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  1. #101
    Shut up legs NathanC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    Except when the battery is dead.

    "I'm sorry, I can't go for a bike ride with you because my shifter-thingy battery is dead and I'm waiting on the Fed-Ex guy w/ a new one.
    Do they come pre-charged?"

    Sorry (not really).

    -Bandera

    The Pro Tour teams at the Giro charge the batteries once in the whole race. I don't think it would ever exclude anyone from riding.

  2. #102
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aramis View Post
    He doesn't know what he's talking about. You can actually adjust it while riding the bike if you want w/ DI2. On my ultegra DI2, just hold a button down on the junction box by the handlebars until a light turns red (about 2 seconds) on and then use the shifters to adjust the derailleur in or out (like a barrel adjuster). When you're done, hold the button again for a few seconds until the light goes off and continue riding. If he doesn't want to look up a simple procedure on how to adjust his bike it's his fault, not the DI2.
    I was thinking the exact same thing. Don't give di2 a bad wrap just because the guy didn't take the time to watch a minute long youtube video to learn how to adjust it.

    Unfortunately I have ridden with way too many people that don't know how to use a barrel adjuster. I guess that means that cables are crap.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

  3. #103
    Senior Member JonnyHK's Avatar
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    I've noticed a difference in the two main locations I ride.

    50/34 with 11-28:
    Works fine in Hong Kong where everything is pretty much up or down, or racing in the big ring.

    50/36 with 11-28:
    Seems better in Australia where there is more flat, longer and less steep hills, but I'm still climbing some monsters to want that 28.
    The set up with the 34 left me hunting for the right gear at times at moderate speeds on low gradients - I'd get stuck in this zone for 20km+. Was annoying.

  4. #104
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aramis View Post
    He doesn't know what he's talking about. You can actually adjust it while riding the bike if you want w/ DI2. On my ultegra DI2, just hold a button down on the junction box by the handlebars until a light turns red (about 2 seconds) on and then use the shifters to adjust the derailleur in or out (like a barrel adjuster). When you're done, hold the button again for a few seconds until the light goes off and continue riding. If he doesn't want to look up a simple procedure on how to adjust his bike it's his fault, not the DI2.
    This makes more sense. I was wondering what the hell kind of system doesn't allow any kind of fine tuning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aramis View Post
    Other nice thing about DI2 is if it does fail it will stay in whatever gear you're in. So if you know your battery is about to die you can put it in a gear that will let you get home, vs mechanical you end up in the smallest gear if the cable breaks.
    The limit screws are useful. You can also secure the cable somewhere other than the shifter since the most common failure is at the head and adjust tension for whatever gear you want. Obviously, changing gears is awkward.

    My guess is that running out of juice is a rare mistake with Di2. My bigger worry would be messing it up from debris or falling. I originally was concerned about reliability in slop but reports I've heard is that's not an issue.

  5. #105
    Senior Member fstshrk's Avatar
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    I live in area with a reasonable amount of hills at 14-20% grade, I like the compact 50/34 combo with the 11-28 rear. I will be in the market for the SRAM True-22 with the 11-32 rear when it comes out. Not because 34/28 is not good enough, but the true 22 would give me an option to stay in the large ring longer. Hmm, maybe I should consider a Rohloff hub on my next bike.

  6. #106
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanC View Post
    The Pro Tour teams at the Giro charge the batteries once in the whole race. I don't think it would ever exclude anyone from riding.
    Nathan,

    A battery charge should never keep one from riding a bicycle, in fact I'm charging the battery on my headlight before I ride my town bike to the 7-11 for a six pack of Shiner Bock to go with the pork roast. Safety first.

    But this: "They had an article about the Blanco mechanics at the Giro.. they swap out batteries with charged ones when they blink at 50%.. funny"

    That is a laugh, nice that they swap those batteries, it must be part of their job. Sure the had had nothing else to do.
    But, who are "They"? Now I'm (not) confused.

    I'd have those Blanco mechanics swap all of my batteries if they'd not miss the 1953 Willys in the back 40 because it does not blink. Good thing Blanco is just a county away.

    -Bandera
    Last edited by Bandera; 05-21-13 at 08:50 PM. Reason: editing
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  7. #107
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    so why is it widely regarded that stronger riders use 52 and more average riders use 50? Unless you're going steep down hill with 52/12 vs 50/12, how else would it matter?
    5/20

  8. #108
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    "Not one has completely died without warning." Come on now..what about your Casio watch, TV remote, X-Box or 9.5V drill?

    Not to belabor the point but: Modern Mechanical bicycle shifting systems are currently inherently more reliable than Electronic systems.

