Serotta News and it is not good...
08-01-13, 11:09 AM
#26
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08-01-13, 11:19 AM
#27
Endangered Serotta Rider
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Kind of a blue news day for me... My #1 ride is my 2005 Serotta Concours. I always wanted to treat myself to a custom Ti bike, finally pulled the trigger back then and haven't regretted it since. It wasn't cheap, but their pricing on the Concours wasn't all that bad 8 years ago. Sorry to see them go. They were standard-setters for a while, but technology (a 2.5 hour fitting ordeal and lugged CF?) and the world have moved on. Many of their biggest dealers dropped them as their business model strangled itself and their dealer base was eroding for a few years now. Oh, well--life goes on...
08-01-13, 11:44 AM
#28
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No, there is a huge lug in the back. Right behind the seat tube dropping back the seat stays...mor eyou can't see in the bottom bracket area. And the bike ain't cheap either.
08-01-13, 12:57 PM
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I read in the BRAIN story that Ben Serotta and his CEO presented their future plan to the DBG people, got the go-ahead, then the DBG people promptly informed them that no funds will be forthcoming in support of the plan.
The lesson here is never get involved with sharks, unless you have your own sharks to help you negotiate. It is quite obvious to me that the DBG people were only interested in Serotta as a brand whose manufacturing they were gonna move to China.
The lesson here is never get involved with sharks, unless you have your own sharks to help you negotiate. It is quite obvious to me that the DBG people were only interested in Serotta as a brand whose manufacturing they were gonna move to China.
08-01-13, 01:28 PM
#30
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Swimming with sharks
Forward
Actually, nobody wants to swim with sharks. It is not an acknowledged sport and it is neither enjoyable nor exhilarating. These instructions are written primarily for the benefit of those, who, by virtue of their occupation, find they must swim and find that the water is infested with sharks.
It is of obvious importance to learn that the waters are shark infested before commencing to swim. It is safe to say that this initial determination has already been made. If the waters were infested, the naïve swimmer is by now probably beyond help; at the very least, he has doubtless lost any interest in learning how to swim with sharks.
Finally, swimming with sharks is like any other skill: It cannot be learned from books alone; the novice must practice in order to develop the skill. The following rules simply set forth the fundamental principles which, if followed will make it possible to survive while becoming expert through practice.
Rules
Assume all unidentified fish are sharks. Not all sharks look like sharks, and some fish that are not sharks sometimes act like sharks. Unless you have witnessed docile behavior in the presence of shed blood on more than one occasion, it is best to assume an unknown species is a shark. Inexperienced swimmers have been badly mangled by assuming that docile behavior in the absence of blood indicates that the fish is not a shark.
Do not bleed. It is a cardinal principle that if you are injured, either by accident or by intent, you must not bleed. Experience shows that bleeding prompts an even more aggressive attack and will often provoke the participation of sharks that are uninvolved or, as noted above, are usually docile.
Admittedly, it is difficult not to bleed when injured. Indeed, at first this may seem impossible. Diligent practice, however, will permit the experienced swimmer to sustain a serious laceration without bleeding and without even exhibiting any loss of composure. This hemostatic reflect can, in part, be conditioned, but there may be constitutional aspects as well. Those who cannot learn to control their bleeding should not attempt to swim with sharks, for the peril is too great.
The control of bleeding has a positive protective element for the swimmer. The shark will be confused as to whether or not his attack has injured you and confusion is to the swimmer's advantage. On the other hand, the shark may know he has injured you and be puzzled as to why you do not bleed or show distress. This also has a profound effect on sharks. They begin to question their own potency or, alternatively, believe the swimmer to have supernatural powers.
Counter any aggression promptly. Sharks rarely attack a swimmer without warning. Usually there is some tentative, exploratory aggressive action. It is important that the swimmer recognize that this behavior is a prelude to an attack and takes prompt and vigorous remedial action. The appropriate countermove is a sharp blow to the nose. Almost invariably this will prevent a full-scale attack, for it makes it clear that you understand the shark's intention and are prepared to use whatever force is necessary to repel aggressive actions.
Some swimmers mistakenly believe that an ingratiating attitude will dispel an attack under these circumstances. This is not correct; such a response provokes a shark attack. Those who hold this erroneous view can usually be identified by their missing limb.
Get out of the water if someone is bleeding. If a swimmer (or shark) has been injured and is bleeding, get out of the water promptly. The presence of blood and the thrashing of water will elicit aggressive behavior even in the most docile of sharks. This latter group, poorly skilled in attacking, often behaves irrationally and may attack uninvolved swimmers and sharks. Some are so inept that, in the confusion, they injure themselves.
