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  1. #26
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    'Cross is one of the things that doesn't seem to benefit from being 11-speed. Even 10-speed wasn't all that for it, as I understand - I know a lot of people run 9-speed for it. As 11s becomes common, I wonder if anyone will create a dedicated 9-speed CX group.
    RetroShift is already available in 9-speed.

  2. #27
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
    RetroShift is already available in 9-speed.
    Yeah...

    I was thinking of under-the-tape style. Shouldn't be THAT hard to just put a different indexing gear in there, I'd think.

  3. #28
    Rubber side down Clipped_in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    I see some pretty good deals on complete bikes with Rival and was wondering if any Rival users could comment.
    I have been riding Rival since 2009. I presently have it on two bikes. A friend was asking me yesterday, "So when are you going to be upgrading to Red?" My response was that, "I just don't see it happening." I get all the performance I want and need from Rival, and for the little bit of weight savings with upgrading I can't remotely justify it.
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  4. #29
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    My Tarmac SL2 Comp has Rival on it. I like it a lot. My right hand also has the muscle memory set for non-zero loss shifting. When I ride my Volagi with 2013 Force shifters (which appear to be 2011/12 Red) I'm all hosed up shoving the lever too far. Sram should offer Rival cranks in BB30 instead of the S500 or 900 non-series.

  5. #30
    Senior Member THSdrummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    'Cross is one of the things that doesn't seem to benefit from being 11-speed. Even 10-speed wasn't all that for it, as I understand - I know a lot of people run 9-speed for it. As 11s becomes common, I wonder if anyone will create a dedicated 9-speed CX group.
    This 'cross bike would function more as a commuter/gravel grinder with a possible few Cat 5 CX starts, but rare. I'm not saying I want my CX bike to have 11 speed either, just that it'd be annoying to buy a 10-speed this year and lose all new upgrade options next year.

    The bright side, perhaps the current Red would drop in price.
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  6. #31
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Interesting. I figured 11-speed would be too finicky for those conditions.
    11 spd has been in Mtb for a while now. Not really hard to set up a rear to work well. The problem in cross is front shifting. The usable rings up front are usually very close in size, the FD design allows the chain to jump when dismounting, and remounting if you bounce the bike/hit the deck - both of which can happen many times a lap.

    Going 1x11 lightens the whole system -dropping the FD, cables, housings, lever internals while only increasing by 1 cog and reduces the chances of a mechanical greatly.

  7. #32
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Should we go over and talk 1x11 in the 1x10 thread and see if that settles all the bickering? I haven't checked it in a few days, but it was a cluster last time.

  8. #33
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Should we go over and talk 1x11 in the 1x10 thread and see if that settles all the bickering? I haven't checked it in a few days, but it was a cluster last time.
    Saw the title...didn't want to bother going in there.

  9. #34
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clipped_in View Post
    I have been riding Rival since 2009. I presently have it on two bikes. A friend was asking me yesterday, "So when are you going to be upgrading to Red?" My response was that, "I just don't see it happening." I get all the performance I want and need from Rival, and for the little bit of weight savings with upgrading I can't remotely justify it.
    This is the 41.

    Being logical has no place here.

    I hate SRAM, but if you are happy with what you have, there's no real reason to change.

    I bought Di2 Ultegra to replace the SRAM Red on my GFs TT bike, but I ride 6600/7800/6700.

    I'm happy, and it works well enough for me.
    Last edited by BoSoxYacht; 04-14-13 at 01:05 AM.

  10. #35
    Senior Member deepakvrao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    SRAM seems to have been raising prices substantially with each revision as though they have gained enough market share to feel comfortable moving up from where they had to come in at to gain market share.

    I'm not sure they fully realize that if they get too close to Shimano pricing there will be a substantial exodus back.

    Absolutely. Been looking at a Force groupset for a new build, and the price difference between Force and 105 is absurd, with even Ultegra being lower than Force. I love SRAM, but am very tempted to go back to Shimano for price alone.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Spiduhman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    I see some pretty good deals on complete bikes with Rival and was wondering if any Rival users could comment.
    Rival on #1 road bike since 2009, first brifter bike ever, having spent a few days with both the Shimano and Campy of the day, a simple choice - less $$, weight comparable to Ultgra, stiff crank, like the all black look, and the one lever Rules.

    SRAM has taken care of me on the warrantee issue; the early brifter's little folded piece o' sheet metal (crap) that carries the interleaved pawls breaks - eventually.

    The right/rear has been replaced twice. Last Fall, SRAM replaced the set; the carrier is much beefier now.

    All that said, although the brifters can be taken apart, cleaned, and properly lubed (Dow #41), they're not really made to be taken apart, much less rebuilt, and spare parts aren't available.
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  12. #37
    John Wayne Toilet Paper nhluhr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
    The 9070 cogs are now razor sharp, tinny flakes of ruinously expensive metal that will probably wear out every 3-4K miles.
    9000 cogs are the same thickness as 7900.