    Your E-system depends on "tiny mechanical parts", glad you keep it charged, really I am.

    And what's a "Garmin"?

    Back to Compact Cranks vs Godzilla.

    -Bandera
    I've never used a wristwatch. My TV remote starts getting weak before it dies. My Xbox controller warns me. Battery powered drills get weak before they die. What part of this is dying without warning?

    If you want to claim the mechanical systems are more reliable, please provide data. I'm sure you have it.

    And feigned ignorance doesn't make you sound convincing.

  9. #109
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
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    As a veteran of 53/42, I found the cadence jump of 53/39 annoying but tolerable. But 50/34 is beyond the pall; when I drop to the little ring I find myself triple-shifting the rear just so I don't lose all my momentum. 50/36 would be so much better--that would be just a double-shift.

  10. #110
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
    As a veteran of 53/42, I found the cadence jump of 53/39 annoying but tolerable. But 50/34 is beyond the pall; when I drop to the little ring I find myself triple-shifting the rear just so I don't lose all my momentum. 50/36 would be so much better--that would be just a double-shift.
    I do agree that 50/36 is much better than 50/34. That's what I run now, and I think it makes much more sense than 50/34. I wish it were, you know, popular in the OEM market, at all.

  11. #111
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Oh, and in the 53/42 days, were 650c wheels more common? That'd change effective gearing quite a bit.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    so why is it widely regarded that stronger riders use 52 and more average riders use 50? Unless you're going steep down hill with 52/12 vs 50/12, how else would it matter?
    It isn't. There's only 4% difference between a 52 and 50.

    There are many riders who feel they might be regarded as weak or a ***** for riding a compact, but then they spend most of their time riding in the little ring. There is zero correlation between your chainrings and power.

  13. #113
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    I've never used a wristwatch. My TV remote starts getting weak before it dies. My Xbox controller warns me. Battery powered drills get weak before they die. What part of this is dying without warning?

    If you want to claim the mechanical systems are more reliable, please provide data. I'm sure you have it.

    And feigned ignorance doesn't make you sound convincing.
    Bah,

    Let's keep this really simple before we return to Compact vs. Triple vs. Fixed and I can enjoy that pork roast.

    Is a modern mechanical bicycle shifting system vs. a modern E-shift system more or less reliable?

    As an analogy if you are climbing that really nasty grade 50 miles from home and your E-system is "getting weak" or "warning me" before it dies, and it will, more reliable than a mechanical system that just does not ever just "Die". Don't even think to tell me that batteries don't "just do that" regardless of how well tended. That would fly in the face of all of our experience with a plethora of devices.
    Even Boeing is having serious problems w/ battery operated systems, how's that feigned?

    -Bandera
    Last edited by Bandera; 05-21-13 at 09:32 PM. Reason: editing
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
    As a veteran of 53/42, I found the cadence jump of 53/39 annoying but tolerable. But 50/34 is beyond the pall; when I drop to the little ring I find myself triple-shifting the rear just so I don't lose all my momentum. 50/36 would be so much better--that would be just a double-shift.
    Switch to campy and it's not an issue

  15. #115
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    Bah,

    Let's keep this really simple before we return to Compact vs. Triple vs. Fixed and I can enjoy that pork roast.

    Is a modern mechanical bicycle shifting system vs. a modern E-shift system more or less reliable?

    As an analogy if you are climbing that really nasty grade 50 miles from home and your E-system is "getting weak" or "warning me" before it dies, and it will, more reliable than a mechanical system that just does not ever just "Die". Don't even think to tell me that batteries don't "just do that" regardless of how well tended. That would be fly in the face of all of our experience with a plethora of devices.
    Even Boeing is having serious problems w/ battery operated systems, how's that feigned?

    -Bandera
    My coach snapped a FD cable on a hilly ride. Don't even think to tell me cables don't "just do that".

    Do you let every battery you have die before you recharge it, or do you plug them in at consistent intervals so that they always have power when you need it?

  16. #116
    Senior Member Jakedatc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    Nathan,

    A battery charge should never keep one from riding a bicycle, in fact I'm charging the battery on my headlight before I ride my town bike to the 7-11 for a six pack of Shiner Bock to go with the pork roast. Safety first.

    But this: "They had an article about the Blanco mechanics at the Giro.. they swap out batteries with charged ones when they blink at 50%.. funny"

    That is a laugh, nice that they swap those batteries, it must be part of their job. Sure the had had nothing else to do.
    But, who are "They"? Now I'm (not) confused.

    I'd have those Blanco mechanics swap all of my batteries if they'd not miss the 1953 Willys in the back 40 because it does not blink. Good thing Blanco is just a county away.

