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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    BS.

    Everybody who buys a power meter is going to consider the prospect of switching it between bikes and switching wheels on their bikes. Switching wheels may not be the concern that wins out for everyone, there are absolutely other advantages and disadvantages to consider. But even people who have good reason to go with a PT are going to think about it. That's why many end up with two PTs.

    Take your own example. Those guys might do well with a pedal based system instead of PTs. With PTs they may want 3 or more. A race wheel for each bike and at least one training wheel.
    Hmmm. Do you dispute that a cheap wheel cover has most of the aero benefit of a disk? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, the marginal weight doesn't matter? Do you dispute that for some riders a 10 or 15 mm difference in crank length on a TT bike can help you attain a savings in measured CdA of ~.02 m^2, while the benefit of a rear disk over a wheel cover is less than that? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, what matters is watts/CdA? Do you dispute that some of us have limited budgets and bought our TT bikes after the decision to buy a power meter? Which of these is BS? And, most importantly, those guys may have considered a pedal-based system but *there was no pedal-based system available* at the time they bought their PMs. Do you dispute that, too? Cuz I'm thinking that you calling BS is, um, not a rational claim well-supported by the data.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RChung View Post
    Hmmm. Do you dispute that a cheap wheel cover has most of the aero benefit of a disk? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, the marginal weight doesn't matter? Do you dispute that for some riders a 10 or 15 mm difference in crank length on a TT bike can help you attain a savings in measured CdA of ~.02 m^2, while the benefit of a rear disk over a wheel cover is less than that? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, what matters is watts/CdA? Do you dispute that some of us have limited budgets and bought our TT bikes after the decision to buy a power meter? Which of these is BS? And, most importantly, those guys may have considered a pedal-based system but *there was no pedal-based system available* at the time they bought their PMs. Do you dispute that, too? Cuz I'm thinking that you calling BS is, um, not a rational claim well-supported by the data.
    I don't dispute any of what you say. But none of it changes anything and frankly is a stupid argument that misses the point.

    Being able to freely change wheels is and always will be a serious advantage of non-wheel based power meters.

    Overwhelming in all situations? No. Look back, I haven't said anything of the sort. All I've been saying is that it is an advantage. And since the majority of power users will at some point want to swap wheels around, I think it is fair to call it a serious one.

    Wait, I do dispute something: whether a pedal system was available or not when somebody bought their PT doesn't preclude the pedal system from having certain advantages. Likewise for said pedal system being out of someone's budget. It still can have certain advantages.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    Also how in the hell do they expect you to torque the pedals down to 25n*m? I'm not aware of any widely available torque wrench that works as an actual wrench without a socket(you wont get a socket on the pedals).
    Not a problem with the right tools.


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Being able to freely change wheels is and always will be a serious advantage of non-wheel based power meters.

    Overwhelming in all situations? No. Look back, I haven't said anything of the sort. All I've been saying is that it is an advantage.
    Ah, so in one sentence you say it's a serious advantage but then in the next you say you haven't said anything of the sort. And this is your best defense? Hmmm. Well, alrighty then. Excuse me while I back out of the room.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RChung View Post
    Ah, so in one sentence you say it's a serious advantage but then in the next you say you haven't said anything of the sort. And this is your best defense? Hmmm. Well, alrighty then. Excuse me while I back out of the room.
    Last try here for me. Yes, it is a serious advantage. Does that mean everyone who still gets (or got) a PT is wrong? No. I like mine.

    It's price is a serious advantage over the other proven systems. Does that mean everyone who bought a SRM was wrong? No. There are other serious advantages to that system as well.

    Your arguments only make sense if one of us is saying that either the PT or all the non-wheel based PMs have ALL the advantages. I'm not and have never said that. Are you?

  6. #56
    Senior Member PRus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Not a problem with the right tools.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #57
    Pretty rigid member BykOfALesserGod's Avatar
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    So you take em off for races much like some people take off training wheels and slap on race sets for races.
    IFCJ

  8. #58
    Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care fauxto nick's Avatar
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    Sitting here with a pair in my lap, have to say, very very nice.

