thechemist

So is it practical to use say 50-60mm carbon wheels for traing as well as races? I am debating 30mm training wheels and way down the road 60mm but if i can get away with one nice set i wohld rather do that.

Nagrom_

Why would you train on carbon at all?

Breitling

Train heavy, race light

thechemist

I want to be able to understand how they feel and work before racing them and sadly I am vain so if i have carbon id rather uase it?

Nagrom_

Then why ask for opinions if you don't want them?

thechemist

There are plenty of people who train on carbon my question pertains to how deep people go for regular training wheels.

bsektzer

I got a not to be missed deal set of Reynolds Assault clincher rims a while back and built them up on a pair of CK R45 hubs I had on hand. I've been using these as my everyday wheels for about 1600 miles so far without problems. About the only "practical" thing about them is that between spokes, nipples and rims, I doubt if I have $600 invested in them. I'm sure they'd make me faster if I put more miles on them, but the same can be said for any other wheel set I'll ever own.

carpediemracing 

If you want them then get them. You can ride whatever you want. Personally I sometimes like training on fast wheels that sing under the bike, other days I want to go slow and prefer dull, heavy wheels.

When I had Reynolds DV46 tubulars (for races) I bought a pair of DV46 clinchers and trained on them. I even flew with them (and the bike) to a used-to-be annual visit to warmer temps during the winter. Between the two wheel sets I broke a spoke in each set (front tubular, rear clincher) but otherwise didn't do much with them. With identical hubs I could swap wheels and the derailleurs would be spot on. I had some aluminum rimmed wheels too but I rarely rode them except in the fall/winter.

In 2010 I went to wide tubulars (HED Stinger 6s) and ended up with two sets of clinchers, Bastogne/Ardennes and a Jet 6/9 set. Although I believe in the "train heavy race light" mantra the Jets were so heavy that I have basically given up on them. With relatively heavy duty clinchers, no special tubes or anything, the rear wheel alone is 600g heavier than the rear Stinger 6. I haven't weighed the fronts so I don't know the difference there but the hubs and spokes are the same between the three sets of wheels - the difference is in the rim.

If/when HED comes out with the Vanquish (i.e. clincher version of the all carbon Stinger 6) I'd consider getting them for training. I'm also contemplating the wide carbon clinchers now coming out of Asia (like the Neuvation C45 clincher).

As far as depth goes I found that the DV46s were not fun once I hit about 50 mph in a straight line, especially if there were strong gusts (like an 18-wheeler passing me 5-8 feet away at 60 mph). If you stay under 45-50 mph then I think you can go to a pointy 50mm or a rounded 60+ mm rim. With the Jet 6/9 set (not SCT so more pointy than rounded) I was good to the same speed, about 50 mph. Drafting trucks and such at that speed got a bit dicey, especially when I dropped out of the draft.

The above only really applies to the front wheel. You can pretty much run a deep rear wheel whenever you want. I trained a bit on the Jet 9 rear with a Bastogne/Ardennes front, and that's totally stable at any speeds I hit, even with trucks nearby etc.

I had the Jets and Bastognes during this training camp trip, in 2011, my last one. I started off riding just the Jets, went to using the front Bastogne with the rear Jet 9, and then finally to just the Bastognes. The trend has only continued here at home.

Video of me using either the Jet 6 front or the Bastogne. When I look down you can tell which wheel I'm using. I believe I used a Jet 9 during most of this clip.

Start of the camp - I had the new black frame shipped to my host's house, and I took this picture before I rode to the local shop to get the headset pressed into the frame:


Middle of camp - I scared myself a few times with the Jet 6 front so abandoned it in favor of the Bastogne front:


End of camp - I did a crit (Red Trolley) on the second last day of my camp, and even though it was a race, I decided to abandon aero in favor of weight:

cvall91

I use a set of no name 50mm clinchers as my daily's. They have about 2000 miles on them and now is when I need to get them trued. There are no hills where I live so it's all flat. Don't really care how impractable they might be, especially in heavy cross winds. Makes me think my bike looks good which makes me happy.

pdedes

i use boyd 50mm clinchers in fair weather. i will ride them on dirt and gravel, but not in the rain. last spring summer and this, about 10000 km. aluminum the rest of the time.

Inertianinja

don't listen to the freds who would have you riding some 23lb steel bike with open pros for "training". I ride 50mm carbon clinchers on the daily. I race on the same wheels. use the equipment you like.

datlas 

You can use them, but if you are light you may have issues in crosswinds.

BTW I use Williams 38mm carbon clinchers as everyday wheels from May through September.

