thedave80

To make a long story short I'm currently deployed to a location that fortunately allowed my to bring my bike but has no shops that are available to me. I've been working on my bike fit and am getting pretty close as far as the saddle goes but I am not happy with the stem/handlebars and am looking to make changes. The internet is my only reference right now and I could use some outside opinions. This is the bike right now: It's got a 90mm 25 degree stem and a specialized handlebar that I do not like. The way the bars are set up is the most comfortable position I can find and it puts a lot of pressure on my palms. I have a FSA wing pro bar coming though and from what i've read that will be great for what I am looking for.

I'm trying to figure out the stem. I got it when the bike had a different fork on it that had a too short steer tube. That has since been replaced. The drop right now is about 1.5-2" and for the most part feels pretty good. My back starts getting sore after 30 miles or so but a lot of that is due I think to my flexibility not being so great still. My legs feel good and my posterier feels good.



So here is the best pictures I could get of my riding position. I'm not looking for a racing fit but a good position that I can ride in all day. I think my stem isn't right but I'm not sure where to go with it. Any advice on where to go with the bike would be greatly appreciated.

If you've hung in this far, thanks. I know this is not a good way to go about getting set up on a bike but i'm coming up on the limits of what I know to do and could definately use some outside opinions

Dave

TrojanHorse

That looks like a no-drop from where I'm sitting, not 2". It also looks like your saddle is too far back (based on your foreleg being nearly vertical in the pics with your pedal level to the floor). Try scooting that forward an inch or so and see if you can tell the difference. It also looks like your frame is a little too big for you. I'm basing that on the fact that your set up looks identical to my old bike... which was too big for me. See it here:



Aside from your sore back, are you experiencing any other issues?

ultraman6970

To me looks ok, way better than other stuff we have seen here.

Based in the problems you mention, the back hurts, the whole back? the lower back? If the lower back hurts is because of the stem, I really think you need to flip the stem or swap it for something normal in the 11 cm range, no more looking up stems. The other thing is that the handling gets better, sure your riding is erratic too.

Only from the pictures you look ok but the stem part will take care of the back pain.

Good luck.

ultraman6970

TH, looks almost the same bike

The Dave you should be looking kind'a how your bike should look with TH picture.

Forgot this, I would put a toupe in that bicycle, that will help to the fit, the saddle he has right not is as tick as a mattress (nothing wrong with that) but with a lower and firmer saddle the saddle will go up like 2 cms and harder saddles work better in longer rides than mattresses ones, unless this guy really need something so thick as a saddle.

Good luck op.

thedave80

There is a drop, although looking at the picture it doesn't really show it. 2" might be generous but it is in the 1-2" range. The issues I have are my lower back starts to tighten up and gets sore after doing longer rides and it feels like there is excess pressure on my palms.

So possibly to compensate for a too short stem the saddle is too far back? I've had it foward before but I start feeling hunched over.
edit: trojanhorse I can't see your picture on my work computer but i'll take a look when i get back to my room

rowebr

If your legs and rear feel good, that is a good sign that the fit is at least in the ballpark. How long do you ride before the hand and back start to bother you?

TrojanHorse recommended changing the saddle fore-aft position. An inch is actually a big change in the saddle fore-aft adjustment. I would recommend making a smaller change (1cm, or maybe 0.5 inch) and taking a ride to see how it feels, but I'm not even sure that your saddle fore-aft needs any changes.

In the picture with your right leg almost straight, are you pushing with your hands and arms to prevent yourself from sliding forward? If so, the problem with hand and back pain might be addressed by tilting your saddle a bit higher up at the nose so that you can sit on it without sliding forward. If you try that, you may also find that you need to lower the saddle height just a touch. That said, I think its best to proceed by trying one small change at a time so you can isolate what works.

thedave80

In riding position I can take my arms off the bars and not slide forward or backward so I don't think it's the saddle angle.

Altbark

You probably only have to do a few things to get that bike fitting the way you want. It looks like a big frame but then you look like a pretty big fellow. I wouldn't change the tilt of the seat because a saddle should be more or less level and it's working for you. I think the height is ok as well - just looking at the pictures.

