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  1. #51
    Senior Member Breathegood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    I make no mention of SPD mountain system. I am strictly speaking of road pedals. See pics again for skii cleats.
    Did you not read your own first post? your pic for the shimano pedal doesn't match the text.
    1991 Trek 8700 - SS conversion, 2009 Gary Fisher "Kaitai", 2009 Raleigh Team, 2012 Raleigh Twin Six,1996 Cannondale SR500

  2. #52
    Senior Member VaultGuru's Avatar
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    How about a different question of Speedplays v. the others? I have used Speedplays for more than 20 year, averaging maybe 4k/yr, and peaking at around 7k/yr. during double century training for the last several years. Needless to say, I love Speedplays. However, I have developed Neuropathy in the balls of my feet. No overweight or diabetic issues that are most common to cause Neuropathy. I have been through Neuro tests, scans, nerve biopsies, etc., and they all come back negative. My Podiatrist is a Cat 2 racer, so he knows cycling. He says that my Neuropathy is probably caused by lots of miles on Speedplays because of the pressure exerted in a small area (pressure = force*area), and suggested I switch to a larger platform pedal. He also casted my feet and I have custom orthotics in my shoes. I am riding the Sidi Genius 6.6 shoes to dissipate the pressure as much as possible. I have put several thousand miles on the Sidi's (mega wide) and orthotics. They have helped a lot, but, the balls of my feet are still numb all the time. Surgery is not an option and I may have to live with the nerve damage.
    I see my Podiatrist this week. If I have to, I will reluctantly part ways with Speedplay to lessen the neuropathy advancement, so I will be interested to read your recommendations for a larger pedal platform.

  3. #53
    Senior Member decycle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaultGuru View Post
    Neuropathy is probably caused by lots of miles on Speedplays because of the pressure exerted in a small area (pressure = force*area), and suggested I switch to a larger platform pedal.
    Speedplay as a system of cleat+pedal actually cover the largest area on the shoe compared to the other known pedals in the market.
    The pedal may be small but when the large cleat is locked on the small pedal they become one. So your foot steps on a larger area compared to a Look or a Shimano.
    I think your podiatrist hasn't really understood how Speedplay works.

    By the way I used to ride on Look keo classic and a year ago I switched to Speedplay zero. Easier engagement and disengagement, more efficient pedal stroke and I actually find the free float as more friendly for my knees. The only drawback is the need for frequent lubrication, but that doesn't take more than 5 minutes and its something I can live with since I am OCD about bike maintenance. I'm definitely not going back to Look.


    @ovoleg: I agree that Speedplays are great pedals but I think you are annoying people. Take it easy. Let people find the right product for them by trial and error. I may like Speedplay but I think they are not for everyone like Shimano, Sram and Campagnolo respectively are not for everyone.

  4. #54
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    What?

    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  5. #55
    Senior Member BigJeff's Avatar
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    The company is a US company but they are made in Taiwan? yeah.

    Crank Bros are in Laguna Beach..... but their stuff is also made in Taiwan.


    I started with crank bros Candies, which eventually caused excessive pressure in the middle odf my foot. switched to Look and they offer better distribution.

  6. #56
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJeff View Post
    The company is a US company but they are made in Taiwan? yeah.
    But they're not!

    Speedplay is a brand of clipless bicycle pedal manufactured by Speedplay Inc. in San Diego, California
    I have heard that some spindles like the Chromoly ones are made in Taiwan but SS is in USA baby.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  7. #57
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    So why don't all track cyclists use Speedplays? Show me pics of the pedals that top track cyclists use.

  8. #58
    Live to ride ride to live Carbon Unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justkeepedaling View Post
    So why don't all track cyclists use Speedplays? Show me pics of the pedals that top track cyclists use.
    Not sure about track cyclist but since I ride road and not track, Speedplay is good for me.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justkeepedaling View Post
    So why don't all track cyclists use Speedplays? Show me pics of the pedals that top track cyclists use.
    Track cyclists don't normally use speedplay. Personally, I've seen two people unclip from speedplays on the track; one of which resulted in a rather bad crash. Turns out that free float is not really a good thing for bike control.

    I enjoy SPD-SLs when I am not track sprinting with slotted cleats and straps.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  10. #60
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    Had a debate with a friend yesterday and he borderline started to PMS(probably because he's confused by all the marketing BS). I wish I could help him understand that Speedplay is the best cleat/pedal system out there and that the competition is living in the stone age with systems that were derived from skii'ing. Instead I'm going to make this thread and later show him clear proof that the best pedal/cleat system is SPEEDPLAY.

    -Great idea in 1984...no doubt! cough: It's 2013 cough: :l ol:

    -Great idea, lets improve downhill snow skiing technology and make it easier to walk around in(you guys skii on your bikes right?)

    Fast forward now to modern civilization -> -> (warp mode engaged)

    -So what do we have here? Oh an American company producing the best quality pedal known to cycling mankind and it's designed specifically for Cyclist and not a derivative of Skii'ing? INSANITY!!!

