Question about 8speed to 10 speed conversion
11-06-12, 04:16 PM
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Question about 8speed to 10 speed conversion
Hey All,
I just started biking and enjoying the freedom and fitness associated with it. I purchased 2012 Specialized Secteur as my first bike and have thoroughly enjoyed the first 400 or so miles I have put on the bike. However, I've realized that I absolutely hate the shimano 2300 components that came standard on my bike and I am interested in a switch to 10 speed components.
From what I have been reading at the minimum I need 10 speed shifters, cassette and chain.
Now for my question, are these 3 pieces the only ones that I need to get up and running with a 10 speed setup? If it matters I plan on ordering Shimano 105 Shifters/Cassette/Chain from wiggle.
Thanks for any and all help!
Harry
I just started biking and enjoying the freedom and fitness associated with it. I purchased 2012 Specialized Secteur as my first bike and have thoroughly enjoyed the first 400 or so miles I have put on the bike. However, I've realized that I absolutely hate the shimano 2300 components that came standard on my bike and I am interested in a switch to 10 speed components.
From what I have been reading at the minimum I need 10 speed shifters, cassette and chain.
Now for my question, are these 3 pieces the only ones that I need to get up and running with a 10 speed setup? If it matters I plan on ordering Shimano 105 Shifters/Cassette/Chain from wiggle.
Thanks for any and all help!
Harry
11-06-12, 04:21 PM
#2
Fresh Garbage
Going with a Tiagra or 105 crank for the chainrings will probably improve the front shifting over whatever you have on there now.
11-06-12, 04:49 PM
#3
Full Member
It would seem after only 400 miles, the components should still be in good working order if adjusted and tuned correctly.
For the money, would it be more worth while to sell the bike and buy a higher grade? Or, talk to the LBS about taking it in on trade/$ towards a higher end model?
Just a couple thoughts.
11-06-12, 05:46 PM
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Just throwing the question out (not to start a "bash on 2300" thread) but what was it that you didn't like about the 2300 component set?
It would seem after only 400 miles, the components should still be in good working order if adjusted and tuned correctly.
For the money, would it be more worth while to sell the bike and buy a higher grade? Or, talk to the LBS about taking it in on trade/$ towards a higher end model?
Just a couple thoughts.
It would seem after only 400 miles, the components should still be in good working order if adjusted and tuned correctly.
For the money, would it be more worth while to sell the bike and buy a higher grade? Or, talk to the LBS about taking it in on trade/$ towards a higher end model?
Just a couple thoughts.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
11-06-12, 06:10 PM
#5
Senior Member
Plus with 2300, you get the benefit of being able to use 7/8 speed chains and cassettes, which are a third of the cost of 10-speed drivetrain consumables without any sacrifice to longevity or quality. If you are putting in decent road miles, you'll be replacing 3 chains and one cassette per year - run the numbers on this.
Another benefit of my Sora shifters is that the shift cable runs come out from the sides of the shifter bodies, and are not wrapped under the bar tape. This seems like a less 'elegant' or 'clean' solution, but because their are fewer tight corners on these cable runs, all things being equal, the shifting is crisper.
Finally, the 10-speed and even moreso 11-speed drivetrains simply represents an absurd 'arms race' of bike component manufacterers who have run dry of real innovation. Or perhaps planned obsolescence that forces the consumer into replacing the entire drivetrain every few years.
8 carefully selected cogs at the back are more than enough.
11-06-12, 06:19 PM
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+3 (or whatever). I won't go as far as Dave Mayer, but that 2300 stuff is fine for now. Upgrade after 4,000 miles not 400; 'earn' it.
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11-06-12, 06:59 PM
#7
SuperGimp
I'd wait until you need to replace some parts like chain / cassette and/or chainrings and then get a 105 groupset if that's what you have your heart set on. That'll run you around $500 for the whole shebang (shifters, DRs, brakes et. al.) assuming you don't just want a whole new bike by then.