No useful purpose is served in attempting to rescue the injured swimmer. He either will or will not survive the attack, and your intervention cannot protect him once blood has been shed. Those who survive such an attack rarely venture to swim with sharks again, an attitude which is readily understandable.
The lack of effective countermeasures to a fully developed shark attack emphasizes the importance of the earlier rules.
Use anticipatory retaliation. A constant danger to the skilled swimmer is that the sharks will forget that he is skilled and may attack in error. Some sharks have notoriously poor memories in this regard. This memory loss can be prevented by a program of anticipatory retaliation. The skilled swimmer should engage in these activities periodically and the periods should be less than the memory span of the shark. Thus, it is not possible to state fixed intervals. The procedure may need to be repeated frequently with forgetful sharks and need be done only once for sharks with total recall.
The procedure is essentially the same as described under rule 3: a sharp blow to the nose. Here, however, the blow is unexpected and serves to remind the shark that you are both alert and unafraid. Swimmers should care not to injure the shark and draw blood during this exercise for two reasons: First, sharks often bleed profusely, and this leads to the chaotic situation described under rule 4. Second, if swimmers act in this fashion, it may not be possible to distinguish swimmers from sharks. Indeed, renegade swimmers are far worse than sharks, for none of the rules or measures described here is effective in controlling their aggressive behavior.
Disorganized and organized attack. Usually sharks are sufficiently self-centered that they do not act in concert against a swimmer. This lack of organization greatly reduces the risk of swimming among sharks. However, upon occasion the sharks may launch a coordinated attack upon a swimmer or even upon one of their number. While the latter event is of no particular concern to swimmer, it is essential that one know how to handle an organized shark attack directed against a swimmer.
The proper strategy is diversion. Sharks can be diverted from their organized attack in one of two ways. First, sharks as a group, are prone to internal dissension. An experienced swimmer can divert an organized attack by introducing something, often minor or trivial, which sets the sharks to fighting among themselves. Usually by the time the internal conflict is settled the sharks cannot even recall what they were setting about to do, much less get organized to do it.
A second mechanism of diversion is to introduce something that so enrages the members of the group that they begin to lash out in all directions, even attacking inanimate objects in their fury.
What should be introduced? Unfortunately, different things prompt internal dissension of blind fury in different groups of sharks. Here one must be experienced in dealing with a given group of sharks, for what enrages one group will pass unnoted by another.
It is scarcely necessary to state that it is unethical for a swimmer under attack by a group of sharks to counter the attack by diverting them to another swimmer. It is, however, common to see this done by novice swimmers and by sharks when under concerted attack.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
08-01-13, 01:43 PM
#31
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^my head hurts just reading a few paragraphs!
I really enjoyed the last paragraph about the ethical thing to do when being attacked by sharks. Really nice!
I really enjoyed the last paragraph about the ethical thing to do when being attacked by sharks. Really nice!
08-01-13, 01:55 PM
#33
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Long for a forum post, but it really is loaded with good advice for dealing with sharks.
Fortunately, they avoid me as a matter of professional courtesy.
Fortunately, they avoid me as a matter of professional courtesy.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
08-01-13, 04:02 PM
#35
my nice bike is at home
Serotta steel frames from the 80's are the bee's knee's!
08-01-13, 04:47 PM
#36
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Swimming with sharks
Forward
Actually, nobody wants to swim with sharks. It is not an acknowledged sport and it is neither enjoyable nor exhilarating. These instructions are written primarily for the benefit of those, who, by virtue of their occupation, find they must swim and find that the water is infested with sharks.
It is of obvious importance to learn that the waters are shark infested before commencing to swim. It is safe to say that this initial determination has already been made. If the waters were infested, the naïve swimmer is by now probably beyond help; at the very least, he has doubtless lost any interest in learning how to swim with sharks.
Finally, swimming with sharks is like any other skill: It cannot be learned from books alone; the novice must practice in order to develop the skill. The following rules simply set forth the fundamental principles which, if followed will make it possible to survive while becoming expert through practice.
Rules
Assume all unidentified fish are sharks. Not all sharks look like sharks, and some fish that are not sharks sometimes act like sharks. Unless you have witnessed docile behavior in the presence of shed blood on more than one occasion, it is best to assume an unknown species is a shark. Inexperienced swimmers have been badly mangled by assuming that docile behavior in the absence of blood indicates that the fish is not a shark.
Do not bleed. It is a cardinal principle that if you are injured, either by accident or by intent, you must not bleed. Experience shows that bleeding prompts an even more aggressive attack and will often provoke the participation of sharks that are uninvolved or, as noted above, are usually docile.
