So how liable are dog owners for the damage/wrecks/bites their dogs cause?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 124
Bikes: Motobecane
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So how liable are dog owners for the damage/wrecks/bites their dogs cause?
I know there have been tons of topics about those that have wrecked, what to do when chased, defense mechanisms, etc...
But I got to wondering what the legal liability is for the owners of said pets if they do harm or wreck a biker. I live in an area absolutely saturated with unleashed dogs. Just yesterday, I had to deal with 6 different dogs in less than 1 mile close to my home. I'm really getting sick of it. What am I supposed to do? Go from house to house calling the cops each time a dog runs off a porch and damn near kills me? I do my best to avoid these areas; however, it truly is impossible to ride anywhere around my house without coming into contact with multiple dogs. For reference, I live right on the border between a small city - Knoxville - and a rural setting. So, you have a lot of houses but very few neighborhoods that would act as a natural barrier to animals running wild due to kids/traffic. (I.E. Not city but not farmland either.)
Back to my question. I'm assuming that, as long as I'm not on someone's actual private property, that the owners of any dog that causes me to wreck or bites me would be legally at fault. Correct?
But I got to wondering what the legal liability is for the owners of said pets if they do harm or wreck a biker. I live in an area absolutely saturated with unleashed dogs. Just yesterday, I had to deal with 6 different dogs in less than 1 mile close to my home. I'm really getting sick of it. What am I supposed to do? Go from house to house calling the cops each time a dog runs off a porch and damn near kills me? I do my best to avoid these areas; however, it truly is impossible to ride anywhere around my house without coming into contact with multiple dogs. For reference, I live right on the border between a small city - Knoxville - and a rural setting. So, you have a lot of houses but very few neighborhoods that would act as a natural barrier to animals running wild due to kids/traffic. (I.E. Not city but not farmland either.)
Back to my question. I'm assuming that, as long as I'm not on someone's actual private property, that the owners of any dog that causes me to wreck or bites me would be legally at fault. Correct?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
I've had one dog-related crash which resulted in a bent frame (butted steel tubes bend rather easily). The dog owner's home insurance paid for a replacement bike without any trouble. Also had some road rash but didn't put in any claim for that (no monetary costs, just some pain). Best to check with someone local to confirm the legal situation in your area but I'd expect the dog owners to be liable - the main problem might be in proving whose dog was involved and that the dog was responsible for the crash.
#3
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,557
Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 2,171 Times
in
1,462 Posts
Maybe, maybe not. If the area (county) doesn't have a leash law, the owners aren't really breaking the law. Dogs in the street are like children playing. The owners/parents are responsible but getting something more than medical expenses and repair to your bike should be it. In addition you say there are lots of dogs. A judge might ask why are you riding there knowing the are lots of dogs running loose?
#4
Jet Jockey
If an owner doesn't take responsibility for the dog, then in my mind the dog is merely a stray animal. A stray that attacked or acted aggressively enough to cause a mishap.
If no one is responsible for that, then the only solution for a wild and dangerous stray is a bullet. Maybe a tazer if you're in a residential area. A tazer with a VERY high power setting.
Two weeks ago a dog chased me that had bitten a woman on a previous ride. Normally I step on it and outrun this mutt (not easy), but this time I went just fast enough to keep the dog right on my heels. Kept encouraging him along for nearly six miles. Hope his owners had fun with that.
If no one is responsible for that, then the only solution for a wild and dangerous stray is a bullet. Maybe a tazer if you're in a residential area. A tazer with a VERY high power setting.
Two weeks ago a dog chased me that had bitten a woman on a previous ride. Normally I step on it and outrun this mutt (not easy), but this time I went just fast enough to keep the dog right on my heels. Kept encouraging him along for nearly six miles. Hope his owners had fun with that.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
#5
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,557
Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 2,171 Times
in
1,462 Posts
#6
Jet Jockey
Whatever. I know two people who had some nasty crashes after a dog took them down with a jaw clamped on the ankle.
I have no patience for people who cannot control or adequately train their pets anymore.