11-06-12, 07:23 PM
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Well I don't have enough experience to comment on the 8sp 2300 cassette, but I did ride an Orbea Aqua with 2300 and I absolutely HATED the 2300 brifters with tiny little levers on the side to drop to smaller chain rings/cogs. They just felt wimpy and cheap to me. Plus I didn't like the look of the cables coming straight out the side of the brifters. I highly prefer the feel 105 brifters on my Felt with second levers just inside of the brake levers, and the look of both brake and shift cables coming out alongside the bars.
I sure am glad I went with a 105-equipped bike and would probably be in the same boat as OP if I had gotten a 2300 bike.
I did ride a Sora 9sp 2013 Trek with similar brifters and those felt nice, too. I probably would have bought it if I hadn't come across the deal on the Felt.
I sure am glad I went with a 105-equipped bike and would probably be in the same boat as OP if I had gotten a 2300 bike.
I did ride a Sora 9sp 2013 Trek with similar brifters and those felt nice, too. I probably would have bought it if I hadn't come across the deal on the Felt.
11-06-12, 07:56 PM
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Um... How is 2 cogs going to improve the performance of the drivetrain? I've ridden a lot with Shimano 8-speed Sora shifters, which have the same ergonomics as 2300, and I think they're great. In fact I like them better than any other Shimano shifters, because they are light, simple, and they most closely mimic the shifting action of Campagnolo Ergopower shifters. With the higher-end Shimano shifters, the brake levers double as the shifters - what is it with that? At least with 2300 and Sora, you get a separate thumb button for downshifts.
Plus with 2300, you get the benefit of being able to use 7/8 speed chains and cassettes, which are a third of the cost of 10-speed drivetrain consumables without any sacrifice to longevity or quality. If you are putting in decent road miles, you'll be replacing 3 chains and one cassette per year - run the numbers on this.
Another benefit of my Sora shifters is that the shift cable runs come out from the sides of the shifter bodies, and are not wrapped under the bar tape. This seems like a less 'elegant' or 'clean' solution, but because their are fewer tight corners on these cable runs, all things being equal, the shifting is crisper.
Finally, the 10-speed and even moreso 11-speed drivetrains simply represents an absurd 'arms race' of bike component manufacterers who have run dry of real innovation. Or perhaps planned obsolescence that forces the consumer into replacing the entire drivetrain every few years.
8 carefully selected cogs at the back are more than enough.
Plus with 2300, you get the benefit of being able to use 7/8 speed chains and cassettes, which are a third of the cost of 10-speed drivetrain consumables without any sacrifice to longevity or quality. If you are putting in decent road miles, you'll be replacing 3 chains and one cassette per year - run the numbers on this.
Another benefit of my Sora shifters is that the shift cable runs come out from the sides of the shifter bodies, and are not wrapped under the bar tape. This seems like a less 'elegant' or 'clean' solution, but because their are fewer tight corners on these cable runs, all things being equal, the shifting is crisper.
Finally, the 10-speed and even moreso 11-speed drivetrains simply represents an absurd 'arms race' of bike component manufacterers who have run dry of real innovation. Or perhaps planned obsolescence that forces the consumer into replacing the entire drivetrain every few years.
8 carefully selected cogs at the back are more than enough.
My biggest issue with the 2300 components are the shifters. I dislike the thumb shift to down shift, when i took the bike out for a test ride I thought I would be able to be comfortable with the thumb shifters but it hasn't happened. Im looking at about an initial $250 cash outlay to purchase the shifters chains and cassette plus what ever my LBS will charge to install. So, its not really that costly. If there is a cheaper way to replace just the shifters and keep the 8 speed I would interested in taking that route.
I have already planned out my next bike purchase being either a Caad 10 4-5/Super Six/Tarmac(105 Components at the minimum) The cost for a new bike is substantially higher than a couple hundred dollars, so it makes more sense for me to purchase a couple upgrades for my current frame. I plan on picking up a fluid trainer so this secteur will be my trainer/winter/and brother's bike when he wants to ride with me on weekends.