But I do think the seat is too far back. I like to set up my bikes so that when I look straight down I'm more or less staring at the front axle. You seem to be too far back to do that(think ballpark). The stem might be a tad short for you once the saddle is moved forward. I'm five foot seven and I run 90mm 6 degree stem on my bike. Something around 110mm or longer might work for you. I use FSA compact bars on all my road bikes and they seem to work well for me.

The amount of drop between bars and saddle should be based upon what you are going to do with the bike, your physical condition and the need to be able to look forward while in the drops for extended periods of time without breaking your neck.

The nice thing about your setup issues is that everything will be reversible should you not like how things feel. Other than the stem - you might have to experiment a bit. I can ride in the drops all day with all my bikes without killing my back or wrecking the "boys". Good luck. Al

thedave80

It sounds like the general consensus is that the seats a bit far back and the stem is too short. I'm leaning towards a 110 mm stem then as a replacment, does that sound about right?

NCbiker

Take this for what it's worth. Remember it's free info and you usually get what you pay for.

I took the picture you posted and rotated it so that the wheels are horizontal. I then drew a vertical line down from the front of your knee. A good starting point for the fore and aft position of your saddle is where your pedal spindle intersects this line. I can't tell exactly where the spindle is in the photo, but maybe you can. I also drew a line from your eyes to the front axle. I like others find the best handlebar position reach wise is when this line intersects the top of the handle bars. It would appear that you are slightly forward of this point. You can correct this in one of two ways. By moving the saddle back, or moving the bars forward. If you have your knee over the pedal spindle, you don't want move the saddle back much. If it's about right, then you would want a longer stem so that you line of sight intersects the bars top. You say you feel like you have to much weight on your hands. Either moving the saddle back, or bars forward is going to change your balance and reduce the weight on your hands.

Hope this helps!

dralways

Keep in mind a sore back can be a result of not enough time in the saddle. This happened to me after 125ish miles after an extended break and went away completely after another 50ish.

TrojanHorse

Nobody's mentioned it but another factor is just general core strength - feel free to hit the google to search for core exercises for cycling.

And don't go changing a ton of things at once, I'd do one thing at most per week and give yourself time to get used to the change.

Where are you deployed that you get to bring a bike? I was in the Navy and when we deployed, we got to bring soap and a deck of cards.

Campag4life

I would say you ride in a very good recreational position that you should be both comfortable and fast on.
Nice 45 deg back angle hood position.

You obviously are a big guy and look to be over 6' tall.
How tall are you and what is your cycling inseam?

If you want better perspective...measure your saddle tip to handlebar center position and drop a plum line off the front nose of the saddle and measure the horizontal distance to your bottom bracket and post the dimensions here.

You and I ride in close to the same position.

Lastly, do you know the size of your frame and manufacturer? Very tall head tube...looks like a 62-64cm.


Thank you for your service and stay safe.

RollCNY

Food for thought: do you have a cycle trainer (not a person, but the device)? If so, videotape yourself riding. Reason I say this is that in the middle photo, with crank parallel, you are heel down. In last picture, bottom of stroke, you are heel up. Lots of folks set saddle height based on a slow speed circle, and their heel isn't positioned the way they ride.

if you are a natural heel down guy (which I am, so not casting aspersions), set your saddle correctly. If set based on a parallel foot, you will rock your pelvis when you default to natural.

If you can videotape, it is easy to see.

thedave80

I'm 6'3" and at the moment around 238, so yeah i'm a little on the large side, my inseam is about 34-35". Trojanhorse, it was a pain but they allowed the bike box as one of my bags. There's not a lot of places to ride but i've got a 11 mile loop that I can hit pretty regularly. And core strength is an issue i'm working on, i've got more than I did but not as much as i'd like.

