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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 08-09-13, 08:15 PM   #51
RChung
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BS.

Everybody who buys a power meter is going to consider the prospect of switching it between bikes and switching wheels on their bikes. Switching wheels may not be the concern that wins out for everyone, there are absolutely other advantages and disadvantages to consider. But even people who have good reason to go with a PT are going to think about it. That's why many end up with two PTs.

Take your own example. Those guys might do well with a pedal based system instead of PTs. With PTs they may want 3 or more. A race wheel for each bike and at least one training wheel.
Hmmm. Do you dispute that a cheap wheel cover has most of the aero benefit of a disk? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, the marginal weight doesn't matter? Do you dispute that for some riders a 10 or 15 mm difference in crank length on a TT bike can help you attain a savings in measured CdA of ~.02 m^2, while the benefit of a rear disk over a wheel cover is less than that? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, what matters is watts/CdA? Do you dispute that some of us have limited budgets and bought our TT bikes after the decision to buy a power meter? Which of these is BS? And, most importantly, those guys may have considered a pedal-based system but *there was no pedal-based system available* at the time they bought their PMs. Do you dispute that, too? Cuz I'm thinking that you calling BS is, um, not a rational claim well-supported by the data.
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Old 08-09-13, 09:09 PM   #52
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Hmmm. Do you dispute that a cheap wheel cover has most of the aero benefit of a disk? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, the marginal weight doesn't matter? Do you dispute that for some riders a 10 or 15 mm difference in crank length on a TT bike can help you attain a savings in measured CdA of ~.02 m^2, while the benefit of a rear disk over a wheel cover is less than that? Do you dispute that on most TT courses, what matters is watts/CdA? Do you dispute that some of us have limited budgets and bought our TT bikes after the decision to buy a power meter? Which of these is BS? And, most importantly, those guys may have considered a pedal-based system but *there was no pedal-based system available* at the time they bought their PMs. Do you dispute that, too? Cuz I'm thinking that you calling BS is, um, not a rational claim well-supported by the data.
I don't dispute any of what you say. But none of it changes anything and frankly is a stupid argument that misses the point.

Being able to freely change wheels is and always will be a serious advantage of non-wheel based power meters.

Overwhelming in all situations? No. Look back, I haven't said anything of the sort. All I've been saying is that it is an advantage. And since the majority of power users will at some point want to swap wheels around, I think it is fair to call it a serious one.

Wait, I do dispute something: whether a pedal system was available or not when somebody bought their PT doesn't preclude the pedal system from having certain advantages. Likewise for said pedal system being out of someone's budget. It still can have certain advantages.
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Old 08-09-13, 09:42 PM   #53
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Also how in the hell do they expect you to torque the pedals down to 25n*m? I'm not aware of any widely available torque wrench that works as an actual wrench without a socket(you wont get a socket on the pedals).
Not a problem with the right tools.

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Old 08-09-13, 10:38 PM   #54
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Being able to freely change wheels is and always will be a serious advantage of non-wheel based power meters.

Overwhelming in all situations? No. Look back, I haven't said anything of the sort. All I've been saying is that it is an advantage.
Ah, so in one sentence you say it's a serious advantage but then in the next you say you haven't said anything of the sort. And this is your best defense? Hmmm. Well, alrighty then. Excuse me while I back out of the room.
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Old 08-10-13, 03:04 AM   #55
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Ah, so in one sentence you say it's a serious advantage but then in the next you say you haven't said anything of the sort. And this is your best defense? Hmmm. Well, alrighty then. Excuse me while I back out of the room.
Last try here for me. Yes, it is a serious advantage. Does that mean everyone who still gets (or got) a PT is wrong? No. I like mine.

It's price is a serious advantage over the other proven systems. Does that mean everyone who bought a SRM was wrong? No. There are other serious advantages to that system as well.

Your arguments only make sense if one of us is saying that either the PT or all the non-wheel based PMs have ALL the advantages. I'm not and have never said that. Are you?
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Old 08-10-13, 04:28 AM   #56
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Not a problem with the right tools.

