Hiro11

Even better.

Campag4life

Only thing I will add to thirdgenbird's good comments OP is what I know. It maybe necessary to change the axle spacer on your Record hub if you switch to a Sram/Shimano 8/10s free hub. More just below.

I have two sets of Fulcrum 5 wheels. One I run on a Campy bike and the other on a Shimano bike. I looked into converting the Shimano hub Fulcrum 5 wheelset to another Campy bike. I was curious if all that was necessary was to swap out the freehub so I wrote an email to Fulcrum's tech department. Their response was...the wheelset and hubs, spokes and rim are all identical for both types of freehub. Wheel dish is identical for both. But if you change your Shimano freehub Fulcrum 5 to a Campy freehub, you will have to change the axle spacers as well for the dish and spacing to be correct. This is because the Shimano freehub is a slightly different length i.e. shorter and many may know that the dish of a Shimano rear wheel is slightly less than most Campy wheels. The way Fulcrum handles this difference is with their axle spacers...keeping the same axle hub length and wheel dish.

Have a look below at the Tech Manual Part nos. for the Fulcrum 5. As it turns out I believe the Fulcrum 5 Shimano freehub is what you need OP for your Record hub. You may want to confirm this with Campy however in an email. Also see the box of a Campy sold Shimano freehub for the Fulcrum 5 which I believe is compatible with your new Record rear hub.

In summary, for about $60-80 you can convert your Record rear hub to run your Sram 10s groupset. If you want you can ebay your Campy free hub for almost a net wash cost wise. Also you will have the option of course to convert to Campy and keep the free hub handy if you get a wild hair. The real question is...and I would like to hear from others on this for their opinion is...and maybe an email to Campy or Fulcrum would help...should you change your axle spacers that come with your Campy freehub Record hub...or....simply adjust the dish of the wheel accordingly since you are making your wheelset from scratch and can dish the wheel how you like.

thirdgenbird

I wondr if you still need spacers with the 11spd shimano body. I'm guessing this is awful close in spacing to Campagnolo.

105 hubs are nice, but they won't let you run Campagnolo or 11spd shimano/sram. I wouldn't want to be in that box. You would need new wheels for all of these groups:
super record
record
chorus
athena
dura ace
ultegra
red 22
force 22
(rival and 105 are likely right around the corner)

Campag4life

New Shimano 11s spacing is a real cat and mouse with Campagnolo. Shimano could never bring themselves to commonize with Campy...never.
Shimano was in a box with there 10s...which partly contributed to their poor shift performance. Tighter cog spacing than Campy 10s and shorter freehub and less wheel dish which btw theoretically makes for a stronger and stable rear wheel. But when Shimano had to up the ante to 11s...no dice...they ran out of real estate. Their current wheel dish didn't allow for enough room to accommodate a longer 11s freehub. Of course Shimano couldn't have the same 11s cog spacing as Campy so they went with even more dish to spread out their cog spacing and in doing so really improved shift performance. As to compatibility...an adept bike tuner could get either 11s to brand to shift OK with the same wheelset...it just wouldn't be ideal.

PS: good catch on the 11s compatibility spacing issue thirdgenbird. If I were the OP, I would strongly consider a 11s Shimano hub and run a Shimano spacer if running Sram 10s. Reason is...this would promote an upgrade to either Shimano 11s or to Sram 11s in the future.

kimconyc

1) This is my opinion about Campagnolo Record Hubs (since I own a wheelset with them). While they are very durable and smooth hubs, I would not recommend them in this situation because:
a) You run a Shimano/SRAM drivetrain and it's just a big headache to make it all work despite what anyone here will tell you. We are talking about a wheelset, it shouldn't be this complicated.
b) You appear to have an opaque budget describing yourself as "broke". However, Record hubs are pretty high-end. It doesn't make sense to shell out all this money IMO for hubs if you have a limited budget and are a college student. You can get an education in racing with or without good hubs. They won't make that much of a difference.

Opinions about spokes: Since you are going to be running 32 across the board with something like Record hubs, it also doesn't make sense to use aero spokes, since the sheer number of spokes will greatly negate the aero benefits of the bladed spokes.

