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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
    50/36 is my favorite crankset combo, with an 11-25 on the back. (11-23 on really flat areas.)

    Why?

    Less gap in front.

    50-11 is PLENTY tall combo for me to push (I think I finally "spun out" at about 42mph on a downhill the other day).

    36-25 gives me enough to climb most things.

    A "standard" double would require me to upsize my cassette (increasing the jump-size in back), and 52-11 is really getting ridiculous for mere mortals anyway.
    Not exactly. 11-25 paired with a 50/36 is pretty close to a 52/39 with a 12-27. 39x27 is essentially the same gear as 36x25. If 36x25 is the lowest gear you actually need, then you might actually be better off with a standard so you can stay in the 39 ring longer. In terms of jump size, a 11-25 is pretty similar to a 12-27. The beauty of the 50/36 though is that it makes it much easier to set up the bike for the riding you plan on doing with simple cassette swaps. You can get down to 36x30 pretty easily with the right cassette and RD combo, whereas 39x30 still isn't low enough for most mere mortals.

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
    So you don't ever use any of the overlap between your rings? Its not always convenient to shift the front and the rear to get that one higher gear you need. Arbitrarily limiting yourself to like 16 out of your 20 gears seems silly. There is only 2 gears I don't use regularly. 36x12 and 50x27. Everything else is fair game.
    Im probably conscious of going to the extreme at either end.....

  3. #278
    Jet Jockey Banzai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
    Not exactly. 11-25 paired with a 50/36 is pretty close to a 52/39 with a 12-27. 39x27 is essentially the same gear as 36x25. If 36x25 is the lowest gear you actually need, then you might actually be better off with a standard so you can stay in the 39 ring longer. In terms of jump size, a 11-25 is pretty similar to a 12-27. The beauty of the 50/36 though is that it makes it much easier to set up the bike for the riding you plan on doing with simple cassette swaps. You can get down to 36x30 pretty easily with the right cassette and RD combo, whereas 39x30 still isn't low enough for most mere mortals.
    That is the other reason 50/36 is my favorite. Rare, but I have done the 12-30 big cassette for some mountain climbing. That cassette normally lives on my 'cross bike, but has twice migrated to my roadie with the 50/36 for climbing duty.
    Good night...and good luck

  4. #279
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    got my 52/36 rings the other day. Probably put them on over the weekend, not quite sure yet.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
    That is the other reason 50/36 is my favorite. Rare, but I have done the 12-30 big cassette for some mountain climbing. That cassette normally lives on my 'cross bike, but has twice migrated to my roadie with the 50/36 for climbing duty.
    I use a 12-30 on my favorite bike with the compact. Suspect it is time for a standard as the sweet spot is in between rings.

  6. #281
    Senior Member volosong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
    That is the other reason 50/36 is my favorite. Rare, but I have done the 12-30 big cassette for some mountain climbing. That cassette normally lives on my 'cross bike, but has twice migrated to my roadie with the 50/36 for climbing duty.
    I'm a wimp. I put the Ultegra 12-30 on all my bikes with the 50/34 on front. At times, since I'm a masher, I've wished for a little bit more than a 50/12, but I often put that 30 to use on the slopes.
    Deut 6:5

    ---

    "Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
    - Vizzini during his "battle of wits" with the Man in Black

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
    So you don't ever use any of the overlap between your rings? Its not always convenient to shift the front and the rear to get that one higher gear you need. Arbitrarily limiting yourself to like 16 out of your 20 gears seems silly. There is only 2 gears I don't use regularly. 36x12 and 50x27. Everything else is fair game.
    Im probably conscious of going to the extreme at either end.....

  8. #283
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
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    Putting a 50-34 on my gravel bike so I can sit and spin hills on loose ground.
    [CENTER][URL="http://VeloBase.com"][IMG]http://velobase.com/App_Themes/VeloBase2_blue/Images/VeloBase2TitleCampagnolo.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
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  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    I use a 12-30 on my favorite bike with the compact. Suspect it is time for a standard as the sweet spot is in between rings.
    Why not just try an 11-28?

