm not so sure if I want to continue to use Caffeelatex.
    Last edited by Digitalfiend; 05-24-12 at 07:54 PM.
    2015 Norco Threshold SL Ultegra | 2012 Trek Madone 6.9 SSL w/Di2

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    I'll post this in the mechanic's forum, if I were you. There are guys on there who've seen almost every scenario a bike can throw at you.
    Regards,

    Jed

  3. #3
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    There is no problem using a normal clincher and tube on a tubeless rim. I did this for two or three years on a DA tubeless wheelset.

  4. #4
    Senior Member JTGraphics's Avatar
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    My friend has those rims and uses regular clincher's and tubes with no issues at all.
    It may not be fancy but it gets me were I need to go.
    http://www.jtgraphics.net/cyclist_bicycles.htm

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys, that's reassuring.

    I'm actually shocked that I went this long without a flat. I guess I was due.
    2015 Norco Threshold SL Ultegra | 2012 Trek Madone 6.9 SSL w/Di2

  6. #6
    Two-Wheeled Aficionado ColinL's Avatar
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    regarding your sealant problem, it is unfortunately possible to have a hole that sealant can't plug. this happens not infrequently on rocky MTB trails especially with thin 'race' tires. I don't ride with anyone who uses roadtubeless but I've seen some big holes in regular road tires.

  7. #7
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    I use the stans sealant and it doesn't react with rims. That was a long time ago but not the formula that has been around for a while. How old was the sealant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    I use the stans sealant and it doesn't react with rims. That was a long time ago but not the formula that has been around for a while. How old was the sealant?
    The bike came from the dealer with Stan's in the tires and after I removed my first set of Atoms (due to wear) I found a serious amount of corrosion, which shouldn't really happen to anodized aluminum. Went online and found I wasn't alone. I switched to Caffeelatex after discovering that.

    I put the sealant in around February...but come to think of it...I rode these wheels on my old bike in March when it was still cold out (-10c ambient.) I wonder if that did something to the sealant. I'd have to check the bottle to see what the minimum temp is. Just pulled the tire off and it is clear the sealant was working at some point as it sealed the tiny gaps along the bead/tire interface, valve, etc. Damn, totally forgot that I rode these wheels in the winter.

    Honestly, I'm sort of tempted to abandon the whole tubeless tire thing. Cleaning up the rim is a PIA and getting the Atoms on these rims is not fun. I can put on a GP4k in about 5 minutes - a single Atom took me almost an hour! Granted my basement was cold in February so the rubber might have been a bit stiffer but my hands felt destroyed the next day.

    The only real appreciable advantage I can see to tubeless is that the tire seems less likely to come off the wheel in a blow out due to the tight fit/bead and dried sealant along the bead. I'm 180 lbs at the moment and the tire didn't even pull away from the edge of the wheel when it blew and deflated. Then again, perhaps normal clinchers behave the same way - as I said, I was puncture free until today so my experience here is limited. Being able to run a bit less air pressure hasn't really made that much of a difference for me either and I still typically find myself going back to 95-100psi.
    Last edited by Digitalfiend; 05-24-12 at 11:32 PM.
    2015 Norco Threshold SL Ultegra | 2012 Trek Madone 6.9 SSL w/Di2

  9. #9
    Two-Wheeled Aficionado ColinL's Avatar
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    It doesn't take much to abandon roadtubeless. You already have the wheels and tires, and I presume tubes. You just need to clean the wheels very well to remove excess latex sealant and then put the tubes and Grand Prix 4000 tires on.

    Then you can decide what's next after you wear those tires out.

  10. #10
    Senior Member noise boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend View Post
    The bike came from the dealer with Stan's in the tires and after I removed my first set of Atoms (due to wear) I found a serious amount of corrosion, which shouldn't really happen to anodized aluminum. Went online and found I wasn't alone. I switched to Caffeelatex after discovering that.

    I put the sealant in around February...but come to think of it...I rode these wheels on my old bike in March when it was still cold out (-10c ambient.) I wonder if that did something to the sealant. I'd have to check the bottle to see what the minimum temp is. Just pulled the tire off and it is clear the sealant was working at some point as it sealed the tiny gaps along the bead/tire interface, valve, etc. Damn, totally forgot that I rode these wheels in the winter.

    Honestly, I'm sort of tempted to abandon the whole tubeless tire thing. Cleaning up the rim is a PIA and getting the Atoms on these rims is not fun. I can put on a GP4k in about 5 minutes - a single Atom took me almost an hour! Granted my basement was cold in February so the rubber might have been a bit stiffer but my hands felt destroyed the next day.