  13. #38
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    I made a switch to SRAM ( 9 bikes ) from early Campy Record, Delta brakes 1991 year (and still museum quality) to Shimano XT, Ultegra, Dura-Ace, XTR, lower end Alfine hub, 105. SRAM Force was the ticket, liked the somewhat heavy ka-clank shifting, Dura-ace like brakes, aesthetics, quality and precision.
    Force isn't cheap and uber light but every future bike I will get will have the latest greatest Force Group.

  14. #39
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Just launched - as promised. On tax day.

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  16. #41
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    The hydraulic rim brakes were a surprise to me, but I guess if it gets more people in to the group.

    Also: Conehead levers.
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  17. #42
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    Meh...gotta disagree there. 1x11 for cross is the future. It's the only use I can currently see for 11. The SRAM xx1 driver and chainring setup make it an ideal cross setup. You get to ditch a front d, shifter, chain guard, and still maintain a wide range on the cassette. Less things to freeze up in the mud.

    After being in the pits at natz and at worlds.....it has its use in cross.....

    ....but this isn't cross.

    On the road it is just not needed and is a "me too" product.
    Rob...you mentioned in your earlier post you aren't much of a fan of 11s...or slow to embrace it.
    Why is that?
    Thanks.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    SRAM seems to have been raising prices substantially with each revision as though they have gained enough market share to feel comfortable moving up from where they had to come in at to gain market share.

    I'm not sure they fully realize that if they get too close to Shimano pricing there will be a substantial exodus back.
    Sometime next year, I'll be in the market for a new group set because the better half will take over my current Rival set up. I think I'm opting for Di2 since the price for the current Red is almost identical. Even the old Red is still "pretty" expensive and it's frustrating to those who are remotely thinking of upgrading from Apex/Rival.

    I see some pretty good deals on complete bikes with Rival and was wondering if any Rival users could comment.
    As for the Rival
    Other than the front shifting, I have no issues with it. A lot of people would complain it's loud, but that's no issue for me. It does it's job.

  19. #44
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
    The hydraulic rim brakes were a surprise to me, but I guess if it gets more people in to the group.

    Also: Conehead levers.
    The surprise should be that they actually released the hydraulic rim brakes. There have been SRAM released photos of the around for about 18 months, and I've seen them in person.

    Honestly, I figured the would realize they really aren't worth the hassle, like Magura did over a decade ago.

  20. #45
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
    The surprise should be that they actually released the hydraulic rim brakes. There have been SRAM released photos of the around for about 18 months, and I've seen them in person.

    Honestly, I figured the would realize they really aren't worth the hassle, like Magura did over a decade ago.
    Magura came out with some again as recently as a year or so ago.

  21. #46
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    Rob...you mentioned in your earlier post you aren't much of a fan of 11s...or slow to embrace it.
    Why is that?
    Thanks.
    In general I believe that the bad of extra dishing outweighs the "good" of an extra cog.

  22. #47
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    Magura came out with some again as recently as a year or so ago.
    Yeah, everyone is talking about those Maguras

    You would think SRAM would realize that there's no market for them worth fighting for.

  23. #48
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    In general I believe that the bad of extra dishing outweighs the "good" of an extra cog.
    but rear spacing hasn;t changed ? they're using a ZIPP wheel in the report, so other than maybe losing the 1 mm spacer on the inside, the cassette width fits current hubs (don;t see any special hubs in the report), why would dish change?
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  24. #49
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
    but rear spacing hasn;t changed ? they're using a ZIPP wheel in the report, so other than maybe losing the 1 mm spacer on the inside, the cassette width fits current hubs (don;t see any special hubs in the report), why would dish change?
    the hub shell is narrower so that they can fit the extra cog in, and use the same dropout spacing.

  25. #50
    Senior Member grolby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    11 spd has been in Mtb for a while now. Not really hard to set up a rear to work well. The problem in cross is front shifting. The usable rings up front are usually very close in size, the FD design allows the chain to jump when dismounting, and remounting if you bounce the bike/hit the deck - both of which can happen many times a lap.

    Going 1x11 lightens the whole system -dropping the FD, cables, housings, lever internals while only increasing by 1 cog and reduces the chances of a mechanical greatly.
    I'm skeptical of 1x10 setups in cross as it is - they're about as likely to drop the chain (maybe more), but when they do you are really screwed, because you can't get the chain back on nearly as easily. Often because the chain guide meant to prevent a chain drop makes getting the chain back on almost impossible. Kevin Pauwels had his World Championships ruined by this problem. Most elite crossers use double setups in front despite the "obvious" advantages of a single chainring. Maybe a system akin to the XX1 single-ring setup, like you describe, will solve this problem once and for all, but so far I don't see much reason to think 1x11 is the next big thing in cross.

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