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  1. #1
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    Max heart rate and exercise performance

    I always ASSumed that the greater one's MHR the more work capacity. This article states:

    '"There is no association between maximum heart rate and exercise performance,” said Hirofumi Tanaka, the director of the Cardiovascular Aging Research Laboratory and an exercise physiologist at the University of Texas in Austin.'

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/he...on/10BEST.html

    Does this jive with your experiences?
    Last edited by CrankAndYank; 05-19-13 at 06:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk znomit's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I have a max around 200.

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    Senior Member datlas's Avatar
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    There is a correlation but it is quite weak.

    Ride more, worry less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Yes.

    I have a max around 200.
    That's pretty high. How does that support the alternative hypothesis?

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    Senior Member datlas's Avatar
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    Cardiac Output = Heart Rate x Stroke Volume

    Get it?
    Quote Originally Posted by RUOkie View Post
    never underestimate the idiocy of BF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by datlas View Post
    Cardiac Output = Heart Rate x Stroke Volume

    Get it?
    Read the article. It's more complicated than that.

    Get it?

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    Senior Member datlas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankAndYank View Post
    Read the article. It's more complicated than that.

    Get it?
    1. What article?
    2. Of course it's more complicated. But on a simplified level, your cardiac output is SV x HR. So if your HR is very high but you are not pumping much blood per stroke (for various reasons this happens), your max HR is not necessarily the key determinant to your cardiac output.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datlas View Post
    1. What article?
    See edit...

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    Senior Member surgeonstone's Avatar
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    With conditioned athletes the stroke volume is very high, hence the slower HR for a given CO. It will take a lot more work to get Lance up to his maximum HR than for a person like me. Conversely with an extremely high HR there may be insufficient time for filling of the heart between beats hence the reduction in stroke volume and lowering of CO. But as datlas says, it really is as simple as CO=HRxSV.

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    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankAndYank View Post
    Does this jive with your experiences?
    Unless one of us is a sports physiologist who has studied dozens of athletes, what experience could we offer that would counter the current scientific conclusions?

    This is not to say that the science is settled and perfect. Rather, that all we would have is anecdotal experience without any precision or protocols or standards. The subsequent data would be worthless for drawing a conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Unless one of us is a sports physiologist who has studied dozens of athletes, what experience could we offer that would counter the current scientific conclusions?
    Hey, this is ​The BF....

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    I think improved performance is based more on your heart's ability to recover from hard efforts.

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    For endurance sports like cycling and running, it's actually an interplay between cardio and muscular sport-specific endurance, and more often than not, it's the muscular endurance (leg cycling endurance for cyclists) that will be the limiter, especially for efforts over 20 minutes (20 minutes is roughly one's ability to hold a true VO2 max hard aerobic effort for a trained athlete.)

    So even if you have monster cardio with a VO2max in world-record range, unless your legs are adapted to match, you're not going to be a world-class cyclist, and likely not even close. This is very clear when you see world-class swimmers make the jump over the triathlon or run/cycling, and they start off not much better than average since they don't have the miles in their legs to match the cardio. And it's not just a matter of the legs feeling like they're burning when they go hard - without the training to build capillaries in the legs for blood flow, your HR might skyrocket even at fairly lower power efforts on untrained legs.

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    Senior Member whitemax's Avatar
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    Being able to ride at a high percentage of maximum heart be it 175 bpm or 200 bpm is what matters; my 41, non scientific rationale.
    Last edited by whitemax; 05-19-13 at 01:39 PM.

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    my HR maxes out over 190 on a real hot day on a steep enough climb...and I'm a 60 year old, 180+ pound lard ass never get above "b" category rider...so I'd say the hypotheses of no correlation is true based on my sample size of 1...
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
    my HR maxes out over 190 on a real hot day on a steep enough climb...and I'm a 60 year old, 180+ pound lard ass never get above "b" category rider...so I'd say the hypotheses of no correlation is true based on my sample size of 1...
    Yeah. Maybe it's better to have a huge-displacement V8 heart that never revs really high....

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    Pulmonary efficiency is more important than how fast the pump moves. This is my uneducated guess, flame away.
    Pirk
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    Senior Member Ice41000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankAndYank View Post
    I always ASSumed that the greater one's MHR the more work capacity. This article states:

    '"There is no association between maximum heart rate and exercise performance,” said Hirofumi Tanaka, the director of the Cardiovascular Aging Research Laboratory and an exercise physiologist at the University of Texas in Austin.'

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/he...on/10BEST.html

    Does this jive with your experiences?
    Yes. I have very high max - around 200 (even being in mid forties), min around 50 and I get my ass kicked all the time by the people who can't get it over 180.
    Last edited by Ice41000; 05-21-13 at 03:17 AM.

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    My friend pass away last month, because hr 228 at age 44. Just curious is there formula for max hr for certain age?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice41000 View Post
    Yes. I have very high max - around 200 (even being in mid forties), min around 50 and I get my ass kicked all the time by the people who can get it over 180.
    You mean "can't"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirkaus View Post
    Pulmonary efficiency is more important than how fast the pump moves. This is my uneducated guess, flame away.
    Pirk
    I thought flaming never happened here.

  22. #22
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Maximum HR is just about a useless measurement for training or predicting performance. If you're training by HR, you need to set your zones off your threshold HR, not maximum HR.

    And having a higher maximum HR doesn't mean you're faster. I'm faster at 53 with a lower maximum HR, than I was at 25 with a higher maximum HR.

    Back in the day when we trained by HR, my team mate's maximum HR was at least 20 beats below mine, and he routinely kicked my ass.

    Maximum HR is at best bragging fodder.
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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilaasepeda View Post
    My friend pass away last month, because hr 228 at age 44. Just curious is there formula for max hr for certain age?
    there is. 220 minus your age. It's notoriously inaccurate, to the point of being worthless.

    For example, I still see 190 occassionaly, and the formula says my max is 167, which is actually just a couple of beats above my LTHR.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    there is. 220 minus your age. It's notoriously inaccurate, to the point of being worthless.

    For example, I still see 190 occassionaly, and the formula says my max is 167, which is actually just a couple of beats above my LTHR.
    My sister's was over 400 (in the cardiac ICU).

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post

    And having a higher maximum HR doesn't mean you're faster. I'm faster at 53 with a lower maximum HR, than I was at 25 with a higher maximum HR.
    But you could have been faster at 23 with a higher maximum HR had you done the same training...

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