    The only real appreciable advantage I can see to tubeless is that the tire seems less likely to come off the wheel in a blow out due to the tight fit/bead and dried sealant along the bead. I'm 180 lbs at the moment and the tire didn't even pull away from the edge of the wheel when it blew and deflated. Then again, perhaps normal clinchers behave the same way - as I said, I was puncture free until today so my experience here is limited. Being able to run a bit less air pressure hasn't really made that much of a difference for me either and I still typically find myself going back to 95-100psi.
    Interesting, I had the same experience with the caffelatex sealant, 2 flats in a row where it just kept bubbling out and spraying everywhere. The first time I was willing to attribute it to too large of a hole, the second time I gave up. I have switched to the stans sealant now, but have yet to have a puncture with it. BTW these are Campy Zonda 2 way fit wheels.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend View Post
    The bike came from the dealer with Stan's in the tires and after I removed my first set of Atoms (due to wear) I found a serious amount of corrosion, which shouldn't really happen to anodized aluminum. Went online and found I wasn't alone. I switched to Caffeelatex after discovering that.

    I put the sealant in around February...but come to think of it...I rode these wheels on my old bike in March when it was still cold out (-10c ambient.) I wonder if that did something to the sealant. I'd have to check the bottle to see what the minimum temp is. Just pulled the tire off and it is clear the sealant was working at some point as it sealed the tiny gaps along the bead/tire interface, valve, etc. Damn, totally forgot that I rode these wheels in the winter.

    Honestly, I'm sort of tempted to abandon the whole tubeless tire thing. Cleaning up the rim is a PIA and getting the Atoms on these rims is not fun. I can put on a GP4k in about 5 minutes - a single Atom took me almost an hour! Granted my basement was cold in February so the rubber might have been a bit stiffer but my hands felt destroyed the next day.

    The only real appreciable advantage I can see to tubeless is that the tire seems less likely to come off the wheel in a blow out due to the tight fit/bead and dried sealant along the bead. I'm 180 lbs at the moment and the tire didn't even pull away from the edge of the wheel when it blew and deflated. Then again, perhaps normal clinchers behave the same way - as I said, I was puncture free until today so my experience here is limited. Being able to run a bit less air pressure hasn't really made that much of a difference for me either and I still typically find myself going back to 95-100psi.
    If you throw the tire in the dryer when they are new they only need about 30 seconds. When warm to go on by hand. After they have been on for a while they go on and off easily.

    Also about the corrosion. Did you use soap installing the tires. If you did use certain types that is what caused your corrosion issues not the sealant. Some people tried running without sealant but used dawn to seat the beads initially. There was a lot of corrosion after using no sealant. It is not the sealnt causing the issues. Here is a direct quote from the thread you linked:

    "My WH-7850-C24-TL also corroded, but I did not use any sealant. I did however, use dish soap to seal the tubeless bead on the rim. It turns out that Dawn dish soap has ammonia in it and this caused my rims to corrode. It only took 30 days to corrode."

    Also the Atoms are not a prefered tire. They are the same as the Fusion but with less rubber so they wear out faster. At some point they get too thin and you will flat. Even the stan's guys race on the fusions. It does suck that there is such a limited selection of tires.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noise boy View Post
    Interesting, I had the same experience with the caffelatex sealant, 2 flats in a row where it just kept bubbling out and spraying everywhere. The first time I was willing to attribute it to too large of a hole, the second time I gave up. I have switched to the stans sealant now, but have yet to have a puncture with it. BTW these are Campy Zonda 2 way fit wheels.
    The Caffe sealant has a poor reputation, period. And that's putting it charitably. If you want to try something non-corrosive in there, there's the Bontrager SuperJuice, which I believe is glycol-based, but I won't swear to its puncture-sealing capabilities in a road application. Given the pressure a road tire is under and the size of puncture you can get from a big shard of broken glass, there will be punctures that sealant just won't handle, of course.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    If you throw the tire in the dryer when they are new they only need about 30 seconds. When warm to go on by hand. After they have been on for a while they go on and off easily.
    I thought about that afterwards but I'd watched a YouTube vid of some guy installing one on my particular wheelset in like 2 minutes or something, so figured how hard could it really be? I should have stopped after 10min and just chucked it in the dryer. Live and learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    Also about the corrosion. Did you use soap installing the tires. If you did use certain types that is what caused your corrosion issues not the sealant. Some people tried running without sealant but used dawn to seat the beads initially. There was a lot of corrosion after using no sealant. It is not the sealnt causing the issues. Here is a direct quote from the thread you linked:

