JustinNY

Exactly this

Running is a great workout, but it's really just walking fast.

mpath

This.

Otherwise, this thread's been regurgitated ad nauseaum about the "pros" and "cons" of running.

Reynolds 

Running is not good for anyone's knees IMO.

lechat

Love trail running. Did 6 miles late yesterday, 1/2 old logging rd., 1/2 technical single track. Nice change-up. I could park a mile away from the house and run a 30 mile loop with only 2 road Xings (out and back), if fitness allowed.
Are some downsides though, almost trod on a snake on the way back last night. Dusky dark and mind was wandering. Wasn't poisonous, still sphincter tightening!

lechat

Not really true. Long term data is just now coming in from people that began running in the '80s when its popularity took off. No more knee joint replacements for runners vs non. And as said before, the runners have more, and healthier knee cartilage.

hhnngg1

These people disagree:

One recent systematic review of the literature
https://www.npr.org/assets/news/2011/...y-on-knees.pdf

American Academy of Sports Medicine

nondes 

Running wasn't good for this cyclist when I tried to do my usual loop this weekend. Ran into 1000+ women doing 5k/half marathon - it ruined my attempt at a best time so far this year!

fuji_owner

Very "haiku" style writing, funny! Zen master

androidtt

Start swimming too...

In my opinion, I feel like running for a longer period of time will help build your slow twitch muscles, you lose weight and your mentality to HTFU gets better which can be pretty useful on the bike. So, good for the long bike race that has steady threshold power (ie. ITT's, TTT's). Running sprints = HTFU for sprints on the bike.

SwampDude

I was a runner until I couldn't run anymore because of a torn meniscus. The injury happened on an icy street, so I was the cause, not the sport. The only downside to running for a bicyclist is the risk of injury.

I loved to run, just like I love to ride. Being able to do both would be the ultimate. For me its all about being outside, moving and improving. Tri-athletes enjoy multiple sports, so why shouldn't the rest of us?

As a final thought, there are individuals whose skeletal structure doesn't work well for running, and they would be well served to avoid it's considerable stresses. Their leg joints don't line up favorably and/or the bone structure in their feet can't sustain the pounding. These folks are more susceptible to injury. For example, people who tend to be a bit bow legged may be asking for problems. Fortunately, biking avoids all of these issues.

hhnngg1

The number of people who 'can't run' due to anatomic reasons is actually really, really low. The reality is that the vast majority (like 95%+) of these people who can't run because of some self or doctor-claimed anatomical reason, can actually run fine - they just don't put the gradual long-term (like years) of training required to build the ligaments and muscles to withstand the pounding.

Humans were evolved to run. We'd have died out as a species millenia ago if such a significant proportion of us couldn't even run 3 miles on a regular basis. However, in our modern age, obesity rules (65+% of americans are OBESE, not just overweight!) and add the added obese weight and lack of fitness to lack of base training, and it's not surprising so many people incorrectly assume they can't run because of anatomic reasons.

On a side note, I'm pretty bow-legged, and I run just fine (low-mid 5 min mile). I've never heard of any normal anatomical variant, be it bowleggedness, short leg length, or even leg discrepancy length that prevented running. The ones that do prevent running are pretty severe and obvious, and you wouldn't expect those folks to go run.

Cyclists are amongst the worst, if not the worst perpetrators of the "I can't run" and "running = injury" myths. I'm convinced part of it is justification for their sport, and another big reason again is that they just don't put the years of gradual buildup to become good at running.

StanSeven

You need to read more then because that's wrong

StanSeven

I do a lot of both as well as swin. Running is definately a harder workout - I can't cycle that hard or fast the day after a tough run but can run fast the day after a touch cycling workout.

SwampDude

You make a good case, and seem to speak with authority. Maybe my experience is an anomaly.

I sure don't want to perpetuate a myth that running and biking don't go well together. As I stated, doing both is the ultimate. While I never experienced the endorphin rush of "runners high", I can report that running got me as close to clear headedness and a static-free zone for problem solving as anything I've ever experienced. To have the feeling that "tonight it feels like I can run forever" is almost beyond description.

We can't pretend that runners aren't susceptible to injury. I've trained with too many guys that have had problems of all sorts. Maybe the causes were poor training techniques, over training, running in adverse conditions or whatever, but lots of my acquaintances required doctor care, some had surgery, therapy, etc. All recovered to run again, but they were out of commission for a while.