The bike as far as i've been able to determine is a 1995 Wheeler, 62cm. I can straddle it with things only slightly touching
NCbiker, thanks a lot, that picture really helps. It would appear from that that I am slightly too far back and could use a slightly longer stem. I'm torn between 100 and 110, it's not much of a difference but I don't want to buy both and 3 weeks shipping sucks

RollCNY, no cycle trainer, or access to one. I have looked for that while riding though and I ride heel down.

Altbark

There's a million ways to skin a cat - or so I'm told. A certain amount of personal preferrence comes into play as well.

You can work on stem length once you get the saddle position sorted out. A middle position on the seat rails might be a good place to start - or not.

Then you might want to do a quick measurement to see how close or far off the stem length is. There are probably a million ways to do that but I think you can get into the ballpark by putting your elbow against the nose of the saddle and your fingertips on the stem. If the end of your fingertips reach the middle of the handlebar (you know - that gap between the stem and its cap) then you are good to go. If not - then some adjustment might be in order. Measure along the top of your present stem with a small ruler to see how they came up with the 90mm and then repeat the measurement while doing the elbow on the nose of the saddle and fingertips on the stem to give you a reasonable idea of what the new stem length should be.

Stem angle is the only other thing that needs to be considered. At 25 degrees, your present stem brings your bars back up to level with the nose of the saddle more or less. I think the stems on two of my bikes measure 6 degrees and the other measures 9. In any event, you can go with what you've got or you could experiment with something at say 17 degrees. I wouldn't go with anything lower because the steerer was looks like it was cut to the minimum length so you really don't have much wiggle room if you want to keep the bar height relationship the way it is now. Stem rise is affected by head tube angle. So while most would consider the rise of your present stem to be quite high that doesn't mean that it isn't a good choice for you.

My quite sporty road bike has a compact frame with a 6 degree flipped stem. The stem still points up slightly above level. My Cannondale T1 touring bike has a 9 degree flipped stem and it does point slightly down but the geometry of the frame still gives me a slightly more relaxed riding position than that of my road bike. But they aren't all that much different in feel. That's the way I like it.

The pictures you've shown us look pretty good. The goal now is to just refine the setup the bike. Good luck and don't do anything to your bike that involves a hacksaw. Al

Campag4life

No, you aren't necessarily too far back at all. You may prefer more setback to get the weight off your hands which would allow you to run a bit more drop comfortably. That is why I asked for your bike measurements....saddle tip to BB center...and....saddle tip to handlebar center. These two dimensions define your reach and weight distribution.

RollCNY

If you want specific #'s, both Campag and I are your height. Get your real cycling inseam (no shoes, book in your crotch, spine of book to floor). Mine is 35.25", which at 6'3.5" makes me proportionally cromagnon. With size 14 feet and a heel down pedal stroke, my saddle is 40" (to 40.5" across 3 bikes) from my crank arm center fully extended. Some folks do center of BB, but that leaves out crank length.

If you have a 34" cycling inseam, you will be even more lop sided than me. Longer arms and trunk usually mean longer TT and stem, and slightly more saddle to bar drop to be comfy. Get Campag's take on that too. He has good fit advice.

For your saddle, read up on KOPS. I have to set up every bike with my knee .25-.5" behind the pedal spindle or I get knee pain. This is not exact for everyone, but I would start there. The order goes seat height, fore aft, and then stem length. From my experience, for cromagnons, the eyeball, bar, front axle visual line method doesn't work for crap.

thedave80

campaq, rollcny, i'll do some measuring and get back with you on that

Campag4life

I leveled out your bike pic and dropped a virtual plum line from your saddle tip. Big guys tend to like a lot of setback...and I do too.
Your setback looks to be in the 100mm range or so...pretty good position relative to the BB for a tall guy with long legs. I run just a bit more...and I am slightly shorter than you...so....you may even want your saddle further back...but you would have to change your seat post to experiment. In any event, you aren't right over the BB which is a good thing.