Admittedly, it is difficult not to bleed when injured. Indeed, at first this may seem impossible. Diligent practice, however, will permit the experienced swimmer to sustain a serious laceration without bleeding and without even exhibiting any loss of composure. This hemostatic reflect can, in part, be conditioned, but there may be constitutional aspects as well. Those who cannot learn to control their bleeding should not attempt to swim with sharks, for the peril is too great.
The control of bleeding has a positive protective element for the swimmer. The shark will be confused as to whether or not his attack has injured you and confusion is to the swimmer's advantage. On the other hand, the shark may know he has injured you and be puzzled as to why you do not bleed or show distress. This also has a profound effect on sharks. They begin to question their own potency or, alternatively, believe the swimmer to have supernatural powers.
Counter any aggression promptly. Sharks rarely attack a swimmer without warning. Usually there is some tentative, exploratory aggressive action. It is important that the swimmer recognize that this behavior is a prelude to an attack and takes prompt and vigorous remedial action. The appropriate countermove is a sharp blow to the nose. Almost invariably this will prevent a full-scale attack, for it makes it clear that you understand the shark's intention and are prepared to use whatever force is necessary to repel aggressive actions.
Some swimmers mistakenly believe that an ingratiating attitude will dispel an attack under these circumstances. This is not correct; such a response provokes a shark attack. Those who hold this erroneous view can usually be identified by their missing limb.
Get out of the water if someone is bleeding. If a swimmer (or shark) has been injured and is bleeding, get out of the water promptly. The presence of blood and the thrashing of water will elicit aggressive behavior even in the most docile of sharks. This latter group, poorly skilled in attacking, often behaves irrationally and may attack uninvolved swimmers and sharks. Some are so inept that, in the confusion, they injure themselves.
No useful purpose is served in attempting to rescue the injured swimmer. He either will or will not survive the attack, and your intervention cannot protect him once blood has been shed. Those who survive such an attack rarely venture to swim with sharks again, an attitude which is readily understandable.
The lack of effective countermeasures to a fully developed shark attack emphasizes the importance of the earlier rules.
Use anticipatory retaliation. A constant danger to the skilled swimmer is that the sharks will forget that he is skilled and may attack in error. Some sharks have notoriously poor memories in this regard. This memory loss can be prevented by a program of anticipatory retaliation. The skilled swimmer should engage in these activities periodically and the periods should be less than the memory span of the shark. Thus, it is not possible to state fixed intervals. The procedure may need to be repeated frequently with forgetful sharks and need be done only once for sharks with total recall.
The procedure is essentially the same as described under rule 3: a sharp blow to the nose. Here, however, the blow is unexpected and serves to remind the shark that you are both alert and unafraid. Swimmers should care not to injure the shark and draw blood during this exercise for two reasons: First, sharks often bleed profusely, and this leads to the chaotic situation described under rule 4. Second, if swimmers act in this fashion, it may not be possible to distinguish swimmers from sharks. Indeed, renegade swimmers are far worse than sharks, for none of the rules or measures described here is effective in controlling their aggressive behavior.
Disorganized and organized attack. Usually sharks are sufficiently self-centered that they do not act in concert against a swimmer. This lack of organization greatly reduces the risk of swimming among sharks. However, upon occasion the sharks may launch a coordinated attack upon a swimmer or even upon one of their number. While the latter event is of no particular concern to swimmer, it is essential that one know how to handle an organized shark attack directed against a swimmer.
The proper strategy is diversion. Sharks can be diverted from their organized attack in one of two ways. First, sharks as a group, are prone to internal dissension. An experienced swimmer can divert an organized attack by introducing something, often minor or trivial, which sets the sharks to fighting among themselves. Usually by the time the internal conflict is settled the sharks cannot even recall what they were setting about to do, much less get organized to do it.
A second mechanism of diversion is to introduce something that so enrages the members of the group that they begin to lash out in all directions, even attacking inanimate objects in their fury.
What should be introduced? Unfortunately, different things prompt internal dissension of blind fury in different groups of sharks. Here one must be experienced in dealing with a given group of sharks, for what enrages one group will pass unnoted by another.
It is scarcely necessary to state that it is unethical for a swimmer under attack by a group of sharks to counter the attack by diverting them to another swimmer. It is, however, common to see this done by novice swimmers and by sharks when under concerted attack.
Forward
Actually, nobody wants to swim with sharks. It is not an acknowledged sport and it is neither enjoyable nor exhilarating. These instructions are written primarily for the benefit of those, who, by virtue of their occupation, find they must swim and find that the water is infested with sharks.