  10. #285
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    Why not just try an 11-28?
    Yeah... people get weird about gearing.

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    Why not just try an 11-28?
    Those work too. I don't mind gaps in the cassette, but this was a Tiagra 4600 build.

  12. #287
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    Those work too. I don't mind gaps in the cassette, but this was a Tiagra 4600 build.
    In any case, 11-28 should be no worse than 12-30, and a cheaper thing to try than swapping the crank.

  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    In any case, 11-28 should be no worse than 12-30, and a cheaper thing to try than swapping the crank.
    Agreed, but one extra tooth in back won't help me significantly on downhills. Paired with a 53t big ring, maybe.

  14. #289
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    Agreed, but one extra tooth in back won't help me significantly on downhills. Paired with a 53t big ring, maybe.
    Going from 12 to 11 in back is .083 advantage in the top end; going from 50 to 53 in the front gives you a .06 advantage. The 11-28 will help more on the downhills, now, than the 53-39.

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Going from 12 to 11 in back is .083 advantage in the top end; going from 50 to 53 in the front gives you a .06 advantage. The 11-28 will help more on the downhills, now, than the 53-39.
    Those numbers are so close though that they are almost irrelevant to me. All I know is that I don't spin out on hills with a 52 on my triple, but I do on my compact and they are both 12t small in the back. It appears that what matters most is where you are on the speed curve rather than pure ratios.

  16. #291
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    Those numbers are so close though that they are almost irrelevant to me. All I know is that I don't spin out on hills with a 52 on my triple, but I do on my compact and they are both 12t small in the back. It appears that what matters most is where you are on the speed curve rather than pure ratios.
    Sure, they're close, but if you're fine in 52/12, you'll also be fine in 50/11. That was my real point.

  17. #292
    RT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Sure, they're close, but if you're fine in 52/12, you'll also be fine in 50/11. That was my real point.
    But my practical experience tells me differently. You are going from pure numbers, I am going by the fact that I spin out on a compact.

    EDIT: I have been on 11t cassettes and the difference is negligible despite the numbers.
    Last edited by RT; 05-31-13 at 09:59 AM.

  18. #293
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    But my practical experience tells me differently. You are going from pure numbers, I am going by the fact that I spin out on a compact.

    EDIT: I have been on 11t cassettes and the difference is negligible despite the numbers.
    Well then something isn't right with your testing RT. Doesn't matter where you get the gear inches from...cassette or crank. Amateurs generally don't need more than 50/11 for top end. For the same RPM you will have more speed with a 50/11 than you will with 53/12.

    One outgrowth of discussion is...a rider gets more benefit out of changing the cassette versus crankset. In the example above 3 teeth more on the crank doesn't even equal a 1 tooth change in the cassette at the top end.
    Last edited by Campag4life; 05-31-13 at 10:35 AM.

  19. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    Well then something isn't right with your testing RT. Doesn't matter where you get the gear inches from...cassette or crank. Amateurs generally don't need more than 50/11 for top end. For the same RPM you will have more speed with a 50/11 than you will with 53/12.

    One outgrowth of discussion is...a rider gets more benefit out of changing the cassette versus crankset. In the example above 3 teeth more on the crank doesn't even equal a 1 tooth change in the cassette at the top end.
    I understand what you are saying - my experience is that I end up coasting after about 40 mph going downhill on a compact with 12t and can spin, albeit to the top end, on the 52t ring with 12t. There's no testing aside form trying to go as fast as I can. These are the results. There is no wind tunnel and no electrodes.

