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  1. #51
    Junior Member Blittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriku16 View Post
    Why not? I have gobs of excess watts to give a CVT a whirl...
    I meant this as a good thing, I would LOVE CVT on a bike. I have CVT in my car.. the thought about having it on my bike makes me drool

  2. #52
    Senior Member VA_Esquire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pallen View Post
    I hear all the teams will be riding hoverbikes in next year's TdF!
    Next year they won't even ride, they will just sit in coffee shops and dope up.
    Cat 6--*----------Cat 5
    Quote Originally Posted by thump55 View Post
    I use the elbow flick to let my wife know it's time for her to make me a samich.

  3. #53
    Senior Member DaveWC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Mitch View Post
    If electronic shifters are as smooth as most bike computers I'll see the rest of you standing around the start of the ride fiddling with them for twenty minutes before you can begin.
    There's nothing to wait for with either electronic shifters or computers as far as I can tell. I get on my bike, turn on the Garmin & start pedaling. The shifting works immediately and the Garmin will find the satellite whenever it does. Neither prevents me from riding right off the bat.

    The thing that I can't understand is that the vast majority of people who have negative things to say about Di2 (or any new technology for that matter) have never owned it or tried it for any appreciable amount of time, yet they know all of the things that they won't like about it. This is a good example... you have to wait for 20 minutes before riding a bike with Di2. The charging issue is another funny one. I've had Di2 since last September, have 9,300 kms on it and have charged it 2 times. You can check the charge in seconds, it gives plenty of warning well before you need to recharge, and even if it bonks it diverts all available power to the rear derailleur allowing you to get home with reasonable functionality.

  4. #54
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    I can't wait 'til I get electronic shifting. As it is, I'm far too tired to contend at the end of a spirited ride, what with all the energy I've expended by pushing on those damn mechanical levers.
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  5. #55
    Senior Member
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    Some hilarious responses, this forum is entertainment!

    Anyway, I've never ridden an electronic groupset but I love the idea of just tapping a button to shift, Playstation like.
    I appreciate gears, but how they are shifted is not a big concern to me.
    I am waiting for Di2 to trickle down to lower level groupsets, it just seems too pricey to me...for now.

    I want a high tech bike with an integrated display module, USB ports, and a solar cell integrated into the frame so there is no need for cable charging.
    I would even prefer a belt drive if an electronically shifted IGH could be made light.

    I have not ridden the Nuvinci hub, but suspect I would find the lack of feeling or hearing a gear change boring.

    Frankly I think road bikes should be more advanced than they are today, but it seems innovation is slower in this segment of the bike market compared to off-road and non competitive bikes.

    Still, there will always be simple fully mechanical bikes to ride, and no one says you have to sell or upgrade your current bike.
    I want the industry to keep moving forward but will still keep my singlespeed steel grocery bike to cruise around on

  6. #56
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    I wonder how long it will be until someone invents ABS braking for bicycles?

  7. #57
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenji666 View Post
    I wonder how long it will be until someone invents ABS braking for bicycles?
    My guess would be never.
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  8. #58
    Senior Member MegaTom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenji666 View Post
    I wonder how long it will be until someone invents ABS braking for bicycles?
    Quote Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
    My guess would be never.

    It's been done....

  9. #59
    Senior Member MegaTom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
    I can't wait 'til I get electronic shifting. As it is, I'm far too tired to contend at the end of a spirited ride, what with all the energy I've expended by pushing on those damn mechanical levers.
    Because that's exactly what it's all about...

  10. #60
    Senior Member KantoBoy's Avatar
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    I've ridden my Di2 bike less than 10x and I am sold - I've tried hilly, fast club rides and 1 race so far in it.

    I'd like to get Cav's take on Di2 vs Red...but we'll never get that of course

    The 10sp Ultegra version should go down in price soon. I got mine 1475 and was able to pick whatever config I wanted (the seller gave me a DA chain but since I've only used KMCs and 9sp Shimano before I don't know on how much difference does it really make).

  11. #61
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    I like feeling that click and the resistance in the lever.

    That feels too disconnected to me. I prefer downtube friction. I took a 30 year break and when I came back that mechanical indexed stuff just felt weird.

    I am a bit surprised that electronic shifting took as long as it did to hit the mass market. But now that the technology is out there, economies of scale should make it available on box store bikes in another five years.

  12. #62
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    There's nothing to wait for with either electronic shifters or computers as far as I can tell. I get on my bike, turn on the Garmin & start pedaling. The shifting works immediately and the Garmin will find the satellite whenever it does. Neither prevents me from riding right off the bat.

    The thing that I can't understand is that the vast majority of people who have negative things to say about Di2 (or any new technology for that matter) have never owned it or tried it for any appreciable amount of time, yet they know all of the things that they won't like about it. This is a good example... you have to wait for 20 minutes before riding a bike with Di2. The charging issue is another funny one. I've had Di2 since last September, have 9,300 kms on it and have charged it 2 times. You can check the charge in seconds, it gives plenty of warning well before you need to recharge, and even if it bonks it diverts all available power to the rear derailleur allowing you to get home with reasonable functionality.
    To be fair, there's a LOT of stupid crap that gets invented for bikes all the time. A quick search of kickstarter will show that. Ultimately, time and the market will make things clear, though I think electronic shifting has pretty well proven itself.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  13. #63
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
    I like feeling that click and the resistance in the lever.