It is of obvious importance to learn that the waters are shark infested before commencing to swim. It is safe to say that this initial determination has already been made. If the waters were infested, the naïve swimmer is by now probably beyond help; at the very least, he has doubtless lost any interest in learning how to swim with sharks.
Finally, swimming with sharks is like any other skill: It cannot be learned from books alone; the novice must practice in order to develop the skill. The following rules simply set forth the fundamental principles which, if followed will make it possible to survive while becoming expert through practice.
Rules
Assume all unidentified fish are sharks. Not all sharks look like sharks, and some fish that are not sharks sometimes act like sharks. Unless you have witnessed docile behavior in the presence of shed blood on more than one occasion, it is best to assume an unknown species is a shark. Inexperienced swimmers have been badly mangled by assuming that docile behavior in the absence of blood indicates that the fish is not a shark.
Do not bleed. It is a cardinal principle that if you are injured, either by accident or by intent, you must not bleed. Experience shows that bleeding prompts an even more aggressive attack and will often provoke the participation of sharks that are uninvolved or, as noted above, are usually docile.
Admittedly, it is difficult not to bleed when injured. Indeed, at first this may seem impossible. Diligent practice, however, will permit the experienced swimmer to sustain a serious laceration without bleeding and without even exhibiting any loss of composure. This hemostatic reflect can, in part, be conditioned, but there may be constitutional aspects as well. Those who cannot learn to control their bleeding should not attempt to swim with sharks, for the peril is too great.
The control of bleeding has a positive protective element for the swimmer. The shark will be confused as to whether or not his attack has injured you and confusion is to the swimmer's advantage. On the other hand, the shark may know he has injured you and be puzzled as to why you do not bleed or show distress. This also has a profound effect on sharks. They begin to question their own potency or, alternatively, believe the swimmer to have supernatural powers.
Counter any aggression promptly. Sharks rarely attack a swimmer without warning. Usually there is some tentative, exploratory aggressive action. It is important that the swimmer recognize that this behavior is a prelude to an attack and takes prompt and vigorous remedial action. The appropriate countermove is a sharp blow to the nose. Almost invariably this will prevent a full-scale attack, for it makes it clear that you understand the shark's intention and are prepared to use whatever force is necessary to repel aggressive actions.
Some swimmers mistakenly believe that an ingratiating attitude will dispel an attack under these circumstances. This is not correct; such a response provokes a shark attack. Those who hold this erroneous view can usually be identified by their missing limb.
Get out of the water if someone is bleeding. If a swimmer (or shark) has been injured and is bleeding, get out of the water promptly. The presence of blood and the thrashing of water will elicit aggressive behavior even in the most docile of sharks. This latter group, poorly skilled in attacking, often behaves irrationally and may attack uninvolved swimmers and sharks. Some are so inept that, in the confusion, they injure themselves.
No useful purpose is served in attempting to rescue the injured swimmer. He either will or will not survive the attack, and your intervention cannot protect him once blood has been shed. Those who survive such an attack rarely venture to swim with sharks again, an attitude which is readily understandable.
The lack of effective countermeasures to a fully developed shark attack emphasizes the importance of the earlier rules.
Use anticipatory retaliation. A constant danger to the skilled swimmer is that the sharks will forget that he is skilled and may attack in error. Some sharks have notoriously poor memories in this regard. This memory loss can be prevented by a program of anticipatory retaliation. The skilled swimmer should engage in these activities periodically and the periods should be less than the memory span of the shark. Thus, it is not possible to state fixed intervals. The procedure may need to be repeated frequently with forgetful sharks and need be done only once for sharks with total recall.
The procedure is essentially the same as described under rule 3: a sharp blow to the nose. Here, however, the blow is unexpected and serves to remind the shark that you are both alert and unafraid. Swimmers should care not to injure the shark and draw blood during this exercise for two reasons: First, sharks often bleed profusely, and this leads to the chaotic situation described under rule 4. Second, if swimmers act in this fashion, it may not be possible to distinguish swimmers from sharks. Indeed, renegade swimmers are far worse than sharks, for none of the rules or measures described here is effective in controlling their aggressive behavior.
Disorganized and organized attack. Usually sharks are sufficiently self-centered that they do not act in concert against a swimmer. This lack of organization greatly reduces the risk of swimming among sharks. However, upon occasion the sharks may launch a coordinated attack upon a swimmer or even upon one of their number. While the latter event is of no particular concern to swimmer, it is essential that one know how to handle an organized shark attack directed against a swimmer.