    LOOK
    [img]http://www.rutlandcycling.com/productimages/fullsize/look_keo_2_max_white_pedals.JPG[/im g]

    SPD-SL


    Speedplay
    [img]http://www.wigglestatic.com/images/speedplay-zero-pedals-ti-zoom.jpg[/im g]

    [B][U]Now lets look at some cleats and this is where the insanity really kicks in. [/ U][/ B] :tw itchy:

    LOOK
    [img]http://fcdn.roadbikereview.com/attachments/general-cycling-discussion/154191d1233355082-cleat-wear-cleat-life-interrogatives-cleat.jpg[/i mg]

    [SIZE=5]GROSS!!!^^[/SI ZE]

    SPD-SL
    [img]http://www.bumsonbikes.com.au/bikes/images/C/501_cleats_worn_shimano_2.jpg[/i mg]

    [SIZE=6]Double GROSS!!! ^^[/S IZE]

    So what does this mean for your cycling efficiency? OUT THE DOOR! It means you will unclip when pulling up and potentially cause a crash(don't sprint kids). It can also mean that you are losing efficiency by jumping around on the pedals.

    And now to Speedplay! Keep in mind here that the only portion that engages the pedal is the center piece and it does not see contact with the road unless you decide to go to the beach and start jogging in your cycling shoes(For you special people).

    [img]http://roadcyclinguk.com/wp-content/uploads/old_images/news/images/speedplay_2_hi.jpg[/im g]
    [img]http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/speedplay0/new-vs-old-cleatlg.jpg[/i mg]

    [B]My god these guys are good!!![/]

    [B]American company with great QC and keen insight into cycling![/] [B]Perfection![/]

    [img]http://www.speedplay.com/newsimages/goldpedals.jpg[/im g]
    Your picture is of a pretty old design for SPD-SL. It's a better pedal now. Here's the modern:



    The SPD-SL is a very good pedal and doesn't have that annoying float to deal with.

    BTW, your OP is an excellent demonstration of the effect of subtle marketing. You demonstrate the competitors in bad light by showing designs that are a decade old (and way down from the top of the line as well), and you show the favored design with a whole constellation of duplicate products in various colors. The use of fake theatrics using fonts and smileys is also effective, if a little obvious. So, kudos. I have no idea of why you have your panties in a bunch over a debate you had with a friend we all don't know, but it's an interesting study in marketing. Just curious, how much did Speedplay pay for this little viral marketing scheme?
    Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 08-04-13 at 11:34 PM.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaultGuru View Post
    How about a different question of Speedplays v. the others? I have used Speedplays for more than 20 year, averaging maybe 4k/yr, and peaking at around 7k/yr. during double century training for the last several years. Needless to say, I love Speedplays. However, I have developed Neuropathy in the balls of my feet. No overweight or diabetic issues that are most common to cause Neuropathy. I have been through Neuro tests, scans, nerve biopsies, etc., and they all come back negative. My Podiatrist is a Cat 2 racer, so he knows cycling. He says that my Neuropathy is probably caused by lots of miles on Speedplays because of the pressure exerted in a small area (pressure = force*area), and suggested I switch to a larger platform pedal. He also casted my feet and I have custom orthotics in my shoes. I am riding the Sidi Genius 6.6 shoes to dissipate the pressure as much as possible. I have put several thousand miles on the Sidi's (mega wide) and orthotics. They have helped a lot, but, the balls of my feet are still numb all the time. Surgery is not an option and I may have to live with the nerve damage.
    I see my Podiatrist this week. If I have to, I will reluctantly part ways with Speedplay to lessen the neuropathy advancement, so I will be interested to read your recommendations for a larger pedal platform.
    I agree with decycle that your podiatrist does not understand how Speedplays work. I would recommend, if you haven't tried it already, to get the fore/aft plate and move your cleats to a more rearward position. Unless your knees will secede if you aren't in perfect KOPS, that will help take the pressure off of the ball of the foot and move it more towards the midfoot.

  12. #62
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Your picture is of a pretty old design for SPD-SL. It's a better pedal now. Here's the modern:



    The SPD-SL is a very good pedal and doesn't have that annoying float to deal with.

    BTW, your OP is an excellent demonstration of the effect of subtle marketing. You demonstrate the competitors in bad light by showing designs that are a decade old (and way down from the top of the line as well), and you show the favored design with a whole constellation of duplicate products in various colors. The use of fake theatrics using fonts and smileys is also effective, if a little obvious. So, kudos. I have no idea of why you have your panties in a bunch over a debate you had with a friend we all don't know, but it's an interesting study in marketing. Just curious, how much did Speedplay pay for this little viral marketing scheme?
    Neither does Speedplay Zero if you don't want it.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  13. #63
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep_sky View Post
    I agree with decycle that your podiatrist does not understand how Speedplays work. I would recommend, if you haven't tried it already, to get the fore/aft plate and move your cleats to a more rearward position. Unless your knees will secede if you aren't in perfect KOPS, that will help take the pressure off of the ball of the foot and move it more towards the midfoot.
    Yes, that's it, move the pressure point to a different part of the foot. That'll solve it!