  9. #59
    Seņor Blues on the path's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fauxto nick View Post
    Sitting here with a pair in my lap..
    Give us a review after you've had them in use for a while..
    IMO, FWIW, CFM, YMMV, E PLURIBUS UNUM

  10. #60
    Senior Member Silvercivic27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fauxto nick View Post
    Sitting here with a pair in my lap, have to say, very very nice.
    I hope you're talking about garmin pedals!

  11. #61
    Pretty rigid member BykOfALesserGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    At $1700 its WAY Overpriced.

    I really don't like how this locks you into the LOOK based pedal system. It's not like locking you into a crankset is a big freaking deal, especially with the newer Quarqs that will automatically recalibrate to different chainrings.

    Swapping pedals is a 5minute job too but for some reason people think that swapping a crank is rocket science(lol).

    $1700 is overpriced for beta testing.
    Quarq locks you into Shimano and SRAM systems. I'm pretty sure many people will agree that a $1000+ crank is overpriced as well.
    IFCJ

  12. #62
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    I think Garmin's going to face some uber-stiff competition from the Stages ($800) powermeter given their $1700 price point. Sure, it's probably similar to Quarq in price, but still very, very pricey. Ive been very happy with my powertap wheel that was about half that.

  13. #63
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BykOfALesserGod View Post
    Quarq locks you into Shimano and SRAM systems. I'm pretty sure many people will agree that a $1000+ crank is overpriced as well.

    campangolo is for is for old people....there i said it

  14. #64
    Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care fauxto nick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by on the path View Post
    Give us a review after you've had them in use for a while..
    Unfortunately I'm selling them, not riding em.' Initial look was very nice!

  15. #65
    Pretty rigid member BykOfALesserGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by save10 View Post
    campangolo is for is for old people....there i said it
    Shimano and SRAM are marketed to the same "me too" people who buy into pop phenoms like Justin Bieber.
    IFCJ

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BykOfALesserGod View Post
    Quarq locks you into Shimano and SRAM systems. I'm pretty sure many people will agree that a $1000+ crank is overpriced as well.
    Is a $1000 crank anymore overpriced than $1700 pedals or a $800 hub?

    And is ther any reason you can't use a quarq 22 with Campy?

  17. #67
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    Also how in the hell do they expect you to torque the pedals down to 25n*m? I'm not aware of any widely available torque wrench that works as an actual wrench without a socket(you wont get a socket on the pedals).
    For pedals with a hex socket on the end of the spindle (not Vector pedals!) I use a normal torque wrench. For pedals with flats (Vector), you can use either a crow's foot adapter or a fish scale pulling on a pedal wrench.

    http://www.engineersedge.com/manufac...e_wrench_1.htm

  18. #68
    In the Pain Cave thechemist's Avatar
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    Campy and quarq work fine together. Quarq just doesn't have a campy crank

  19. #69
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post

    And is ther any reason you can't use a quarq 22 with Campy?
    Cant do it because it wont all match and be pretty.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by save10 View Post
    Cant do it because it wont all match and be pretty.
    I really don't find any modern group to pretty. It all looks cheesy and over-styled to me. Maybe if you have Athena in all silver. I could understand not wanting to mess that up.

  21. #71
    Arrogant Roadie Punk save10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    I really don't find any modern group to pretty. It all looks cheesy and over-styled to me. Maybe if you have Athena in all silver. I could understand not wanting to mess that up.
    sorry my sarcasm doesnt translate well in written form. its just that guy located in the 951 is being a total campy-snob and its kinda funny. And i'm think you right about being able use a quarq with campy

  22. #72
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    Campy and quarq work fine together. Quarq just doesn't have a campy crank
    exactly. The only "issue" you will have is that your cranks will say "SRAM".

    Stop the presses!! We can't have it say SRAM on our beautiful geezer Campangolo bike!!!
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

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