That's just how i'm currently thinking if it makes any sense to ya'll.
Harry
11-06-12, 11:14 PM
#10
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Another thing that can happen is that the chain may not drop and engage onto the chainring teeth during shifting. The chain will then skate over the tops of the teeth and you'll find yourself suddenly pedaling 300rpm and then getting pitched over the front end of the bike. This has happened to me when I mistakenly installed a 10-speed chain on a older crankset.
If you only hate your current shifters, and like everything else, consider some 10-speed Campagnolo shifters. These will perfectly shift your 8 cogs with your current Shimano derailleurs. The shifters cost alone will run you less than any Shimano-based solution, unless you find some old Shimano 600 8-speed STI shifters in a time capsule somewhere.
You may want to test drive the Campagnolo shifters first before you buy. I think the ergonomics of these shifters are superior to Shimano or SRAM, but try first.
11-07-12, 03:47 AM
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Metro I am there with you. I rode a 2007 Specialized with Sora and hated the thumb shifters. I also want a higher end bike and debated over upgrade vs new bike. But financially the new bike is further off. So when things wore out I upgraded- of course, that took close to 20,000 miles (original chain and cassette). The cassette and chain are not expensive, for 9-speed the total cost was under $100. The shifters are where the majority of the cost is.
I ended up buying a used 9-speed Tiagra shifter off eBay- and I am so glad I did. Not being able to shift from the drops with Sora was terrible. The Tiagra shifter is so much better- but again, I am comparing against 5 year old components. I also used 10 speed front SRAM chainrings (local shops only had Ultegra 9-speed chainrings available that cost twice as much).
It really is a matter of how much you want to spend to get the drivetrain you want. But I would consider 9-speed instead of 10, I think (haven't costed it out), that it will be less expensive and you will get the improved (different) ergonomics of the shifters that you are looking for.
I ended up buying a used 9-speed Tiagra shifter off eBay- and I am so glad I did. Not being able to shift from the drops with Sora was terrible. The Tiagra shifter is so much better- but again, I am comparing against 5 year old components. I also used 10 speed front SRAM chainrings (local shops only had Ultegra 9-speed chainrings available that cost twice as much).
It really is a matter of how much you want to spend to get the drivetrain you want. But I would consider 9-speed instead of 10, I think (haven't costed it out), that it will be less expensive and you will get the improved (different) ergonomics of the shifters that you are looking for.
11-07-12, 03:57 PM
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If you are going to do this - I'd agree with RedWolf that a simple move to 9-speed Tiagra is a solid option. Possible for under $200 with new parts, even. Grab a cassette/chain and these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Tiag...item5897fd83f3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-TIAG...item5d35ed7767
Older, used '4400' sets are even cheaper (but you might get what you pay for):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Tiag...item2a257962c9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Tiag...item5897fd83f3
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-TIAG...item5d35ed7767
Older, used '4400' sets are even cheaper (but you might get what you pay for):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Tiag...item2a257962c9
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
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Last edited by dtrain; 11-07-12 at 04:07 PM.
11-07-12, 08:14 PM
#13
Senior Member
Another thing that can happen is that the chain may not drop and engage onto the chainring teeth during shifting. The chain will then skate over the tops of the teeth and you'll find yourself suddenly pedaling 300rpm and then getting pitched over the front end of the bike. This has happened to me when I mistakenly installed a 10-speed chain on a older crankset.
If you only hate your current shifters, and like everything else, consider some 10-speed Campagnolo shifters. These will perfectly shift your 8 cogs with your current Shimano derailleurs. The shifters cost alone will run you less than any Shimano-based solution, unless you find some old Shimano 600 8-speed STI shifters in a time capsule somewhere.
More seriously:
The spacing of the rings on a modern 8-speed crankset should be no problem. 2300 is a modern crankset. If it does come to a problem, new chainrings would be considerably less expensive than a new crankset. But they probably won't be needed.