    That feels too disconnected to me. I prefer downtube friction. I took a 30 year break and when I came back that mechanical indexed stuff just felt weird.

    I am a bit surprised that electronic shifting took as long as it did to hit the mass market. But now that the technology is out there, economies of scale should make it available on box store bikes in another five years.
    It turned out to be a harder problem than it might seem. Mavic failed miserably at it and Campy spent over two decades working on it.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  14. #64
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaTom View Post
    It's been done....
    Huh, I stand corrected. I would have thought that the pulsing would be a serious risk, but they've evidently side-stepped that.
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  15. #65
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaTom View Post
    Because that's exactly what it's all about...
    What what is all about?
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  16. #66
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
    I can't wait 'til I get electronic shifting. As it is, I'm far too tired to contend at the end of a spirited ride, what with all the energy I've expended by pushing on those damn mechanical levers.
    Wait, wait, wait. Di2 will leave me fresher for the run? Excuse me while I pull out my credit card.

  17. #67
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriku16 View Post
    Laugh and make the funny retro grouch comments all you want... Ones perceived age has nothing to do with it. The reality is that the bicycle took a VERY long time to evolve to be the simple, light HUMAN powered and operated machine it is today. It all about maximizing the puny amount of energy we humans output to make the most efficient means to move and to operate it from point A to B. Adding electro-servo motors to replace muscle power is the antithesis to what a bicycle is all about in the first place.

    IMO, electronic shifting is just a FAD, get it? Because if the fails don't make you quit it, planned obsolescence of the systems will. Saw a quite a few fails in the pro ranks over the past few years. No one wants to talk about them though. Why being so quiet? Oh, it may hurts sales, that's why...
    I have the feeling those *****ing about electronic shifters would be *****ing about brifters a generation ago, indexed shifting two generations ago, and derailleurs three generations ago.

    I may have my exact timeline wrong, but you get the idea.

  18. #68
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    Wait, wait, wait. Di2 will leave me fresher for the run? Excuse me while I pull out my credit card.
    Of course it will - it has batteries -> it's not powered by you ----> you MUST have more energy at the end.


    Order a set for me, too, while you're at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  19. #69
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    I have the feeling those *****ing about electronic shifters would be *****ing about brifters a generation ago, indexed shifting two generations ago, and derailleurs three generations ago.

    I may have my exact timeline wrong, but you get the idea.
    "I applaud this test, but I still feel that variable gears are only for people over 45. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on fellows. Let's say that the test was a fine demonstration - for our grandparents! As for me, give me a fixed gear!" --Henri Desgranges, 1902.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  20. #70
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
    "I applaud this test, but I still feel that variable gears are only for people over 45. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on fellows. Let's say that the test was a fine demonstration - for our grandparents! As for me, give me a fixed gear!" --Henri Desgranges, 1902.
    Well, I'm a triathlete, so I'm soft as a marshmallow. Bring on 14-speed Di2.

  21. #71
    Senior Member MegaTom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
    What what is all about?
    I'm not a sales guy. Talk to one of those or google up some reviews if you're really interested.

  22. #72
    Senior Member WhyFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaTom View Post
    I'm not a sales guy. Talk to one of those or google up some reviews if you're really interested.
    I assumed that you didn't miss my sarcasm, but now I'm starting to think that you missed my sarcasm. Or am I missing yours? Damn, I hate it when this happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    I would wager that not riding in Minnesota is just as fatiguing as not riding in New York.

  23. #73
    Senior Member MegaTom's Avatar
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    It happens.

  24. #74
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    I don't have a power meter, so I don't know what my average power output is on my bike, but
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance
    says amateur riders can produce 210 watts for an hour. As an electrical engineer, my educated guess is that the Di2 probably averages 10 to 100 milliwatts of power draw. At 100 mW (and I think that's a high guess), that's 0.05% of your power that you're saving by not shifting mechanically.

    I'm pretty sure that's imperceptible.
    Alan
    Last edited by RFEngineer; 07-02-13 at 09:31 PM.

  25. #75
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriku16 View Post
    Laugh and make the funny retro grouch comments all you want...
    'kay


    The reality is that the bicycle took a VERY long time to evolve to be the simple, light HUMAN powered and operated machine it is today.
    It still is human powered. In case you missed it, electronic shifters do not add a single watt of power to the drivetrain.


    Adding electro-servo motors to replace muscle power is the antithesis to what a bicycle is all about in the first place.
    Do you really not understand how electronic shifting works?

    Di2 does not "replace muscle power." It improves shifting, and that's pretty much it. You might as well say that integrating the brake lever and the shift lever is a vile debasement of cycling, because it makes it easier to shift.


    IMO, electronic shifting is just a FAD, get it?
    So says the guy who is outraged that it exists in the first place.


    Because if the fails don't make you quit it, planned obsolescence of the systems will.
    Mechanical shifting faces just as much "obsolescence" as electronic shifting.

    In a few years, you'll have the same problems replacing Di2 components as you will 9-speed components.


    Saw a quite a few fails in the pro ranks over the past few years. No one wants to talk about them though.
    Uh, in case you missed it, the pros have had lots of "fails" with mechanical shifting over the years -- the most notorious in recent memory being Andy Schleck dropping a chain during the 2010 Tour de France.

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