    No offense intended, but this is a great example of how ways can be found with math to discredit the simple act of riding a bike.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    I understand what you are saying - my experience is that I end up coasting after about 40 mph going downhill on a compact with 12t and can spin, albeit to the top end, on the 52t ring with 12t. There's no testing aside form trying to go as fast as I can. These are the results. There is no wind tunnel and no electrodes.

    No offense intended, but this is a great example of how ways can be found with math to discredit the simple act of riding a bike.
    The point they are making is that if you spin a 52-12 you can spin a 50-11 equally as well. I don't understand your math comment but if you are spinning a 52-12 @ 120RPM switching to a 50-11 will drop your RPM to 114.

  21. #296
    RT
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    The point they are making is that if you spin a 52-12 you can spin a 50-11 equally as well. I don't understand your math comment but if you are spinning a 52-12 @ 120RPM switching to a 50-11 will drop your RPM to 114.
    I am uncertain why it is so hard to understand that I spin out on 50/12 on hills, but can continue with effective acceleration on 52/12. You guys keep vomiting up numbers and ratios while I am relaying practical experiences. Not trying to convince anyone of anything, just imparting what happens when I ride my bike.

  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT View Post
    I am uncertain why it is so hard to understand that I spin out on 50/12 on hills, but can continue with effective acceleration on 52/12. You guys keep vomiting up numbers and ratios while I am relaying practical experiences. Not trying to convince anyone of anything, just imparting what happens when I ride my bike.
    The suggestion was that you switch to a 50-11​ which you won't spin out.

  23. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    The suggestion was that you switch to a 50-11​ which you won't spin out.
    As has been stated, I have ridden an 11 with results that are indiscernible - only on paper are they different. I spin out on 50-11 on hills. I have to try harder to spin out on 52-11 (or 12). Think of this this way: The argument here is that two teeth up front makes little difference. Why not then eschew the 50t and go 48t or cross gearing? You're only losing two teeth after all. Not many takers on that.

    We all ride differently. If you consult Sheldon's gear-inch calculator, you will see that the difference is only a little over 1 mph at 50-11 vs 50-12. This supports my assertion that it matters more where one is on the speed curve than just the basic math suggests. If you are going 5 mph and try to push a 50-11, it is the same at that speed as trying to push 50-12. At 40+ mph it is a different story.

    Stick that in your slide rule and smoke it

  24. #299
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    Does gearing really make this much difference? In general, people seem to focus on one gear on the bottom which may make an 8-10% difference, or one gear on the top, so they don't "spin out". It seems to me that no matter what gearing you pick, you will always find a situation where you have to mash on a climb or coast on a descent. Did this morph into the road racing sub forum, and is there money at stake? I just don't get how people so focus on searching for the perfect gearing.

    I have done the same group ride for 3+ years, and whether it is on a standard crank, compact crank, 1x9, or 1x1, I have always survived, my "speed" always matches the groups, and if I get dropped it is because my will failed, and never my gearing.

  25. #300
    Oil it! sfrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    Does gearing really make this much difference? In general, people seem to focus on one gear on the bottom which may make an 8-10% difference, or one gear on the top, so they don't "spin out". It seems to me that no matter what gearing you pick, you will always find a situation where you have to mash on a climb or coast on a descent. Did this morph into the road racing sub forum, and is there money at stake? I just don't get how people so focus on searching for the perfect gearing.
    For long climbs it doesn't make much difference I think. I've climbed all over the place with 50/34 and 12-27. 34 for the climbs and 50 for the descents and flat sections between climbs, or for very short hills. I wouldn't really notice that much difference with a 25 and in fact the next cassette will be an 11-25.

    Where spinning out does matter is on big rollers. There are two ways to approach these: 1) treat each downhill as a descent to be coasted, and then climb each uphill, or 2) steady effort - which means pedaling on the downhill to get enough speed to get you over the next uphill, then simply maintaining steady effort up hill and down vale. Speed may vary between 45mph and 10mph. If you can do the latter those rollers suddenly become MUCH easier. As in A LOT easier.

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