    "My WH-7850-C24-TL also corroded, but I did not use any sealant. I did however, use dish soap to seal the tubeless bead on the rim. It turns out that Dawn dish soap has ammonia in it and this caused my rims to corrode. It only took 30 days to corrode."
    FYI that's not my quote but to answer your question, no, I didn't use any soap when I put my Atoms on, though perhaps the Trek tech used something when he put the first pair on (which is when Stan's was used.) Not sure - I just wish I'd stuck to my guns about letting the tech put Stan's in the tire when he was setting up the bike. It's probably not solely a Stan's problem as the annodized finish on my WH-7900s seems pretty poor, even compared to my Ultegra wheelset.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    Also the Atoms are not a prefered tire. They are the same as the Fusion but with less rubber so they wear out faster. At some point they get too thin and you will flat. Even the stan's guys race on the fusions. It does suck that there is such a limited selection of tires.
    Honestly, I've had pretty good success with the Atoms. Last year I think I did 4000km on a pair and only swapped them because of a few deep non-penetrating nicks and gashes that I didn't like the look of. I'd read too many reviews about Fusion 3 sidewall problems. Then again, this pair of Atoms only lasted about 1500km.
    2015 Norco Threshold SL Ultegra | 2012 Trek Madone 6.9 SSL w/Di2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalfiend View Post
    I thought about that afterwards but I'd watched a YouTube vid of some guy installing one on my particular wheelset in like 2 minutes or something, so figured how hard could it really be? I should have stopped after 10min and just chucked it in the dryer. Live and learn.



    FYI that's not my quote but to answer your question, no, I didn't use any soap when I put my Atoms on, though perhaps the Trek tech used something when he put the first pair on (which is when Stan's was used.) Not sure - I just wish I'd stuck to my guns about letting the tech put Stan's in the tire when he was setting up the bike. It's probably not solely a Stan's problem as the annodized finish on my WH-7900s seems pretty poor, even compared to my Ultegra wheelset.



    Honestly, I've had pretty good success with the Atoms. Last year I think I did 4000km on a pair and only swapped them because of a few deep non-penetrating nicks and gashes that I didn't like the look of. I'd read too many reviews about Fusion 3 sidewall problems. Then again, this pair of Atoms only lasted about 1500km.

    Yeah the sidewall issue seem to be over now. There was a period of bad batches that really turned a lot of people away. I ordered mine directly from stans a couple months ago. My shop had some issues with them last year and hutchinson was no help. He is carrying them again now since they fixed the issues. The main mechanic rides tubeless so they are very familiar with what to look out for. I wish there was some more options on the market.

  15. #15
    Senior Member noise boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    Yeah the sidewall issue seem to be over now. There was a period of bad batches that really turned a lot of people away. I ordered mine directly from stans a couple months ago. My shop had some issues with them last year and hutchinson was no help. He is carrying them again now since they fixed the issues. The main mechanic rides tubeless so they are very familiar with what to look out for. I wish there was some more options on the market.
    I have the Maxxis Padrones on my bike, so far they seem fine, had some bomber descents and such with no drama.

  16. #16
    Senior Member noise boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    The Caffe sealant has a poor reputation, period. And that's putting it charitably. If you want to try something non-corrosive in there, there's the Bontrager SuperJuice, which I believe is glycol-based, but I won't swear to its puncture-sealing capabilities in a road application. Given the pressure a road tire is under and the size of puncture you can get from a big shard of broken glass, there will be punctures that sealant just won't handle, of course.
    The shop mechanic said he likes the Caffe sealant for intial inflation on tubeless, but thinks the stans is better for puncture sealing.

  17. #17
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    I use my air compressor (Makita MAC700) and the prestaflator so I never had to use any soap/water/sealant to get them seater. If you have one you can use I highly suggest it for tubeless. I tried with a pump for fun and it was not easy at all. I can see some people giving up tubeless as not worth the hassle.

  18. #18
    Senior Member noise boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS Alpine View Post
    I use my air compressor (Makita MAC700) and the prestaflator so I never had to use any soap/water/sealant to get them seater. If you have one you can use I highly suggest it for tubeless. I tried with a pump for fun and it was not easy at all. I can see some people giving up tubeless as not worth the hassle.
    Interesting, I did mine with a compressor, but I have done it with the pump as well, with the soapy water the pump was fine.

  19. #19
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    I actually got my Atoms to seal with just a pump. I was shocked but after a few seconds of furious pumping, everything popped right in place...and that just sounded like the opening to a dirty novel...wow back to work for me.
    2015 Norco Threshold SL Ultegra | 2012 Trek Madone 6.9 SSL w/Di2

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