The orthopedic surgeon who scoped my knee suggested I was not well suited, anatomically, for long distance running. I'm bow legged, flat footed, big boned...built more like a fire hydrant than a telephone pole. He didn't say my easily-torn meniscus was caused by running. He didn't even say I shouldn't have been a runner. He just said I am not well structured for the sport. Besides, I could never get under a 6 min mile.

Rimmer

I find running works my lower quads a whole lot more. I used to always get feet and ankle pain, but ever since I started jogging, that went away. You have to be careful, and take it slow. People don't do that. I've been jogging for a few months, I'm still working on my base.

Reynolds 

OK, that was just my (maybe prejudiced, as a cyclist) opinion based only on a few ex runners I know.

I read the paper, and although it states that "these findings suggest that physical activity (not specifically running - my bold) may not have a detrimental effect on the knee joint but may be beneficial to joint health" it doesn't seem conclusive to me. Still, as said before, mine is just an opinion and I'm open to change it if I find evidence for the contrary.


See above.

sqharaway

This is the most common reason I hear against running--it's bad for your joints. Why do you think so many long term runners eventuallycan't do it anymore?

mpath

This is so parochial, naive, ignorant, and anecdotal.

Insert almost any sport into that statement: hockey, golf, football, baseball, and even cycling.

Commodus

I believe it is because a cyclist typically will have excellent cardio, and thus be easily able to run way too far, way too fast. This results in lower-body injury, and the belief that running leads inevitably to injury.

This is the problem I struggle with. I like to run, but injure myself constantly. Even though I am very careful to start slow, it never seems to be slow enough...I think it's because my definition of 'slow' is governed by my cardiovascular fitness.

gregf83 

+100. I found it much easier to get fit after the age of 40 by cycling vs running. Now that I'm fit I find it difficult to run for a variety of reasons.

If you're comfortable riding 10-15 hrs/wk, going on short 20min runs every day is a hassle. If I start doing longer runs I inevitably bugger up one of my calves and have to take a couple of weeks off. Maybe I'm just too impatient. I do like the simplicity of running in the winter and not having to put on 14 layers of clothing and ride around in the muck.

Bacciagalupe

There's a fair amount of animosity towards runners in this particular subforum. Surprise!

I second gregf83's comments that cross-training does not, contrary to popular belief, work well in terms of enhancing your performance in one sport or the other (or both). If you want to get good at cycling, you need to cycle lots. If you want to improve your running, you need to run lots.

Despite this, IMO unless you have a specific goal that you cannot reach, it's good to cultivate both skills. Running is weight-bearing, and cycling is not; running requires almost no equipment, and is thus very easy to do when traveling.

One other item, make sure you are scheduling in some rest to your training schedule. You won't improve without some rest, so your body can recover and get stronger.

hhnngg1

There probably won't be any 'definitive' evidence for this topic, but a big-time meta-analysis as the one cited is really convincing. The stats in this paper far exceed most of the 'evidence' used for most medical guidelines.

The authors make this pretty clear as well in their last paragraph:
"In summary, this review found that the relationship between physical activity and specific knee structures differed, with strong evidence for a positive relationship between physical activity and tibiofemoral osteophytes, absence of an association between physical activity and joint space narrowing, and strong evidence for an inverse relationship between physical activity and cartilage defects."

soccerpig70

As someone who was trying to get in shape over the last two years I started running first and after dropping enough weight in my mind I started cycling. I still do both but if you made me choose I would pick the bike for no other reason than I can go further see more and just get away faster from everyday life and its craziness. I never experienced leg pain or joint issues running. I just started slow and built up those base miles.

zazenzach

typical nonsense spouted from the likes of someone who has no idea what he's talking about.

also, enjoy your low bone density.

rubic

Running is awesome!!! All of my life I have been a runner, and a cyclist. I began competitive track racing at 13 and have run thousands of miles since. 5Ks, 10Ks, marathons, mountain running, etc. And then something snapped, at age 57, my left knee. The arthroscopy photos showed bone on bone, running career over.

I can sure still ride a bike. I can push it and it feels just like it did years ago although a bit slower. YMMV