Vaio_s

I would say it depends on who you are and what kind of rides you like to do. I'm a really light guy, and my solo rides usually involve climbing, but I do also do some fast and flat group rides. Since I'm so skinny, I thought it'd be nice to get a pair of deep carbon wheels so that I'd have a better chance of keeping up on the flats. In the end though, I decided that it wasn't worth it. I'd get blown around too much by the deep wheels, and I wouldn't feel comfortable descending on full-carbon clinchers (and alloy-carbon wheels are really heavy). So now I just ride around on 1500g shallow alloy rims, and that works for me.

If you're a larger guy who only rides flat rides, I don't see the problem with using carbon wheels full time. One of my coworkers rides with a 50mm deep set of alloy-carbons and another rides with 50mm full carbons, both clinchers. They both love their wheels.

vesteroid

I ride a set of 45mm power tap carbons for training, or shorter club rides....for whatever reason if i am going over 60 I throw on the aluminum rims

I <3 Robots

I use a set of 404 tubulars...everywhere...

thechemist

Really? how many miles are you getting in weekly?


I am usually around 150-160lbs @6"1' . I typically ride anywhere from 1000 to 4000ft of elevation. Nothing crazy but my team would consider me a "climber". I have great smooth roads in my area and do alot of solo riding commuting.


CDR- Hoping you would chim in. I REALLY like the idea of a deep back and ardennes/bastonage front. The stinger rear would be tubular. Would you find running a tubular rear 24/7 a hassle? any recommendations for a deep clincher rear? I don't mind staying tubular either if it isent a huge hassle..


Thanks everyone!~ very helpful

StanSeven

I use Zipp 404s for everything. Prior to getting them last year, I had Zipp 303's for five years with about 15,000 miles and zero problems or adjustments.

The only thing I don't use them for is riding in the rain because I rid ein lots of traffic.

thechemist

Awesome!! Are you running tubular or clincher, thanks for the input!

youcoming

I ride a set of DA 7850 50mm clinchers, best wheels ever. I could use RS10's R500's or bontrager RXL'S but the DA's never come off. I'm 6'1" at 210lbs and I've never even had to true these and have 18,000km on them. I say ride what you like, hey every ride could be your last so why save the good stuff for a special ride?

xjustice09x

I use Reynolds DV3K (48mm rims) as my every day wheel. If there is lots of climbing ill switch to Reynolds MV32 (32mm).

It depends on what kind of riding you do and where you ride for if I would recommend carbon for every day riding. The braking isnt as good as aluminum especially when wet. If you ride alot in the rain I would recommend having a wheelset with an aluminum brake track around. If its extremely hilly and you like to ride the brakes on long steep descents carbon may not be the best choice for you.

carpediemracing 

I like the setup with the tall rear and shallow front but from a practical point of view a tall front makes a much bigger difference. I used to race on a Specialized TriSPoke front (aka HED3) and a box section rear wheel. This season I'll be running either Stinger 6s or a Stinger 7/9 combo (or maybe a 6/9 combo, even a 7/6 combo if there's a short hill and not much wind) - with the rounded profile rims it's possible to run tall rims even in relatively heavy gusts, and for me, in crits, I rarely break 40 mph and rarely get hit by more than a 20 or 30 mph gust.

Tall wheels work best in cross-tailwinds. I'll run the tallest wheels I can if I know there's wind, i.e. on a crit at some point I'll have a tailwind because I'm doing laps. If there's no wind the tall wheels aren't as beneficial.

I consider myself tubular proficient but for training I don't think it's worth it. I train on the Ardennes for the most part, and generally speaking I do very flat rides, under 500' elevation an hour. After all this I want to try the Jets again, like the time before, the time before that, and the time before that.

For braking I tend to brake hard when I need to and I rarely, if ever, ride the brakes. Carbon wheels work fine for that style of braking, and therefore for me, even on 30+ minute descents, the first 15 minutes of it all switchbacks. Aluminum rims brake up to a certain level and then taper. Carbon wheels take a while to grip but then they brake very hard. I don't have scientific evidence, just a couple terrifying descents in the rain on aluminum rims after a couple years of riding only carbons.

AMFJ

I bounce between boyd 50mm clinchers and boyd 38mm tubulars. Been doing it for a year. No issues at all.

I'm using the 38mm wheels right now for cross racing. As soon as that season is over, I will put my road tires back on them.

If you are going to use deep profile wheels, I wouldn't use a crit as the first time test of them. I'd use them in training to get used to what wind might or might not do to you.

dtrain

I only use my carbon wheels for coffee runs and errands.

Trailblazer3

November 38's most of the time during race season -April thru August. Only time I'll swap is if its wet/crappy out, or if there's a bigger gap between races. I prefer to train with what I intent to race on for at least 2 weeks prior to an event, just to tune into how the bike handles.

StanSeven

I have clinchers