    Seriously though, don't *** with your bike position just because your pedal is killing your foot. There are other pedals and other shoes. Don't be stubborn. I would suggest going to a stiffer shoe. The pedaling platform for speedplay is indeed pretty small, and a stiffer shoe will help distribute the force.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  14. #64
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
    Neither does Speedplay Zero if you don't want it.
    My statement was about SPD-SL; why are you bringing speedplay into this? I've never ridden speedplay before. They are indeed probably good pedals. Are they "superior". Likely not. That's my only point.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  15. #65
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
    Neither does Speedplay Zero if you don't want it.
    Also, if I didn't want float, why in the world would I use a pedal designed for float with the float disabled by a couple screws jammed into the mechanism?
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  16. #66
    Still can't climb
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    never mind the speedplay. the 2 similar systems of spd sl and look...why is it that different? the look users i know all say it is way better. how is it better than spd sl?
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  17. #67
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    One problem I've heard about speedplay is it tends to get a side-to-side tilt/wobble after a while. This simply doesn't happen on SPD-SL or LOOK style pedals.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  18. #68
    Still can't climb
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    why is it for pedals there aren't lots of other companies making spd-sl compatible pedals? how comes shimano hols onto this bike part better than others?
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  19. #69
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    never mind the speedplay. the 2 similar systems of spd sl and look...why is it that different? the look users i know all say it is way better. how is it better than spd sl?
    It's a good question. I changed to SPD-SL before the Keo because the old Delta LOOK pedals (my former pedal of choice) squeaked something mean. I have heard no good reason to switch back from SPD-SL to Keo. I've also heard the Keo pedal squeaks as well, so there's that too. The SPD-SL cleat is lower profile and locks into the pedal body better than the Keo, which is kind of a nice feature.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  20. #70
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    My statement was about SPD-SL; why are you bringing speedplay into this? I've never ridden speedplay before. They are indeed probably good pedals. Are they "superior". Likely not. That's my only point.
    It appeared that you were discussing SPD-SL's lack of float in contrast to Speedplay, and then there was this: "Track cyclists don't normally use speedplay. Personally, I've seen two people unclip from speedplays on the track; one of which resulted in a rather bad crash. Turns out that free float is not really a good thing for bike control."

    So it certainly bears pointing out that if float is a feature you don't want, it's optional with Zeros.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  21. #71
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Also, if I didn't want float, why in the world would I use a pedal designed for float with the float disabled by a couple screws jammed into the mechanism?
    There are other reasons why one might want to use Speedplays. Double sided entry being one of them.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  22. #72
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
    There are other reasons why one might want to use Speedplays. Double sided entry being one of them.
    I get that, though single sided has been kind of demonized by people unwilling to climb a little learning curve. The small, relatively unreliable bearings; the complicated cleat; and the "like ice" float reasons to tolerate the single sided pedals.

    The rides I care about only have me clipping in maybe once or twice an hour. I understand that for some people though, this is an overriding concern.
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  23. #73
    Still can't climb
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    i dont like one sided entry. i hate fiddling around with my foot at junctions.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

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  24. #74
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfspeed View Post
    It appeared that you were discussing SPD-SL's lack of float in contrast to Speedplay, and then there was this: "Track cyclists don't normally use speedplay. Personally, I've seen two people unclip from speedplays on the track; one of which resulted in a rather bad crash. Turns out that free float is not really a good thing for bike control."

    So it certainly bears pointing out that if float is a feature you don't want, it's optional with Zeros.
    I was talking about trackies and their preferences in pedals. Nobody's really looking for excuses to use Speedplays on the track. I am just saying that if you don't want float, you aren't going to use a pedal designed for float, regardless of fancy add-ons which allow you to adjust said float. SPD-SL is nice because there is just enough float to allow a little wiggle, but the release is very stiff, which means you aren't going to accidentally unclip when you bump someone.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    Yes, that's it, move the pressure point to a different part of the foot. That'll solve it!
    Since the problem is pressure on the balls of his feet, then yes, moving the pressure elsewhere might be valid alternative. What do you suggest, he HTFU?

    Seriously though, don't *** with your bike position just because your pedal is killing your foot. There are other pedals and other shoes. Don't be stubborn. I would suggest going to a stiffer shoe. The pedaling platform for speedplay is indeed pretty small, and a stiffer shoe will help distribute the force.
    First off, KOPS is not a holy grail, just a guideline. If I listened to people like you, I would be a cripple with ****ed up achilles tendons due to the cleat being too far forward. Secondly, the platform is as big as the cleat, which is roughly the same as look and spd-sl (I ran both of those for over a year each, so I know what their strengths and weaknesses are); I cannot vouch for other systems as I have not used them. Thirdly, while there are stiffer shoes out there, I would posit that Genius 6.6's are plenty stiff enough. In fact, it might be too stiff. I had to give up my s-works as they turned out to be too stiff for me so I went to a slightly less stiff shoe and while I am not completely out of the woods yet, my achilles are doing better.

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