What would you do if a coyote attacked? Or take your pick of animal. A dog is no different. A lot of dog owners idealize and even anthropomorphize their pets, but a dog is just an animal. If you forget that, you're asking for trouble.
I have no patience for people who cannot control or adequately train their pets anymore.
What would you do if a coyote attacked? Or take your pick of animal. A dog is no different. A lot of dog owners idealize and even anthropomorphize their pets, but a dog is just an animal. If you forget that, you're asking for trouble.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
#7
Maximus
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Whatever. I know two people who had some nasty crashes after a dog took them down with a jaw clamped on the ankle.
I have no patience for people who cannot control or adequately train their pets anymore.
What would you do if a coyote attacked? Or take your pick of animal. A dog is no different. A lot of dog owners idealize and even anthropomorphize their pets, but a dog is just an animal. If you forget that, you're asking for trouble.
I have no patience for people who cannot control or adequately train their pets anymore.
What would you do if a coyote attacked? Or take your pick of animal. A dog is no different. A lot of dog owners idealize and even anthropomorphize their pets, but a dog is just an animal. If you forget that, you're asking for trouble.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
If an owner has awareness of a dog's dangerous propensities, he or she is liable for any damage that dog causes.
As far as homeowners insurance goes, YMMV. Some won't cover certain "high risk" breeds, and those dog owners may be self-insuring their dogs.
Also, landlord's liability for a tenant's dog may vary from state to state. If the landlord isn't responsible, then good luck getting money out of the tenant. Liability is fine, but where there are no assets that can be attached, any judgment is just an expensive piece of toilet paper.
As far as homeowners insurance goes, YMMV. Some won't cover certain "high risk" breeds, and those dog owners may be self-insuring their dogs.
Also, landlord's liability for a tenant's dog may vary from state to state. If the landlord isn't responsible, then good luck getting money out of the tenant. Liability is fine, but where there are no assets that can be attached, any judgment is just an expensive piece of toilet paper.
#9
Senior Member
https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...-dogs-out.html
Their homeowners is paying for my medical bills. Well at least their insurance company is following up with us. I have a feeling that the dog owners are paying out of pocket to avoid insurance premium increases.
All else failing, wear a bike or helmet cam. I had one on. It's relatively cheap and it offers a permanent and impartial view to what happened. When I first stopped one of the owners half-heartedly suggested that maybe I was bleeding because I fell over. That's kind of laughable because I was bleeding from a puncture wound but imagine if I had road rash? It'd be hard to tell if I fell, then the dogs bit me, or if I feel because the dogs bit me.
When my wife showed up and casually commented that I record everything on every ride using a helmet cam all talk of me "falling over" went out the window.
(FYI I wear a cam whenever I race or train for somewhat morbid reasons, but the main motivation in getting one was when a guy intentionally took out a group of racers, including me - first broken bone in my life and I'd been racing 28 years at that point, and got away with it because there was no photographic or video evidence. Two of his teammates perjured themselves to help him and he escaped with essentially no penalty. I could have bought everyone in the race an HD helmet cam for the money I spent on medical deductibles and non-covered stuff. Instead I bought just one for me. In the two years since - he's a very active racer - I've caught him a number of times about to make a sketchy move, look back, see me and my cam, and not make the move. I'd like to think I'm doing my part to promote safe and sane racing. Incredibly he'd done the same thing just a week and change before, taking out teammates and friends of mine; if the officials had suspended him like they should have then the crash the following week wouldn't have happened. I ran into a guy that happened to be the cop on duty that day and he said the carnage was so great that his colleagues were coming over to check things out.)
Their homeowners is paying for my medical bills. Well at least their insurance company is following up with us. I have a feeling that the dog owners are paying out of pocket to avoid insurance premium increases.
All else failing, wear a bike or helmet cam. I had one on. It's relatively cheap and it offers a permanent and impartial view to what happened. When I first stopped one of the owners half-heartedly suggested that maybe I was bleeding because I fell over. That's kind of laughable because I was bleeding from a puncture wound but imagine if I had road rash? It'd be hard to tell if I fell, then the dogs bit me, or if I feel because the dogs bit me.
