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  1. #76
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    i dont like one sided entry. i hate fiddling around with my foot at junctions.
    Nobody really does. It is a consequence of a certain type of pedal design. You can fix this, but it comes with tradeoffs in other areas (undersized bearings, complicated cleat, etc.).
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  2. #77
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep_sky View Post
    Since the problem is pressure on the balls of his feet, then yes, moving the pressure elsewhere might be valid alternative. What do you suggest, he HTFU?

    First off, KOPS is not a holy grail, just a guideline. If I listened to people like you, I would be a cripple with ****ed up achilles tendons due to the cleat being too far forward. Secondly, the platform is as big as the cleat, which is roughly the same as look and spd-sl (I ran both of those for over a year each, so I know what their strengths and weaknesses are); I cannot vouch for other systems as I have not used them. Thirdly, while there are stiffer shoes out there, I would posit that Genius 6.6's are plenty stiff enough. In fact, it might be too stiff. I had to give up my s-works as they turned out to be too stiff for me so I went to a slightly less stiff shoe and while I am not completely out of the woods yet, my achilles are doing better.
    Calm down. I suggested some alternatives to altering his current bike position. I said nothing about KOPS.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  3. #78
    Still can't climb
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    the one sided problem woud be a lot less of a problem if the pedal can stay horizontal. why dos it have to hang butt end down?
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

  4. #79
    Senior Member Brian Ratliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    the one sided problem would be a lot less of a problem if the pedal can stay horizontal. why dos it have to hang butt end down?
    This is actually what makes single sided doable. You hook the front of the pedal with the cleat as you move your foot forward and step into it. As I said before, there is a bit of a learning curve, but once climbed, it's not really much of a problem.
    Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
    "If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter

  5. #80
    Senior Member halfspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    I get that, though single sided has been kind of demonized by people unwilling to climb a little learning curve. The small, relatively unreliable bearings; the complicated cleat; and the "like ice" float reasons to tolerate the single sided pedals.

    The rides I care about only have me clipping in maybe once or twice an hour. I understand that for some people though, this is an overriding concern.
    I put about 4000 miles on Keos and, to me, the single sided entry seemed a ridiculously antiquated way to design a pedal and a real liability getting a start in a crit. But that's just me.

    IME, your concerns about the bearings and complexity of the cleat are overstated. I've got thousands (over ten thousand on one pair) of miles on Zeros with the original bearings. And the "complexity" of Speedplay's cleat doesn't look so scary when you realize that it's just the spring part which other systems put in the pedal. For me, they're much more durable than the plastic Keo cleats they replaced.
    Telemachus has, indeed, sneezed.

  6. #81
    Still can't climb
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    ohhhhh..i've been doing it wrong all these years.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    The next major development in clipless pedals was Shimano's SPD (Shimano Pedaling Dynamics) pedal system. Whereas Look cleats are large and protrude from the sole of the shoe, SPD cleats are small and could be fitted in a recess in the sole, making it possible for walking[/COLOR]
    -Great idea, lets improve downhill snow skiing technology and make it easier to walk around in(you guys skii on your bikes right?)
    Originally Posted by Shimagnolo
    So the original post has text about the SPD *mtn* system, but then shows pics of the SPD-SL *road* system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    I make no mention of SPD mountain system. I am strictly speaking of road pedals. See pics again for skii cleats.
    Obvious reference above applies to SPD mountain bike cleats which are recessed. Not Road SPD-SL. OP may be the most obnoxious bikeforum poster I've come across or a great troll.

  8. #83
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    I use Look pedals and made my choice because my LBS sold them. They work fine and single sided entry just has never bothered me. With the butt end sitting lower, I just cram my foot into the front of the pedal and push down and I'm clipped in.

    If I was going to change pedal systems, I would probably go with Dura Ace pedals as I have never heard anything bad about them, they look cool and they apparently do what pedals should do. But to do that, something needs to happen to my Looks and that just hasn't happened yet in over 4 years.
    "Rivendells do not rock; they jamboree."
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."

  9. #84
    Senior Member danvuquoc's Avatar
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    Speedplay cleats require too much damn maintenance to keep them quiet, and I've also had 2 sets of cleats fail on me.
    PedalRoom http://www.pedalroom.com/member/danvuquoc

  10. #85
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    Speedplay likes to harass people with baseless lawsuits:

    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...4fe48bbd8c191b

    IMO, they are despicable and will never get my $$$.
    I don't even use the offensive term "Fred." -- Sheldon "All Cyclists Are My Friends" Brown (1944-2008)

  11. #86
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    One sided pedal entry. Not hard... But I guess I have tons of practice getting into pedals with clips.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    (don't sprint kids).
    Unless you are Mark Cavendish... who doesn't use Speedplays.

    I use Look pedals, and have considered changing over to speedplay many times. I think they make the most compelling case for pedals (although I haven't tried them). I have a feeling I will eventually switch.

    However, I wish I had the time back for reading this thread. Many valid points, but most of it gets lost in the typical DB ridiculousness that is BF.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by willawingwong View Post
    ... OP may be the most obnoxious bikeforum poster I've come across or a great troll.
    You must be new here.

  14. #89
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    Speedplay's have the largest platform area, but its really a bit misleading. The area is concentrated in a single circular spot. The same area distributed across a large platform would offer more stability and better distribution through a stiff shoe. The 2nd moment of the contact area is also a very important parameter, and Speedplay is basically the worst by that measurement since its center concentrated.

    Consider the following. Cut the Speedplay contact area in half by removing a checkboard pattern on the platform. You'd probably never notice, simply because a stiff shoe will distribute the force easily. The peak force would only go up by a small fraction. I'm sure you could prove it with an FEA analysis.

