Sidney Porter

One correction Bikes Direct is a LBS in Jacksonville FL. You can buy their Motobecanes, Dawes Merciers etc. They also run stores in other parts of FL under the name cycle spectrum. You are correct that you can only buy those brands from them but it doesn't have to be online.

JakiChan

Because the facts aren't really going to tell you what you want to know. They didn't for me, at least. I did a TON of research and feel like I wasted a lot of time tracing down little details when I needed to just get out there and ride. (Then again, I enjoy the shopping process.)

Most people that I know who are shopping for bikes set a price range they're willing to pay. Within that price range it generally turns out that the bikes from the various manufactures are pretty similarly equipped. At least it did in my research. At $3500 I was pretty much looking at Ultegra bikes. I didn't see a lot of "step down in frame and step up in components" among the brands that I shopped. If you get down a bit farther then you can get in to upper-end aluminum vs low-end carbon, I admit. But for me that wasn't the issue. There were all sorts of claims from the various makers about stiffness, vertical compliance, etc. But none of that told me what a few simple test rides did. Maybe someday I'll be the kind of rider who can look at the geometry numbers on a bike and know what works for me. However in my case it did take a few test rides to at least rule some things like.

A friend I ride with who has been riding a long time and is currently bike shopping to replace his Klein and is looking at (to me) exotic brands like Time and whatnot. He's still taking them out on multiple test rides and I'm pretty sure that at the prices he's talking he's going to be buying a "high end" bike. Numbers and data aren't going to tell me what the bike feels like to ride, and that's what sold me on what I bought. Most of the folks I know who ride operate in a similar way.

Mr. Fly

You may be on to something there. At the very high end (read: customs), there is no test ride possible at all.

Psimet2001 

Nah...luckily e-mail is now mostly under control. Still takes me a while to get back to some, but I have an employee that knows what she's doing (structural engineer and avid cyclist/racer for years). We discuss each spec, but she does the physical typing and responses while I build. Problem is all the crap that comes across social media. Hard to track in line with everything else.

Velonews was great. Better has been the connections that I have been building that it helped me to fully establish. I am more in connection with key teams/riders/ industry people than I have ever been. Nice thing about it is that you get genuine consideration when you pose a question or offer up a solution. That's all I could ask for. My work speaks for itself.

Considering this week I am finishing a lat minute build for a Canadian National Team rider for the World Championships this weekend as well as getting out some wheels for photos for Vanderkitten, working on new rim designs, hub redesigns, while staying on top of finances, build queue, team, kit, etc....and family.........yeah...today is a good day.

StanSeven

Sure there is. You may not get the exact size of the customer but it usually gets close enough to tell. Several Calfee and Parlee riders here said they did test rides before deciding - one person said the LBS owner even had another customer bring his bike in for someone to test.

Psimet2001 

Yes...you will...if you keep riding.

Turns out you will never discover on a test ride what you will discover over a season of training and racing on a rig. That information leads you to make different decisions the next year. Yes, many of us ride a new rig every year.

At this point I can tell you from looking at the geometry, not only what frame size I need, but what stem, seatpost length and how many spacers and whether or not I am going to like the setup.

The ride feel....sure - that will come when I put my butt on it, but in general test rides are HIGHLY overrated once you get past the point of "OMG this is my first 'real' high end bike - I don't know what to do!!"

roadwarrior

This is a really good post and fwiw you not alone and what I hear is that legitimate questions do not get answered in a satisfactory manner mostly due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the seller. In my personal case, it's why I spend a lot of time with the customer answering questions (because I have ridden all the stuff we sell at least the frames)....and i suggest to any buyer find out the backgorund of the seller and what they ride if they are going to another shop. I also tell them to ask to be shown the best bike on a particular frame to see how good that frame really is. For example, the CAAD10 carries a prce from $1,500 up to over three grand, it is that good.

That's the research i try to help my customrs with.

Honestly, it's why I do not find test rides an issue because we can usually communicate about the frame...and generally that it all I am going to talk about because that is the most importatnt part.

JakiChan

You can "communicate" about the frame, I suppose, but how are you going to be able to tell me what I'm comfortable with?

Numerous experts told me, for example, that the Domane was the bees knees. I rode it and found it to be twitchy and it made me very nervous. Every seller is going to say that the brands they carry are the best. A Trek dealer isn't going to tell me to go buy a Roubaix. But a test ride did let me decide between two bikes that, on paper (in terms of equipment spec) were very similar. If I had listened to the seller who was convinced it was the right bike for me I'd be very unhappy right now.

MinnMan

I'm curious to learn why you learn things about your bikes by riding them but you are skeptical that your customers will learn much from a test ride.

PRus

One of the differences in wanting a test ride may be that on a $2000.00 bike the buyer may be expecting to be able to head out and ride without investing more money into fine tuning it.
If one can afford a high end bike, the additional cost of a professional fitting with possible change out of stem ,seat or seat post would be a much smaller expense in propotion to the total cost.

guadzilla

Roadwarrior, I have a question for you - how would you handle a situation like mine? I have a pretty nice Ridley, nicely specced out with good wheels. I know my frame size and also what features I want in a frame.

I am thinking of treating myself to a top-of-the-line frame, and am trying to decide between a Venge, a S5, a C'dale EVO and a Dogma. Let's say you carry the Venge and the EVO. I've test ridden the S5 and the Dogma, and am trying to figure out what the Venge and EVO feel like when climbing and sprinting. The Venge might be a good compromise between the S5 and the Dogma, while the EVO might make me forget this whole aero-bike-nonsense. While I want an aero bike, stiffness and handling is more important to me.