!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-10-13, 09:27 AM   #57
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So you take em off for races much like some people take off training wheels and slap on race sets for races.
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Old 08-10-13, 11:56 AM   #58
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Sitting here with a pair in my lap, have to say, very very nice.
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Old 08-10-13, 01:21 PM   #59
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Sitting here with a pair in my lap..
Give us a review after you've had them in use for a while..
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Old 08-10-13, 01:23 PM   #60
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Sitting here with a pair in my lap, have to say, very very nice.
I hope you're talking about garmin pedals!
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Old 08-10-13, 03:25 PM   #61
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At $1700 its WAY Overpriced.

I really don't like how this locks you into the LOOK based pedal system. It's not like locking you into a crankset is a big freaking deal, especially with the newer Quarqs that will automatically recalibrate to different chainrings.

Swapping pedals is a 5minute job too but for some reason people think that swapping a crank is rocket science(lol).

$1700 is overpriced for beta testing.
Quarq locks you into Shimano and SRAM systems. I'm pretty sure many people will agree that a $1000+ crank is overpriced as well.
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Old 08-10-13, 03:28 PM   #62
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I think Garmin's going to face some uber-stiff competition from the Stages ($800) powermeter given their $1700 price point. Sure, it's probably similar to Quarq in price, but still very, very pricey. Ive been very happy with my powertap wheel that was about half that.
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Old 08-10-13, 04:26 PM   #63
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Quarq locks you into Shimano and SRAM systems. I'm pretty sure many people will agree that a $1000+ crank is overpriced as well.

campangolo is for is for old people....there i said it
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Old 08-10-13, 05:32 PM   #64
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Give us a review after you've had them in use for a while..
Unfortunately I'm selling them, not riding em.' Initial look was very nice!
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Old 08-10-13, 10:17 PM   #65
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campangolo is for is for old people....there i said it
Shimano and SRAM are marketed to the same "me too" people who buy into pop phenoms like Justin Bieber.
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Old 08-11-13, 06:55 AM   #66
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Quarq locks you into Shimano and SRAM systems. I'm pretty sure many people will agree that a $1000+ crank is overpriced as well.
Is a $1000 crank anymore overpriced than $1700 pedals or a $800 hub?

And is ther any reason you can't use a quarq 22 with Campy?
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Old 08-11-13, 07:20 AM   #67
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Also how in the hell do they expect you to torque the pedals down to 25n*m? I'm not aware of any widely available torque wrench that works as an actual wrench without a socket(you wont get a socket on the pedals).
For pedals with a hex socket on the end of the spindle (not Vector pedals!) I use a normal torque wrench. For pedals with flats (Vector), you can use either a crow's foot adapter or a fish scale pulling on a pedal wrench.

http://www.engineersedge.com/manufac...e_wrench_1.htm
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Old 08-11-13, 07:23 AM   #68
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Campy and quarq work fine together. Quarq just doesn't have a campy crank
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Old 08-11-13, 03:57 PM   #69
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And is ther any reason you can't use a quarq 22 with Campy?
Cant do it because it wont all match and be pretty.
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Old 08-11-13, 04:07 PM   #70
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Cant do it because it wont all match and be pretty.
I really don't find any modern group to pretty. It all looks cheesy and over-styled to me. Maybe if you have Athena in all silver. I could understand not wanting to mess that up.
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Old 08-11-13, 04:28 PM   #71
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I really don't find any modern group to pretty. It all looks cheesy and over-styled to me. Maybe if you have Athena in all silver. I could understand not wanting to mess that up.
sorry my sarcasm doesnt translate well in written form. its just that guy located in the 951 is being a total campy-snob and its kinda funny. And i'm think you right about being able use a quarq with campy
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Old 08-12-13, 07:55 AM   #72
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Campy and quarq work fine together. Quarq just doesn't have a campy crank
exactly. The only "issue" you will have is that your cranks will say "SRAM".

Stop the presses!! We can't have it say SRAM on our beautiful geezer Campangolo bike!!!
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