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  1. #76
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Finally, the "last word argument" is inherently argumentative. By asserting I have to have the last word, you create a catch 22; you can say whatever you want, and I have to leave it unrebutted, or I'm gulity of having to have the last word. Thus by raising the isssue, you yourself are angling to have " the last word."
    You have just proved my point...enjoy your Chinese bike.
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

  2. #77
    Senior Member Peiper1's Avatar
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    "1200 grams for a CF frame these days is a boat anchor. I stand by my opinion that I don't get $5900 for dated technology for a heavy frame."

    I fully expect that my new C59 will weight at least 1 lb. more than my Madone 5.2, but who cares? What's important here is that it's a Colnago. I guess I'll have a good dilemma come next year, ride a really great bike one day (Madone 5.2), then ride an even greater bike the next day (C59).


    "Thus the case for the C59 appears to come down to things like name, looks, italian heritage."

    You are 100% correct. Same rationale applies to Ferraris. Or do you really believe people buy those because they are great value? The thing is, I fully expect that I will never come even close to getting the maximum out of the Colnago's capabilities, but I will look and feel might good on it .... and my wife will look even better on hers .
    2012 Trek Madone 5.2
    2012 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4 Rival (my lovely wife's ride)

  3. #78
    Senior Member Peiper1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    You have just proved my point...enjoy your Chinese bike.
    Awesome .... +1
    2012 Trek Madone 5.2
    2012 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4 Rival (my lovely wife's ride)

  4. #79
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    I am not going to get into whether C59s are excellent bikes or not. I believe they are. Merlin does raise an important point though. And that is the fact that Colnagos are not getting light as quickly as some of the competition. 1200 grams today is quite heavy for a carbon frame. I have a LeMond monocoque carbon frame from 2007 that is 970 grams on the money for a size 55.

    I suspect that a lot of modern Colnago buyers are not primarily after performance. The heritage, name etc seems to be the jump-off point, even if subconsciously.
    Regards,

    Jed

  5. #80
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    I could have bought any bike that I wanted in the same price range as my C59. I chose the C59 after carefully researching the pros and cons of other bike brands. After careful consideration (you don't plop $10K plus on a bike on a whim unless you have Oprah money) I chose the Colnago C59 because it offers the best combination of performance, quality, aesthetics, value (yes Value, compare the prices of used Colnago bikes to the prices of other brands) and fun to ride factor.

    To write, as Jed wrote, that a lot of modern Colnago buyers are not into performance and buy Colnagos primarily because of the cache of the Colnago name and tradition, is insulting, demeaning, uninformed...and just plain stupid.

    Now, I am off to ride my cache-laden, heritage rich, name-recognition C59. May others ride what they want...you just can't wipe the GRIN on my face every time I mount my C59.

    Ciao baby!
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peiper1 View Post
    "1200 grams for a CF frame these days is a boat anchor. I stand by my opinion that I don't get $5900 for dated technology for a heavy frame."

    I fully expect that my new C59 will weight at least 1 lb. more than my Madone 5.2, but who cares? What's important here is that it's a Colnago. I guess I'll have a good dilemma come next year, ride a really great bike one day (Madone 5.2), then ride an even greater bike the next day (C59).


    "Thus the case for the C59 appears to come down to things like name, looks, italian heritage."

    You are 100% correct. Same rationale applies to Ferraris. Or do you really believe people buy those because they are great value? The thing is, I fully expect that I will never come even close to getting the maximum out of the Colnago's capabilities, but I will look and feel might good on it .... and my wife will look even better on hers .
    This is a very objective and honest assessment. There's nothing wrong about making a buying decision on name and heritage. Most of the Colnago owners I know have one today because they are the bike they dreamed of years ago when they didn't have the money.
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  7. #82
    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    I test rode the Colnago before I settled on a Parlee. It rode like it was on rails, the most solid I've ever felt, and I didn't notice the extra weight.
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

    "I understand. I just don't care"

  8. #83
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    I could have bought any bike that I wanted in the same price range as my C59. I chose the C59 after carefully researching the pros and cons of other bike brands. After careful consideration (you don't plop $10K plus on a bike on a whim unless you have Oprah money) I chose the Colnago C59 because it offers the best combination of performance, quality, aesthetics, value (yes Value, compare the prices of used Colnago bikes to the prices of other brands) and fun to ride factor.

    To write, as Jed wrote, that a lot of modern Colnago buyers are not into performance and buy Colnagos primarily because of the cache of the Colnago name and tradition, is insulting, demeaning, uninformed...and just plain stupid.

    Now, I am off to ride my cache-laden, heritage rich, name-recognition C59. May others ride what they want...you just can't wipe the GRIN on my face every time I mount my C59.

    Ciao baby!
    Colnagos are fabulous bikes. My riding buddy just bought a C40 recently. I test-rode it, and one thing that jumped straight at me was the 'solid and stable' feel. Yes, they do hold their value. And I don't mean to imply that you, as a rider, is not into performance. An important point made by StanSeven is the fact that people like me lusted after Italian name steel bikes as college students, but when we could finally afford them, technology had moved on (carbon frames, specifically).

    Colnago does have the cachet and the pedigree, though.
    Regards,

    Jed

  9. #84
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Cachet...I hate it when the iPad's auto-spell changes my words. TWICE EVEN!
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

  10. #85
    Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care fauxto nick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    I am not going to get into whether C59s are excellent bikes or not. I believe they are. Merlin does raise an important point though. And that is the fact that Colnagos are not getting light as quickly as some of the competition. 1200 grams today is quite heavy for a carbon frame. I have a LeMond monocoque carbon frame from 2007 that is 970 grams on the money for a size 55.

    I suspect that a lot of modern Colnago buyers are not primarily after performance. The heritage, name etc seems to be the jump-off point, even if subconsciously.
    Are you sure a c59 weighs in at 1100 for the frameset?!?!? I've seen plenty of Sub 15.5 lb C59's easy. My CAAD10 frameset weighs in at 1150 for a 54. Doesn't make sense. I know it's like than the Dogma and that frame is sub 1000.

  11. #86
    Senior Member
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    1200g is the weight most everywhere I've seen including what lots of owners say. 1206 is what Excel includes in their catalog as well.

    The Dogma is no where near that light. Pinarello claims 920g for a "raw" frame. Add paint and seat post clamp and it's closer to 1100g. Dogmas also have a heavy fork and seat post and the overall bike is heavy. I looked at both these when I considered my last buy.
    Last edited by StanSeven; 08-10-13 at 09:32 PM.
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  12. #87
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    The Pope's bike...

    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

  13. #88
    Midwest Ullrich
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    [QUOTE=eja_ bottecchia;15969174]The Pope's bike...

    What a proud achievement as a bicycle builder! Any follow-up photo(s) showing the Pope riding the bike?

  14. #89
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Midwest Ullrich;15969798]
    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    The Pope's bike...

    What a proud achievement as a bicycle builder! Any follow-up photo(s) showing the Pope riding the bike?
    I have not seen one with the Pope in full Papal kit riding a Colnago....but that would be sooooooooo cool.
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

  15. #90
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    I can't believe weight is even a discussion here. Both the C59 and the Dogma can be 15lb bikes with the right equipment. The tour pros don't appear to struggle too much on their Dogmas or C59s... you won't either.

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