So I walk into your store and give you this info. I would expect the store to set me up with a bike and let me take it for a test ride (even though I have bought all my bikes online so far, living where I do, this is one purchase where i want to test-ride before committing). Would you handle it any differently?

Genuine question - am curious how you'd handle it.

oldbobcat

It's interesting that the brands that aren't especially known for being exotic--Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, Felt, etc--are very strict about protecting their prices and their bricks-and-mortar dealers. The exotics--Pinarello, BMC, Merckx, Orbea, BH, Ridley, etc.--all have a strong presence on the web. I doubt their internet prices beat what a shop will do for you once you start talking about the build, though.

roadwarrior

Good for you. Fact is that your customer base, from what I can see are very knowlegable people and know what they are getting and are not looking for wheels in a forum like this. Which is what you want.

Keep up the good work.

roadwarrior

My guess is if you add the sales for all the "exotics" together, they don't come close to any one of the ones you name. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

It is very hard to carry an "exotic brand" due to what it costs to do that for a main line shop. There was one like that not too far from me...Cervelo, BMC, and one other one I have forgotten. A friend of mine and I went to look at the shop, a week before Christmas. I left our shop, it was apcked, walked into ths onenot one customer. Cheapest bike was about $3,500....a month later he was closed.

roadwarrior

First, i would tell you that the only one of those I sell is the EVO. Second, I would let you see frame prices and see if Cannondale even had any Evo frames available for sale. Since I own one, I can give you a really good description of what the ride is like...and I have one you could ride to your heart's content in our lot. You mentioned climbing...I am in the midwest so the speed bump in the parking lot is a category four climb.

I find this interesting....if an Evo does not prevent Sagan from beating the daylights out of people in sprints, why worry about an aero frame? Further, when riders switch teams they can ride any of these wthout an issue as long as the fit works. These are all top frames.

Bottom line, before I did anything I'd even see if Cannondale was selling any of these frames give the price and go from there. Color may matter to you as well. Not all companies really want to sell frames so it is best to check first.

These frames take a long time to make so availability can be lmited. Heck, I waited four months for my complete Cannondale.

roadwarrior

The rider may think that, but in the sales process (especially if they are planning to ridemore miles) I am going to inform them of needing to get the total fit checked. Just as many two grand buyers need fine tuning as the high end riders.

I can sell you a bike that is below two grand wth a frame that has a component package that is well over three grand. That is a top frame. Still needs to be set up properly. I can get you the exact frame size you need on the sales floor with a stem setup based o your torso length. But from there I am eyeballing it and I would never do that myself...so I am going to suggest additional setups. But that is totally your call.

roadwarrior

After asking you a lot of questions about your past riding, what you are riding now and why you picked that bike, and what your goals are, and some other questions I can suggest things that you may find fit your needs. Since you strike me as somewhat analytical, I am going to get into some detail as to why I think that might work. If you ask me how I know, I can share my background with you so you know how I can develop my opinion. Last, I would pull a couple of bikes for you to start with, I get your feedback and we go from there. But if you want to go for a long off the lot ride, I can't do that. Generally, we do company days several times a year and the majority of people looking to make a purchase like this (like you) take their time. So I might suggest waiting for that as they have bikes you can ride to your heart's content. I cannot do that with an inventory bike. Honestly, i just do not run into that many "I don't know what I want" customers in this arena.

Bottom line, not every store can help every customer. We will accomodate as much as we can, but sometimes it just does not work.

Here's what I find...I don't tell a customer our brands are best although I get asked that question a lot along wth what I ride. And I explain that I ride what I ride due to relationship but I could happily ride anything we sell. I generally give the customer all the answers they want. What I find is while I may not sell them a bike they generally become customers. It is not about me selling stuff. It's about me helping you solve a problem and if I do that, even if I do not sell you the solution, we generally get business from you and that is what we are all after.

roadwarrior

Because of background, and further the experience of having served thousands of people and what I have experienced in that process. It's not foolproof, but I generally hear comments that I can tell they read in a magazine. I generally use a lot of questions to help me figure out who the customer is, what their riding background is and that helps me know what might happen. For some riders I will suggest things to look for. For others I don't say much at all.

My point is that the guys that make their living riding this stuff could switch back and forth without an issue and be very happy if the geometry is right. So while I enjoy having the conversation about feel of a frame, a lot of what I hear is pre-planted by the reading they have done, or what someone told them. But your mileage may vary.

Herbie53

I've been looking at some custom bikes (custom sizing, geometry, carbon layup and paint). Pretty high end price wise and it is not possible to ride one before purchase.

roadwarrior

Some shops have demo bikes, but they obviously will not be custom cut for you. We had a couple of Serotta demo bikes and one, the Mei Vici fit a guy exactly...he got a top frame and a brand new Sram Red groupset for a screaming deal. We had the bike for a couple of years, but it had not been ridden that much, but we did have a record of how many times it left the shop and for how long.

roadwarrior

Exactly.

StanSeven

What custom bikes are you looking at? I'm in your area and owned two customs plus tried several others. My current is a Guru and I was able to do a long test ride before finally deciding.

Herbie53

Alchemy and Guru. I took a short spin on an Alchemy that was to small. It felt quick (too quick really). I ride a 58 and most demo bikes are 56s or smaller. It's just how it is.

StanSeven

Call the Guru dealer in Annapolis. If he doesn't have a bike in stock that size, he probably can get one for you. That's where I got mine and the owner (Stu) is a pleasure to work with

Herbie53

That's my teams shop. I'm in no rush, selling a boat first.