As for Campagnolo, I think this is a pretty terrible idea - I really advise against mongrel set-ups like this for non-tinkerers, or even for tinkerers who want their things to just work. I say this as a reformed inveterate tinkerer myself with some experience with these things: even these mongrel set-ups that supposedly "work perfectly" rarely do in practice. And buying 10-speed shifters to only shift 8 gears? Ick.
Ironically, you've hit on a great solution for the OP: buy some old Shimano 600 8-speed shifters. Or RSX. Or any other name that Shimano has sold 8-speed shifters under EXCEPT for Dura-Ace or Sora. The time capsule is called "Ebay." But you don't even need it - any bike shop that uses QBP as a distributor (so, basically every single LBS in the United States) can order you a brand NEW set of 8-speed shifters. They are sold as Shimano R500. The only cost to the OP then would be the shifters - no new chain or cassette required, but you get the same shifting action as Shimano's higher-end groups. Yes, they're two generations old now, but the quality is very good. Hard to go wrong, there.
11-07-12, 08:20 PM
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Well then if I were to go with the Tiagra option how about?
All Tiagra 10 speed components
Crank
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/shimchar465
Cassete
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...te/shimcass926
Chain
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...ai990000000000
Shifters
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...es/shimgrss330
That should be just about everything, the LBS will be able to reuse my brakes, derailers, bottom bracket?
Harry
All Tiagra 10 speed components
Crank
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/shimchar465
Cassete
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...te/shimcass926
Chain
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...ai990000000000
Shifters
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...es/shimgrss330
That should be just about everything, the LBS will be able to reuse my brakes, derailers, bottom bracket?
Harry
11-07-12, 09:17 PM
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agree here too! The folks I ride / race with turn there nose on my 105 mounted to an italian cf bike but until I wear them out or crash them off, they are staying. Probably have 8k miles on them at least and they shift fine. I am sure the sora could turn 3k miles or more.
11-07-12, 11:28 PM
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Well then if I were to go with the Tiagra option how about?
All Tiagra 10 speed components
Crank
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/shimchar465
Cassete
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...te/shimcass926
Chain
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...ai990000000000
Shifters
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...es/shimgrss330
That should be just about everything, the LBS will be able to reuse my brakes, derailers, bottom bracket?
Harry
All Tiagra 10 speed components
Crank
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/shimchar465
Cassete
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...te/shimcass926
Chain
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...ai990000000000
Shifters
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...es/shimgrss330
That should be just about everything, the LBS will be able to reuse my brakes, derailers, bottom bracket?
Harry
Yes, the brakes, derailers, bottom bracket should be okay. But Tiagra there would be better there as well.
How much more was a Tiagra spec'ed Secteur? <- nevermind - probably doesn't matter now.
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
'14 carbon Synapse - '12 CAAD 10 5 - '99 Gary Fisher Big Sur
Last edited by dtrain; 11-07-12 at 11:37 PM.
11-08-12, 11:03 AM
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Well then if I were to go with the Tiagra option how about?
All Tiagra 10 speed components
Crank
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/shimchar465
Cassete
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...te/shimcass926
Chain
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...ai990000000000
Shifters
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...es/shimgrss330
That should be just about everything, the LBS will be able to reuse my brakes, derailers, bottom bracket?
Harry
All Tiagra 10 speed components
Crank
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...et/shimchar465
Cassete
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...te/shimcass926
Chain
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...ai990000000000
Shifters
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/roa...es/shimgrss330
That should be just about everything, the LBS will be able to reuse my brakes, derailers, bottom bracket?
Harry
11-08-12, 11:20 AM
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As grolby mentioned above, these r500's are just like the 4400 Tiagra's, but for 8 speed:
https://www.cambriabike.com/Shimano-S...ack-8Speed.asp
That's all you would need to dump the thumb lever of the 2300's. (no cassette, chain, crank, etc.) I still think that's a bit much, but is certainly more reasonable.
https://www.cambriabike.com/Shimano-S...ack-8Speed.asp
That's all you would need to dump the thumb lever of the 2300's. (no cassette, chain, crank, etc.) I still think that's a bit much, but is certainly more reasonable.