Post those dimensions I mentioned if you want to learn a bit more.
For a better postion on the bike...again you are pretty good...work on rotating your pelvis forward which will straighten out the lumbar of your back. You need the right saddle for this or it will crush your business....but you will have more back comfort and be able to power the pedals better.

thedave80

campaq
the inseam measurements are going to have to wait until I get off work. The bike measurements from the center of the tip of the saddle to the BB is 29.75" Saddle tip to the center of the handlebar is 22.5"

svtmike

For the record, I did this on my bike (I'm also around the OP's height at 6-2/6-3 ish) and my fingertip got to the center of my steer tube, not the handlebar. I have big hands too (I wear XXL gloves because they are long).

So, for me this method is out of the ballpark by the full length of the stem. I could go from a 61cm Roubaix (600mm top tube) down to the smallest size 48 (518mm top tube) and it still wouldn't make that up in top tube length.

Something's way off with either my physique or this ballparking method.

jtwilson

I did this too and got the same result.

Campag4life

Bold above...completely false. You are misrepresenting this convention or tenent of fit. The convention is...place your left elbow on the saddle nose and extend your left fingers toward the stem cap. Then, place your right hand palm perpendicular and next to your left middle finger tip. The right edge of the palm should be close to the centerline of the handlebar.
Btw, if done correctly, this convention is a good one in my experience. It works for me. Most...not all....have arm length proportional to leg length. Many believe that torso length rules when it comes to reach, but this isn't so. Torso length is half the equation. Arm length is the other half of the pyramid.

Top racers in the pro peloton will ride even more stretched out than the convention above which I believe is a good one for even a good recreational cyclist. If you are riding with a fit using just your left arm elbow to finger tips, you are riding too cramped...which btw I see commonly on the road...because many don't embrace a road bike position and ride with poor posture.

Campag4life

OK Dave.
Let's start with your saddle tip to center of handlebar = 22.5". This dimension is too short. You need a longer stem and/or more saddle setback. 22.5" = 571.5mm. This is woefully short for a guy 6'3". Svtmike on this board is your size and knows fit. A 6'3" guy will be well served with at least ~ 605mm. I am 6'1" and ride 605mm for this dimension. Hincapie is your size and rides 615-620mm. Top racers will ride more stretched out than us...as a general rule.

See that picture I posted of a virtual plum line dropped from your saddle tip? You need to do this with a piece of string and a weight on the end...use anything...tape a nail to it or use a washer etc. Make sure your bike is on level ground...and record this dimension. You should be in the 100-110mm range if you want to get some of the pressure off your hands.

So...why does your shortish cockpit work? Because you aren't rotating your pelvis forward. Your short cockpit doesn't promote this in fact. Again, you need to select the right saddle that will elevate your sitbones and not crush your other parts when placed in the right position. When you rotate your pelvis forward properly, this straightens the lower part of your back and immediately you will need more reach because the effective length of your back is longer. By rotating more forward your arms will naturally bend and you will get more weight on the pedals with less effort and your glutes will be more enlisted for more power in your pedal stroke.

1. First, drop that plum bob off your saddle tip and measure horizontal distance to center of your crank
2. Measure top of saddle where you sit to the centerline of your crank spindle.
3. Measure the length of your head tube...from lower bearing to top bearing.
4. Measure top tube which is horizontal distance from seat post center to steerer tube center at head tube top bearing...make sure this is level.

Above will help refine your fit and lead us toward determining a better size stem and understand your saddle position fore/aft on the bike.
Keep in mind...that the right size in reach and setback will promote a better position on the bike. Posture is heavily influenced by the dimensions of your fit and why so many ride hump backed..because their fit is too cramped.

Below depicts why posture is so important. It is hard to achieve correct posture on a bike with cramped cockpit. So changing your bike reach will promote a better position. Embracing a rotated forward position isn't easy for us males. It's an acquired taste. You have to find the right saddle...I prefer a cut out and ride a Toupe 155 to support my sit bones. Saddle tilt also matters for not only perineal comfort but for weight on the hands....a balance.
See below...if you understand this and learn to rotate your pelvis, this will also take pressure off your neck when riding in the drops because the back isn't in a S curve near the neck.