    I don't want to come off as bashing Speedplay here. Their pedals are very nice, lightweight and function well. By I find their marketing of contact area highly misleading.

  15. #90
    Senior Member VaultGuru's Avatar
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    Thanks Brian and deep_cycle. Will take the shoes in when I see my Podiatrist. Yes, the cleats are all the way back.
    Stiff shoe - According to Sidi, the 6.6 shoes only deflect 1.4 mm on their rigidity test, in which a 50 kg (110 lb) weight is suspended from one end of the sole. That is the stiffiest shoe, in wide, that I could find. The combination of the stiff sole and the orthotic has really helped. There is a the slight ridge built into the orthotic, just behind the ball of the foot that helps the ball of foot relax.
    Last edited by VaultGuru; 08-05-13 at 12:02 PM.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoj View Post
    Speedplay likes to harass people with baseless lawsuits:

    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...4fe48bbd8c191b

    IMO, they are despicable and will never get my $$$.
    I'm not ready to say "never", but after reading that link, that's a huge knock against them in my book.
    Every time that wheel turn 'round,
    Bound to cover just a little more ground!

  17. #92
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    Shall we now discuss safety? I like to be safe and efficient on my bike. When it comes to cornering, nothing beats stack height and clearance!

    I will compare the Ti versions because otherwise it gets a little confusing and people get hissy fits over the facts(facts don't lie kids)

    Speedplay Zero Ti
    Weight(pair): 164g
    Engagement: Double Sided
    Zero Float Lockout: YES
    Stack Height on 4 hole mount: 11.5 mm
    Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 8.5 mm
    Float range: 15 degrees

    LOOK Keo TI
    Weight(pair): 193g
    Engagement: Single Sided
    Zero Float Lockout: Yes but have to get different cleats
    Stack Height on 4 hole mount: NOPE, only 3 hole mounting!
    Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 17.1mm
    Float range: 10 degrees

    SPD-SL
    Weight(pair): 279g
    Engagement: Single Sided
    Zero Float Lockout: Yes but have to get different cleats
    Stack Height on 4 hole mount: YES
    Stack Height on 3 hole mount: 13.7mm
    Float range: 6 degrees

    So what have we learned from raw data above? Oh that's right! LOOK has epic stack height. SPD-SL has even higher stack height and extreme weight.

    Have fun cornering in criteriums with terrible pedal clearance on LOOK + SPD-SL! Don't descend down switchbacks too fast either!


    Good lord.
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-05-13 at 12:35 PM.
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  18. #93
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    This is actually what makes single sided doable. You hook the front of the pedal with the cleat as you move your foot forward and step into it. As I said before, there is a bit of a learning curve, but once climbed, it's not really much of a problem.
    I knew this thread was going to be spectacular. LOL...

    Maybe a one sided pedal is simply too much for some. Could be why Speedplay was invented.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  19. #94
    Senior Member jdon's Avatar
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    This one's for you Trollvoleg..


  20. #95
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    So in this thread we learn that people anecdotally say things like "the shop tells me they get a lot of returns" and "i have friends who ride a lot and they go through 2-3 cleats a year".

    No facts were delivered on said day. Instead they continue to ride cleats designed for skiis.
    Why I have never skiied on my bike. I'll have to try that sometime.

    When Hinault was testing these pedals before they went into production (Looks) was he skiing too? I'll have to go "LOOk" for those pictures.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  21. #96
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdon View Post
    This one's for you Trollvoleg..

    Isn't trolling a violation of the terms of agreement for posting here?

    Just askin'...
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Agree with you here...every point you make.
    I just don't see how a modern pedal is going to contact the ground before the shoe does. It just doesn't seem like an issue if you remember how to ride a bike properly and don't pedal into crazy tight turns.
    Your training wheels prevent that. I have hits on Speedplays one @ 27 MPH. Launched the rear for ~ 30' and recovered in a slide.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    You must be new here.
    Lol, meaning OP is well known already for this? I'm not exactly new but I don't frequent the forums very often to know poster tendencies.

  24. #99
    Live to ride ride to live Carbon Unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
    My statement was about SPD-SL; why are you bringing speedplay into this? I've never ridden speedplay before. They are indeed probably good pedals. Are they "superior". Likely not. That's my only point.
    I don't think anything is superior to anything else in cycling. I think pedals are a personal choice like saddles. Ride what you like. It is great to have the choice.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaultGuru View Post
    Thanks Brian and deep_cycle. Will take the shoes in when I see my Podiatrist. Yes, the cleats are all the way back.
    Stiff shoe - According to Sidi, the 6.6 shoes only deflect 1.4 mm on their rigidity test, in which a 50 kg (110 lb) weight is suspended from one end of the sole. That is the stiffiest shoe, in wide, that I could find. The combination of the stiff sole and the orthotic has really helped. There is a the slight ridge built into the orthotic, just behind the ball of the foot that helps the ball of foot relax.
    For what it's worth I have peroneal neuropathy, which is on the peroneal nerve that travels around the side of the knee and down to the foot. In talking with my neurologist he said neuropathy can stem from hundreds of causes. I wish I could remember how he phrased it, I know I'll get jumped all over for saying it wrong, but it was something along the lines that neuropathy describes symptoms more than a cause/condition. I found a document showing what potential causes are and they spanned the gamut from rapid weight loss, lipoma, sprained ankles, genetics, B12 deficiency, crossing legs too much, etc. My neurologist also said that unscientifically he's observed it more in people of Scandinavian descent. It's a hard condition to really say it comes form one thing.

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