    -Bandera
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/...he-giro_287867 pic 13

    Blanco aka former Rabobank pro team not going to find them in TX sorry

    EVERY day the bikes get washed and re-lubed, so they would notice. On rest days they also put on new chains, brake cables, bar tape,brake pads and they also check every bolt too. it is their job and they have a LOT to do.


    It is an easy thing to monitor and deal with.. you fill up your car with gas.. tires with air.. fridge with food.. etc
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    Is a modern mechanical bicycle shifting system vs. a modern E-shift system more or less reliable?
    It's a non-issue for either system as the reliability is very high. Maybe your electronic system fails once every few years or your brake a cable once in a while. It's not the end of the world in either case.

    The same logic applies to 10 and 11 speed systems. They're not as strong or durable as 6 and 7 speed but the benefits outweigh the modest penalty in durability for most people.

  18. #118
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    My coach snapped a FD cable on a hilly ride. Don't even think to tell me cables don't "just do that".

    Do you let every battery you have die before you recharge it, or do you plug them in at consistent intervals so that they always have power when you need it?
    Your coach needed a real mechanic, and proper maintenance. It's just not that difficult, see above.

    Let me check my remote oven probe, toothbrushes, flashlights, GDO controllers, auto key fobs, motorcycle fob, TV remotes, cable box controllers, DVD controllers, telephones, iPad, iPhone, laptops, iPods, Bluetooth earpiece, stick blender, external hard drivers, thumb drives and something else I forgot to charge (like a DI2 battery) and I'll get back to you on that.

    -Bandera
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  19. #119
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    Your coach needed a real mechanic, and proper maintenance. It's just not that difficult, see above.

    Let me check my remote oven probe, toothbrushes, flashlights, GDO controllers, auto key fobs, motorcycle fob, TV remotes, cable box controllers, DVD controllers, telephones, iPad, iPhone, laptops, iPods, Bluetooth earpiece, stick blender, external hard drivers, thumb drives and something else I forgot to charge (like a DI2 battery) and I'll get back to you on that.

    -Bandera
    Uh, you realize that some of those don't have batteries, right?

  20. #120
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakedatc View Post
    [URL]Blanco aka former Rabobank pro team not going to find them in TX sorry

    EVERY day the bikes get washed and re-lubed, so they would notice. On rest days they also put on new chains, brake cables, bar tape,brake pads and they also check every bolt too. it is their job and they have a LOT to do.
    Damn, sounds like just what I need if they did lawn care too.

    And Blanco is such a fine Hill Country town......maybe they will relocate?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanco,_Texas

    -Bandera
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  21. #121
    Ding! Bandera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Uh, you realize that some of those don't have batteries, right?
    Wasting my time yet again, like trying to wind that Rolex?

    -Bandera
    '74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

  22. #122
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
    Wasting my time yet again, like trying to wind that Rolex?

    -Bandera
    Do you have a thumb drive with a battery? Because I've never seen one.

  23. #123
    Senior Member 99Klein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakedatc View Post
    99klein has been against compacts even before he tried one and put on a stupid combo for his area so that he would hate it. nothing new there
    The "stupid combo" came stock from Cannonadle and had nothing to do with me. I was worried about loosing two teeth on the top and never gave the small ring any thought before trying it. I could live with the big ring, small ring is useless. ..probably why you all ride in the big ring most of the time.

    I'm never afraid to try something new. If you don't learn something new every day you're not trying. I'm also not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong.

    We should probably all drive the same car as you too.

    Sorry I don't like your Kool aid.
    When you argue with an idiot, from a bystanders point of view, it may be hard to discern which is the idiot. (dis·cern: Verb - Perceive or recognize)

  24. #124
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Oh, and in the 53/42 days, were 650c wheels more common? That'd change effective gearing quite a bit.
    Maybe in some circles where obscure rims and tires could be conjured up in seances. In mine it was strictly 700c tubulars, with 13-20, 13-21, or 13-22 freewheels, depending on what we were planning to climb. I'm a lot slower now.

    Here's what I like about 50-36. With a 11-23 it's the same as a 53-39 with a 12-25. Wtih an 11-25 it's the same as a 53-39 with a 12-27. And with an 11-28, I'd be able to go just about anywhere there's a road. I haven't used it yet because my chain's too short. (Stupid Trek.) After I wear out this chain I'll start exploring. But this is why I like compact cranks.

  25. #125
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    I can see how 52 might be better for a down the wind sprint at 35 mph. But it's probably easier to just get a 11-28 on the rear. same thing, right?
    5/20

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