When my wife showed up and casually commented that I record everything on every ride using a helmet cam all talk of me "falling over" went out the window.
(FYI I wear a cam whenever I race or train for somewhat morbid reasons, but the main motivation in getting one was when a guy intentionally took out a group of racers, including me - first broken bone in my life and I'd been racing 28 years at that point, and got away with it because there was no photographic or video evidence. Two of his teammates perjured themselves to help him and he escaped with essentially no penalty. I could have bought everyone in the race an HD helmet cam for the money I spent on medical deductibles and non-covered stuff. Instead I bought just one for me. In the two years since - he's a very active racer - I've caught him a number of times about to make a sketchy move, look back, see me and my cam, and not make the move. I'd like to think I'm doing my part to promote safe and sane racing. Incredibly he'd done the same thing just a week and change before, taking out teammates and friends of mine; if the officials had suspended him like they should have then the crash the following week wouldn't have happened. I ran into a guy that happened to be the cop on duty that day and he said the carnage was so great that his colleagues were coming over to check things out.)
#10
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,430
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1107 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times
in
130 Posts
Whatever. I know two people who had some nasty crashes after a dog took them down with a jaw clamped on the ankle.
I have no patience for people who cannot control or adequately train their pets anymore.
What would you do if a coyote attacked? Or take your pick of animal. A dog is no different. A lot of dog owners idealize and even anthropomorphize their pets, but a dog is just an animal. If you forget that, you're asking for trouble.
I have no patience for people who cannot control or adequately train their pets anymore.
What would you do if a coyote attacked? Or take your pick of animal. A dog is no different. A lot of dog owners idealize and even anthropomorphize their pets, but a dog is just an animal. If you forget that, you're asking for trouble.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 124
Bikes: Motobecane
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Interesting responses. I like the helmet cam idea. And, I understand that it might be difficult to prove ownership of a dog - especially after the fact (wreck).
I wouldn't want to carry a gun because the added weight would hurt me going up hills. (Joking.) I've thought about pepper spray or something more powerful than, say, my water bottle; however, in this area I'm just as likely to be chased down by Bubba as I am to get away from the danger of a dog. Plus, there aren't exactly a lot of bikers in my immediate area. I could be setting myself up for a future near death experience. IE. "There's that guy that peppered the dog. Run him off the road. Nobody is around to see it."
Thus, the original post. There's not a lot I can do to remedy the situation causing me to accept the fact and wonder what I'd be able to do post-incident.
I wouldn't want to carry a gun because the added weight would hurt me going up hills. (Joking.) I've thought about pepper spray or something more powerful than, say, my water bottle; however, in this area I'm just as likely to be chased down by Bubba as I am to get away from the danger of a dog. Plus, there aren't exactly a lot of bikers in my immediate area. I could be setting myself up for a future near death experience. IE. "There's that guy that peppered the dog. Run him off the road. Nobody is around to see it."
Thus, the original post. There's not a lot I can do to remedy the situation causing me to accept the fact and wonder what I'd be able to do post-incident.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northeast United States
Posts: 1,147
Bikes: Tarmac, Focus Urban 8, Giant Hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Sorry you have to put up with feral dogs, and possibly feral owners. Knowing the leash law helps. Having evidence should you get bitten helps in a court case. Getting someone to pay up is another story and possibly not worth the hassle of court ; if the bite is severe enough you may need legal representation. As would the defendant.
If it were me I would avoid the area at all costs as nothing good can come out of it. Going fast wouldn't help as dogs are pretty quick and like those videos of antelope hitting MTB riders - they could always blindside you. In the end - no win scenario.
If it were me I would avoid the area at all costs as nothing good can come out of it. Going fast wouldn't help as dogs are pretty quick and like those videos of antelope hitting MTB riders - they could always blindside you. In the end - no win scenario.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GA
Posts: 1,155
Bikes: Helix, HonkyTonk, NailTrail
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
As comical as it is to imagine a 2 yr old toddler chasing down, tackling, and biting a cyclist. It's interesting that in your mind a dog and human child are interchangeable in an idea or topic. It's like some sort of severe Agnosia or something (not a medical professional). You should see a professional, I'm both worried, and curious.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
As comical as it is to imagine a 2 yr old toddler chasing down, tackling, and biting a cyclist. It's interesting that in your mind a dog and human child are interchangeable in an idea or topic. It's like some sort of severe Agnosia or something (not a medical professional). You should see a professional, I'm both worried, and curious.