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
'14 carbon Synapse - '12 CAAD 10 5 - '99 Gary Fisher Big Sur
Last edited by dtrain; 11-08-12 at 11:37 AM.
11-08-12, 11:26 AM
#19
Senior Member
I have done hundreds of bike related purchases off of Ebay and I would never consider buying used STI shifters without having them in my hands. When these shifters just start going bad, they end up on auction or on Craiglist. Or when they have to be dumped as part of a product recall or when shop guys strip them off of a customers blke during an 'upgrade' and auction them off for beer money.
11-08-12, 11:33 AM
#20
Senior Member
As grolby mentioned above, these r500's are just like the 4400 Tiagra's, but for 8 speed:
https://www.cambriabike.com/Shimano-S...ack-8Speed.asp
That's all you would need to dump the thumb lever of the 2300's. (no cassette, chain, crank, etc.) I still thatink that's a bit much, but is certainly more reasonable.
https://www.cambriabike.com/Shimano-S...ack-8Speed.asp
That's all you would need to dump the thumb lever of the 2300's. (no cassette, chain, crank, etc.) I still thatink that's a bit much, but is certainly more reasonable.
A good idea, except that the OP needs a front shifter that is double ring compatible.. These are for a triple.
Although these shifters are of the superior (older) design where the shift cable housing comes out of the sides of the shifter bodies and is not wrapped under the bar tape. Lower cable drag & smoother shifting.
11-08-12, 11:37 AM
#21
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They are 'double-triple' -- work for either two or three chainrings.
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
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"The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson
'14 carbon Synapse - '12 CAAD 10 5 - '99 Gary Fisher Big Sur
11-08-12, 12:05 PM
#22
Senior Member
There is a big difference in the geometry and therefore the cable pull requirements of Shimano double and triple road front derailleurs. At least the ones in my bin. You may be right that this will work on a double, but I would do some researching of this first. Double cranksets are far less sensitive to cable pull than the triples, as they are binary - they have a high position, and they have a low position.
I would only be concerned that the triple-compatible shifter in question provides enough cable pull to lift the derailleur from the little to the big rings, and that the shifting will not require a bunch of ongoing trimming to avoid annoying grinding of the chain on the derailleur cage.
A little digging into Shimano's product documentation is justified here.
I would only be concerned that the triple-compatible shifter in question provides enough cable pull to lift the derailleur from the little to the big rings, and that the shifting will not require a bunch of ongoing trimming to avoid annoying grinding of the chain on the derailleur cage.
A little digging into Shimano's product documentation is justified here.
11-08-12, 12:44 PM
#23
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OP - Don't buy a 10-speed drivetrain for your bike. It's a waste. I know, it's your money, but...
Go for 8-speed brifters. That's much smarter from where you're situated now. Slow down. Take a deep breath. Think ahead two years... save your money for the next bike. Don't needlessly upgrade this one.
Go for 8-speed brifters. That's much smarter from where you're situated now. Slow down. Take a deep breath. Think ahead two years... save your money for the next bike. Don't needlessly upgrade this one.
11-09-12, 03:11 AM
#24
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Do not go the rsx route. All of those brifters are likely to be worn out or sticky by now. The double/triple on the 600 shouldn't offer any significant issue with operation...it is likely that your 2300 front is the same...
11-09-12, 07:57 AM
#25
The Weird Beard
Join Date: May 2005
Location: COS
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OP - Don't buy a 10-speed drivetrain for your bike. It's a waste. I know, it's your money, but...
Go for 8-speed brifters. That's much smarter from where you're situated now. Slow down. Take a deep breath. Think ahead two years... save your money for the next bike. Don't needlessly upgrade this one.
Go for 8-speed brifters. That's much smarter from where you're situated now. Slow down. Take a deep breath. Think ahead two years... save your money for the next bike. Don't needlessly upgrade this one.