IMO, if you want to go custom hand-built, you are probably better off getting something like 105 hubs (just as smooth as Record but much cheaper) with round spokes.

However, the best solution is probably to either ride what you have or get a stock wheelset. For example, you can get something like Fulcrum Race 3's (Campy hub but Shimano compatible) which will be lighter, much cheaper, and come with a better factory warranty than custom hand-built. I would only go custom hand-built if you like to tinker or have a budget that is all inclusive of the costs of maintaining a custom hand-built set.

thirdgenbird

Why on earth is this complicated or a headache? It take a few min to swap freehubs. If you can't do this, you should even consider lacing wheels.


again, I not saying these are the best option, but calling it a headache is laughable. There are better hubs for someone on a budget but think hard before buying 105. It may sound cheap now, but it will cost you more if you upgrade to 11spd down the line.

achoo

It's harder than it has to be - making it relatively complicated and an unnecessary headache.

And when you're budget-constrained, there's not point in paying for the Campy Record name, and then having to shell out even more for another freehub - probably $60-$80 or so - on top of that. The only reason I ever did the freehub swap was because I scored a Campy Khamsin wheelset for $100.

canam73

I guess rpenman was right.

OP, I wouldn't take advice from this one. He makes stuff up.

achoo

I also don't think custom wheels are going to be any more expensive than equivalent factory-built wheels. In fact, I suspect that custom wheels might even be cheaper.

You can get a set with 105 hubs and Mavic CXP-33s for $349 from bicyclewheelwarehouse.com. Seemed to be in the 1800+ gram range - not surprising as they were 32x front and rear.

I went to prowheelbuilder.com and put together a set of Pacenti SL23s laced to WI T11 hubs (24 radial front, 32 3x rear) for $631 - and they had CX Rays on the front. And prowheelbuilder.com seems to jog my memory as one of the more expensive places to get a wheel built...

K. Legaspi

Well, in the case of the CX Rays being pointless, I will take that advice but the reason I'm going for something like the set up I'm going for is because I have Shimano RS10s at the moment that flex whenever I'm off the saddle. It rubs the brakes and my calipers are as open as they can be (safely). I had Fulcrum Racing 7s as well and I've broken the spokes on those more than twice. I have Velomax/Easton Circuit wheels that seem to flex just as much as the RS10s do. I have Mavic Aksiums that I've broken spokes on more times than I can remember. I've ridden on a borrowed set of Easton Tempest II carbon wheels that STILL flexed and I rode it for 6 months which I'm sure gave me enough seat time to notice.

The custom wheels that I stated in my original post was recommended to me and from my research, the SL23s definitely fit into what I need in a wheelset. As for the hubs, I'm thinking that it's definitely still a toss up between the T11 and R45s. I can get a decent deal from one of the LBS around here and the only reason I'm REALLY considering the R45s is because all of the racers in my area recommended them to me and loved them. But why R45s if I'm broke you ask? Well, my LBS offered me a good payment plan and a good deal. This way, I can get the wheel I really want without having to dump the money all at once.

thirdgenbird

I would go t11 but...

i still think its silly to call a freehub swap complicated. Budget friendly no, but its about as complicated as brushing your teeth.

Campag4life

Initially when I read your opening post, I thought...just another newb that wanted custom wheels that couldn't afford them. Reading your posts and experience, I realize that you are right now that I have read what you have been through. No factory wheels won't do for you. You have special needs because of your size and apparent strength. 32 spoke front and back makes a lot of sense.
Let us know what you decide. If you do move forward with Record hubs...as a Campy guy I can tell you they are outstanding but I haven't run them with a Shimano freehub design...I will be curious what you do with wheel dish/axle spacing in particular. My sense is this will be a non issue. Slap the Shimano style (made by Campy) freehub on there and dish the rear wheel accordingly and should be good to go. Easy as pie as thirdgenbird stated.

Also, if you want to dig a lot deeper...one of the cool things about Campy is they publish tech manuals for most of the stuff they make and available on line in PDF form....where I got the Fulcrum 5 part break down. No doubt if you dig around the web...or contact Campy, they will send you the PDF likely showing a complete part breakdown...possibly both freehubs in fact. Also you have this in the event you service the Record hubs which are fully serviceable.