If a child breaks items in a china shop, the parent is also financially responsible.
Different laws seem to have different cut-off ages for parent responsibility for actions of their children, the highest I know is 26-years-old for financial obligation for college tuition. It takes an act of God for the parents of a 18yo-25yo to not be obligated to contribute to college tuition. Even if the "child" has been financially independent since 18yo.
Also...
Bear spray or pepper spray work both against aggressive dogs and juvenile delinquents. You can spray and keep riding.
#16
You blink and it's gone.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundas, Ontario
Posts: 4,436
Bikes: Race bike, training bike, go fast bike and a trainer slave.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Last time I checked a child was a human being and a dog an animal...How bout we stick to comparing apples to apples, kay
Furthermore, I guess that means you can't defend yourself if someone has a mountain lion as a pet and it comes at you? I know that's a stupid analogy, but an animal is an animal...Simple as that...
Furthermore, I guess that means you can't defend yourself if someone has a mountain lion as a pet and it comes at you? I know that's a stupid analogy, but an animal is an animal...Simple as that...
#17
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,507
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3657 Post(s)
Liked 5,393 Times
in
2,738 Posts
In TN the owner can be charged with a felony if the dog is running loose and causes injury and/or damage. You should contact animal control for your county and have them cruise the area and leave warnings for the owners. You have an active bike club in Knoxville, they can probably give you specific local info.
#18
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,557
Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 2,171 Times
in
1,462 Posts
As comical as it is to imagine a 2 yr old toddler chasing down, tackling, and biting a cyclist. It's interesting that in your mind a dog and human child are interchangeable in an idea or topic. It's like some sort of severe Agnosia or something (not a medical professional). You should see a professional, I'm both worried, and curious.
Most of these posts fail to note the OPs issue - it's not one dog or even an aggressive dog. He said he ran into six dogs in a mile.
#19
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,430
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1107 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times
in
130 Posts
I know there have been tons of topics about those that have wrecked, what to do when chased, defense mechanisms, etc...
But I got to wondering what the legal liability is for the owners of said pets if they do harm or wreck a biker. I live in an area absolutely saturated with unleashed dogs. Just yesterday, I had to deal with 6 different dogs in less than 1 mile close to my home. I'm really getting sick of it. What am I supposed to do? Go from house to house calling the cops each time a dog runs off a porch and damn near kills me? I do my best to avoid these areas; however, it truly is impossible to ride anywhere around my house without coming into contact with multiple dogs. For reference, I live right on the border between a small city - Knoxville - and a rural setting. So, you have a lot of houses but very few neighborhoods that would act as a natural barrier to animals running wild due to kids/traffic. (I.E. Not city but not farmland either.)
Back to my question. I'm assuming that, as long as I'm not on someone's actual private property, that the owners of any dog that causes me to wreck or bites me would be legally at fault. Correct?
But I got to wondering what the legal liability is for the owners of said pets if they do harm or wreck a biker. I live in an area absolutely saturated with unleashed dogs. Just yesterday, I had to deal with 6 different dogs in less than 1 mile close to my home. I'm really getting sick of it. What am I supposed to do? Go from house to house calling the cops each time a dog runs off a porch and damn near kills me? I do my best to avoid these areas; however, it truly is impossible to ride anywhere around my house without coming into contact with multiple dogs. For reference, I live right on the border between a small city - Knoxville - and a rural setting. So, you have a lot of houses but very few neighborhoods that would act as a natural barrier to animals running wild due to kids/traffic. (I.E. Not city but not farmland either.)
Back to my question. I'm assuming that, as long as I'm not on someone's actual private property, that the owners of any dog that causes me to wreck or bites me would be legally at fault. Correct?