The proper strategy is diversion. Sharks can be diverted from their organized attack in one of two ways. First, sharks as a group, are prone to internal dissension. An experienced swimmer can divert an organized attack by introducing something, often minor or trivial, which sets the sharks to fighting among themselves. Usually by the time the internal conflict is settled the sharks cannot even recall what they were setting about to do, much less get organized to do it.
A second mechanism of diversion is to introduce something that so enrages the members of the group that they begin to lash out in all directions, even attacking inanimate objects in their fury.
What should be introduced? Unfortunately, different things prompt internal dissension of blind fury in different groups of sharks. Here one must be experienced in dealing with a given group of sharks, for what enrages one group will pass unnoted by another.
It is scarcely necessary to state that it is unethical for a swimmer under attack by a group of sharks to counter the attack by diverting them to another swimmer. It is, however, common to see this done by novice swimmers and by sharks when under concerted attack.
08-02-13, 10:57 AM
#37
Unique Vintage Steel
08-02-13, 12:24 PM
#39
pan y agua
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Setting aside a few unfortunate Huffy's.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...y-giro-ditalia
Seriously though, Serotta's with oversized steel tubing were nice bikes, and one of the first to use oversized tubing.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...y-giro-ditalia
Seriously though, Serotta's with oversized steel tubing were nice bikes, and one of the first to use oversized tubing.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
08-02-13, 01:13 PM
#40
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Setting aside a few unfortunate Huffy's.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...y-giro-ditalia
Seriously though, Serotta's with oversized steel tubing were nice bikes, and one of the first to use oversized tubing.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...y-giro-ditalia
Seriously though, Serotta's with oversized steel tubing were nice bikes, and one of the first to use oversized tubing.
08-02-13, 01:29 PM
#41
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People want "American made"...but apparently when it is...most can't afford it.
08-02-13, 04:05 PM
#42
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Visited the Serotta plant for what'll probably be the last time today. I live about 30 miles away, I've been there a number of times before and even did the full factory tour once in 2005. I picked up a set of replacement decals in case my present ones get beat up, a couple water bottles, a couple BB caps and a couple pairs of socks. It was glum there today--quiet as a tomb, and not any kind of atmosphere you wanted to be in. I got my ceremonial farewell swag, but it wasn't a fun visit.
08-02-13, 06:21 PM
#43
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Many are proving that American made can be reasonably priced. The manufacturer cannot ignore economic realities. Plants have to be modern and efficient. Technology has to be used to improve productivity. And so on. You can't ignore economic reality and the latest technologies and expect to be successful manufacturing in America today. Most of us can't afford to pay for the manufacturer's frivolities.
08-03-13, 12:02 AM
#44
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Coming soon to bikesdirect.com?
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Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.
08-03-13, 10:51 AM
#46
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08-03-13, 06:04 PM
#47
Senior Member
As a previous owner of a Serotta carbon bike I feel like I am in a position to say meh.
The bike was ok and did nothing wrong but with that said I expect a bike
that cost as much as it did to totally outperform or out comfort or out something
a bike that cost half as much. I kept my Roubaix and sold my HSG.
I wish Serotta had stuck with what they did best and that was to hand fabricate steel bikes. Maybe they would still be around today if they had.
The bike was ok and did nothing wrong but with that said I expect a bike
that cost as much as it did to totally outperform or out comfort or out something
a bike that cost half as much. I kept my Roubaix and sold my HSG.
I wish Serotta had stuck with what they did best and that was to hand fabricate steel bikes. Maybe they would still be around today if they had.
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BMC Roadmachine
Kona Jake the Snake
BMC Roadmachine
Kona Jake the Snake
08-03-13, 06:19 PM
#48
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One thing I think we agree on is that Ti lugs and carbon tubes are the worst use of both materials. I bet you could build a much better bike the other way around. But never mind that. Monocoque CF is clearly superior to anything you can glue or screw together from lugs and tubes. Why do (a few) people pay so much for such an ungainly frame design. Not even considering I think the aesthetics are horrendous.
I have only ridden a few monocoque frames but the ones I have ridden had a dead feel to me. The tube carbon frames I have ridden had a very lively feel to them.
Last edited by Carbon Unit; 08-03-13 at 06:23 PM.
08-03-13, 06:20 PM
#49
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I hate to hear any business have to cut their workforce by that much! Or any by that! Sounds like some internal issue with the mergered companies at hand that may have known what would happen.
08-03-13, 06:24 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central NC
Posts: 117
Bikes: Waterford Rs 22, GT ZuM
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My first really good frame was an early Colorado, followed by a CRT. When I got my Waterford, I thought that I didn't need the CRT and sold it. Now I wish that that I had it back. Great frame! A real shame.