A final note. If you can find the Campy version of Shimano 11s freehub, that is the one I suggest you install on your Record rear hub. See below. Install it with the Shimano spacer that allows running a 10s Sram or Shimano cassette. The reason is opportunity to upgrade in the future. Sram is going 11s as DA has gone and Campy has been for a long time. You may also decide to upgrade at some point in the future. Lots of guys stuck with 10s Shimano wheelsets who are stuck in the mud if they decide to go DA9000 or Sram Red 11s when it hits the market...requiring new hub, freehub and wheel rebuild and different dishing.

achoo

The T11 has a TI freehub. As big and as strong as you appear to be, you might as well get a freehub you won't cut up. The T11 is also a lot less expensive than the R45. Regarding stiffness, the T11 rear hub has a slightly better geometry than the R45 per the numbers I saw on WI's and CK's web sites so it should build up into a slightly stiffer wheel, all other things being equal.

Also, if 32 spokes is sufficient on the rear wheel with the SL23 rim, with the same rim it's going to be overkill on the front. You can probably use 24 spokes on the front, which is probably low enough to start thinking about CX Rays. Even though you'd only save about 1W of power at 30 mph over standard spokes....

kimconyc

It's complicated because the OP says that he is on a budget but now has to do two things:
1) Buy a Shimano freehub body for the Campagnolo Record hubs, which will cost money.
2) Physically swap out the freehub body or have somebody do it for him. Again, if you read my post, I clearly state that this option is for people who:
a) Enjoy tinkering, or...
b) Have the money do so (it's implied in the OP's original post that he is on a limited budget).

I just checked an online retailer based in the UK starting with the word "Rib" and a pair of Fulcrum Racing 3's cost $460.52 before shipping and a pair of Shimano Ultegra 6700 Clinchers cost $287.77.

I would argue, and refute me if I am mistaken, that both wheelsets are nearly impossible to beat based on a combination of price, warranty, and quality of construction.

Look at it this way, if one were to buy a Campagnolo Record hubset that comes with a warranty and also a Shimano freehub body for said hubs, it would surely cost more than both of those wheelsets I listed above--and we haven't even started talking about spokes, rims, labor (again, implied that the OP is not going to lace his own hoops) for building the wheelset, etc.

Personally, I think even a "broke college student" can do work-study or scrounge up enough cash ($300) for the Ultegra wheelset, ride them, an resell them without much monetary loss a year or two later, as opposed to the option of getting a custom-handbuilt set for > $600, swapping out the freehub body, etc.

Campag4life

Keep in mind that a lot of guys who talk wheel builds have other guys do the build...and they don't spin a wrench.
Using a pawl retainer btw, is kind of like flossing. I bet most guys on the 41...would put that percentage maybe as high as 90% do NOT remove their freehub for service at home. Only a guess but believe it is accurate. The percentage may even be higher.

Campag4life

I think where you are wrong is...as bulletproof as the Fulcrum 3 wheelsets are...I am a Fulcrum rider who weighs 185#, they will NOT hold up under the OP's 240# big watt output period. That is the crux of discussion here. The OP has special needs. He is an outliar. A big strong boy with lots of power who bends wheels easily out of the saddle. Fulcrum 3's will likely survive a 200 lb Cat 1 or 2, but the OP is in another league.
The Record hub thing is a no brainer if the OP wants the flexibility in particular to run ANY groupset in the future. Its his call of course but I believe he needs minimum 32 spokes in the back wheel in particular.

thirdgenbird

For goodness sakes... I've said multiple times that it isn't cheap, and its not my recommendation, but that doesn't make it a complicated headache. it makes in a unnessisary expense. Think about the next guy that isn't concerned about the budget as much or finds a killer deal on campagnolopre build wheels. it wouldn't be a headache for them to swap out a freehub. It's easier than changing a press in bb or headset.

If you pay someone else isn't it even easier


edit: noticed the OPs weight. Now I think it is a viable option.

Campag4life

Actually I believe Record hubs are pretty cost effective even with buying a separate Shimano style freehub...especially if you ebay the Campy freehub..but even without. Record hubs if sratch around maybe the best high end hub for the money...and CK not so much.