How exactly do you "deal" with dogs? Did they bite you and you had to fight back, or did they just run after you and bark? There are LOTS of stray dogs where I live. They are about teritory and they are happy to chase me around their "perimeter". I usually slow down, stop pedaling, give them a look in the eyes when they are near and shout "no, go home...", usualy does the trick. Never been bitten.
One more thing - dogs sense fear. If you're scared, you are in trouble. They will chase you for the fun of it and to show off if they see you're scared.
Giving them some bacon also does the trick - you'll make lots of friends in no time!
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,259
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4245 Post(s)
Liked 1,350 Times
in
936 Posts
Maybe, maybe not. If the area (county) doesn't have a leash law, the owners aren't really breaking the law. Dogs in the street are like children playing. The owners/parents are responsible but getting something more than medical expenses and repair to your bike should be it. In addition you say there are lots of dogs. A judge might ask why are you riding there knowing the are lots of dogs running loose?
In the US, dog owners are responsible for any damage their dogs cause regardless of "leash laws".
The issue might be proving ownership or proving that any particular dog was the cause.
I suppose that, with this: "but getting something more than medical expenses and repair to your bike should be it", you are talking about "pain and suffering". If so, then that's a very high target and people shouldn't expect it (as you said).
Last edited by njkayaker; 10-09-12 at 09:09 AM.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,259
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4245 Post(s)
Liked 1,350 Times
in
936 Posts
Just to be clear, the dog owner is still responsible for damages regardless of whether the owner has insurance coverage or not (I'm restating what you are saying)
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,259
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4245 Post(s)
Liked 1,350 Times
in
936 Posts
(FYI I wear a cam whenever I race or train for somewhat morbid reasons, but the main motivation in getting one was when a guy intentionally took out a group of racers, including me - first broken bone in my life and I'd been racing 28 years at that point, and got away with it because there was no photographic or video evidence. Two of his teammates perjured themselves to help him and he escaped with essentially no penalty. I could have bought everyone in the race an HD helmet cam for the money I spent on medical deductibles and non-covered stuff. Instead I bought just one for me. In the two years since - he's a very active racer - I've caught him a number of times about to make a sketchy move, look back, see me and my cam, and not make the move. I'd like to think I'm doing my part to promote safe and sane racing. Incredibly he'd done the same thing just a week and change before, taking out teammates and friends of mine; if the officials had suspended him like they should have then the crash the following week wouldn't have happened. I ran into a guy that happened to be the cop on duty that day and he said the carnage was so great that his colleagues were coming over to check things out.)
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: monroe (sw) wi
Posts: 1,344
Bikes: cannondale 400st, dean el diente, specialized hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
5 Posts
Wis. Stat. Ann., sec. 174.02(1)(a)
(a) Without notice. Subject to s. 895.045 and except as provided in s. 895.57 (4), the owner of a dog is liable for the full amount of damages caused by the dog injuring or causing injury to a person, domestic animal or property.
I had a friend who was taken out by a dog and sent a copy of the bills for his ER visit and bike rep. as well as a copy of the state statute. He got a check from the owner to cover all of his bills.
(a) Without notice. Subject to s. 895.045 and except as provided in s. 895.57 (4), the owner of a dog is liable for the full amount of damages caused by the dog injuring or causing injury to a person, domestic animal or property.
I had a friend who was taken out by a dog and sent a copy of the bills for his ER visit and bike rep. as well as a copy of the state statute. He got a check from the owner to cover all of his bills.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,259
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4245 Post(s)
Liked 1,350 Times
in
936 Posts
The act doesn't have to be "stupid". Parents are responsible for any damage they and their children (and their pets) cause.
#25
One legged rider
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moraga, CA
Posts: 1,390
Bikes: Kuota Kharma, Surly LHT, CAAD9, Bianchi fg/ss
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Different laws seem to have different cut-off ages for parent responsibility for actions of their children, the highest I know is 26-years-old for financial obligation for college tuition. It takes an act of God for the parents of a 18yo-25yo to not be obligated to contribute to college tuition. Even if the "child" has been financially independent since 18yo.