K. Legaspi

I am by no means saying I'm "powerful." Hahahaha. That is a joke. I'm sure my weight is the reason for the flexing and breaking of the spokes.

I've thought about the spoke count before posting this thread and would definitely agree that I think I need a 32 spoke wheelset. Would it be overkill to have 32 up front as well?

As for hub choice, I still haven't made up my mind. I think from what you guys have said, It's smart that I rule out the Record hubs because of the "extra" work. Now, I'm not saying it's difficult work, but it's extra work. And if I got a set built with the Record hubs for ~ $600-700 plus having to buy the freewheel, it's almost like paying for the T11 and that would just be one bill away from what I could get an R45 equipped wheelset for. Although, if I ever get my dream bike which will be equipped with Campy stuff, I will definitely be picking up a wheelset with Record hubs.

And just to note, I mentioned that I was a "broke college student" because at the time of my posting, my only option was to buy the wheelset up front but now I have the option for a "Payment Plan." This opens up more options as I don't have to dump my money all at once. (I think I mentioned that already. Lol. )

By the way, thanks to all of you who have been patient and understanding of the situation. And I think it's funny that this thread was sought after as "just another newb that wanted custom wheels that couldn't afford them." ... Because I AM a newb to custom built wheels.

I'm just a newb that wants a proper wheelset is all.

slowride454

I recently got a set of wheels from another BF member in the classified section. They are H Plus Son Archtypes on BHS hubs. They are AWESOME!!! Fairly lightweight, climb like a goat, and roll forever.

Campag4life

The point is...you are a newb that needs a custom wheelset. I recommend machine built off the shelf wheels for the vast majority of riders...what I ride.
As to your question about 32 spoke in front. I would if you. Spoke count is one of the most debated issues on here in wheel build threads. Pretty sure Rob aka Psimet would suggest at least 32 spokes all around...he tends to be a proponent of higher spoke counts for bigger guys as am I...but am not speaking for him. If you move away from Record hubs, consider 36 spokes in back...or at least discuss it with a couple of wheelbuilders. Spokes don't weigh much and offer little increase in aero drag and make a big difference in wheel strength.

K. Legaspi

I'm not worried about aerodynamics in these wheels as racing crits, I feel, don't really require much aero if you're the kind of racer I am. Which is, wait in the middle of the field for the sprint if there's a breakaway, just finish it. Lol (Or just try to keep up. ) It seems that the best option for me is 32+ spokes after reading what you guys have said and what 2 of the guys from my LBS that build wheels here in my town have said. And after reviewing on the spokes, I'd have to take you guys's advice on just going with "regular" spokes instead of the CX Rays. Now to make a decision on the hub...

kimconyc

Having two custom wheelsets (Record, DT Swiss 240s), my recommendation:

If you have $400 for hubs: White Industries T11's! If you do 2x with DT Swiss Comp spokes on both front and rear (or 3xDS 2xNDS due to the tangential 3x, blah blah...the expert wheelbuilders will probably chime in here ), you should have for a very stiff and durable wheelset.

Or $130 for hubs: 105's. It seems like some people are not too keen on 105 hubs but IMO it's really hard to beat $130 for 105 hubs and the level of quality that they offer at that price. Just my opinion. Also, IMO the fact that the 105 hubs are not 11 speed compatible is moot since upgrading the entire drivetrain to 11 speed is opening up a whole different can of worms.

Hiro11

Perhaps "easy", but again an uneccessarily complicated, expensive option when basically any other hub in the world is going to be compatible straight out of the box. OP, forget about the Record hubs. Honestly, my recommendation is to just get that idea out of your head. 105s are what you need.

K. Legaspi

I ought to change the title of this thread to...

"Custom Wheelset Help for 240 lb-er"

Sorry, if this topic has completely gone off track but I'm definitely going to go with something that is Shimano compatible out of the box. The guys at my LBS and the people I race with have me convinced on the R45s and I'm willing to pay for the R45s if it's as good as they say it is. It will only take me longer to pay for but I don't mind if they're really that good. Is there any reason for me NOT to go with the R45s with the price not in consideration?

Thank you again for all your help to anyone and everyone that contributed in this thread.