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    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Bikehubstore hubs. Any gripes?

    I'm thinking about building a set of budget training wheels using some BHS hubs. Has anyone here had any problems with them?

    I plan on using the SL210 rear hub, and weigh about 170lbs.
    Last edited by BoSoxYacht; 08-11-13 at 11:28 PM.

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    Senior Member MajorMantra's Avatar
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    I wouldn't choose them for an all weather bike as like most lightweight hubs they have small bearings and fairly basic seals. That said, they are well made and for the money you'll be hard pressed to find something lighter, at least if you want a warranty.

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    No gripes, just a few recommendations. The rear is heavily dished so NDS laced radially, heads out, helps to offset the side-to-side tension differential a little bit. Even better is to use to 16:8 drilling option which does a very good job of balancing the side-to-side tension with NDS laced radially. Another approach to this would be to use Velocity's offset rear rim. Don't skimp on the DS spoke tension. You need the DS spokes to be tight to get reasonable tension in the NDS. I would recommend 120 kgf on the DS.

  4. #4
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorMantra View Post
    I wouldn't choose them for an all weather bike as like most lightweight hubs they have small bearings and fairly basic seals. That said, they are well made and for the money you'll be hard pressed to find something lighter, at least if you want a warranty.
    Thanks for your input.

    Here in NW Phoenix, bearing seals aren't a major concern.

  5. #5
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    No gripes, just a few recommendations. The rear is heavily dished so NDS laced radially, heads out, helps to offset the side-to-side tension differential a little bit. Even better is to use to 16:8 drilling option which does a very good job of balancing the side-to-side tension with NDS laced radially. Another approach to this would be to use Velocity's offset rear rim. Don't skimp on the DS spoke tension. You need the DS spokes to be tight to get reasonable tension in the NDS. I would recommend 120 kgf on the DS.
    I have seen other reviews that say the same thing, but after comparing the geometry to the hubs I'm using now, these will be an improvement.

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    I've built a few sets with them and basically agree with everything said above. But for a few more dollars I prefer the Novatec rears from bdopcycling.com. You can get the anti-bite guard on the freehub and I like the wider flange spacing (even on the campy and 11sp versions). Obviously you need to be ok with black. For the front I've been using the bikehubstore "wide" model with good results.

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    canam73, just checking, when you say wider flange spacing, do you mean further outboard on the DS which would relieve a little of the imbalance in side-to-side spoke tension? One would hardly want it wider on the NDS.

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    Just had a very reputable local wheelbuilder build some Archetypes with these hubs and Sapim Lasers. Used 24R front and 28-2X(nds and ds) and I'm 165ish. He said he was very impressed with the quality and geometry of the hubs. Mentioned it was one of the best he has seen from unbranded Taiwanese hubs.
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  9. #9
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    canam73, just checking, when you say wider flange spacing, do you mean further outboard on the DS which would relieve a little of the imbalance in side-to-side spoke tension? One would hardly want it wider on the NDS.
    That is what he is saying. Novatech hubs have a 1.9mm more DS offset.

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    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    So with a 16:8 rear wheel, one typically does 2x on the drive side and radial on the non-drive side? If you look at my signature, my weight is too high to consider such wheels, I'm just curious as to how they're usually set up as I've heard several people tout the benefits (for lighter riders) of being able to get DS and NDS spoke tension near the same.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    So with a 16:8 rear wheel, one typically does 2x on the drive side and radial on the non-drive side? If you look at my signature, my weight is too high to consider such wheels, I'm just curious as to how they're usually set up as I've heard several people tout the benefits (for lighter riders) of being able to get DS and NDS spoke tension near the same.
    Yes, that's right. I wouldn't propose to suggest any design wheels for anyone except myself. But I will say that it is more about the total spoke count than the distribution side-to-side. If you can do 24 spokes as 12:12, you can likely do them as 16:8. The one downside is that you are "squandering" a good bit of the stiffness that accrues from the wide NDS flange spacing by reducing the number of those spokes. The greater number of DS spokes (narrow flange spacing) can't make up for that. I really value the even spoke tension, and am willing to make that compromise. Over the years I have accomplished this other ways with other hubs designs such as using offset rims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    canam73, just checking, when you say wider flange spacing, do you mean further outboard on the DS which would relieve a little of the imbalance in side-to-side spoke tension? One would hardly want it wider on the NDS.
    Yes, as BoSoxYacht said.

    I like that the Novatecs use separate set ups for 10sp, 11sp Shimano and Campy to maximize the DS spacing for each whereas the Bitex is set up with the same spacing which has to cater to the narrowest DS and overall spread.

  13. #13
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Yes, that's right. I wouldn't propose to suggest any design wheels for anyone except myself. But I will say that it is more about the total spoke count than the distribution side-to-side. If you can do 24 spokes as 12:12, you can likely do them as 16:8. The one downside is that you are "squandering" a good bit of the stiffness that accrues from the wide NDS flange spacing by reducing the number of those spokes. The greater number of DS spokes (narrow flange spacing) can't make up for that. I really value the even spoke tension, and am willing to make that compromise. Over the years I have accomplished this other ways with other hubs designs such as using offset rims.
    It seems like I've also heard of someone using straight gauge spokes on one side and double butted on the other (or bladed and DB) to try to accomplish this as well (does that make sense?). The last set of wheels I built was 32h, so I didn't much worry about it, but if I ever get my weight down into the 170's, I've been thinking about rewarding myself with some lighter weight wheels and maybe trying wider rims like these: http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/162.htm laced to some of their hubs. I don't race and would never "need" wheels like that, but it's nice having a prize to work toward.
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  14. #14
    Rubber side down Clipped_in's Avatar
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    I'm 195# and too heavy for triplet lacing, but I've put several thousand miles on a set of these hubs laced 24 radial front - 28 2X DS/NDS rear with Sapim Lasers spokes, and I have had no problems. They are nice stiff wheels. You do need to run the DS tension up fairly high (I used 125kgf) to achieve a good stable NDS tension that I was comfortable with.

    I think the hubs are a great value.
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  15. #15
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Yes, as BoSoxYacht said.

    I like that the Novatecs use separate set ups for 10sp, 11sp Shimano and Campy to maximize the DS spacing for each whereas the Bitex is set up with the same spacing which has to cater to the narrowest DS and overall spread.
    Last summer I built a set of very lightweight wheels using Dati hubs over the Bitex ones due to a better hub geometry. The build(Stan's Alpha 340, Sapim CX-Ray 24 spoke, 2x DS Radial NDS) has worked quite well, but the hub's axle is so flexy that the freehub will seize for a split second when coasting over bumps. If I were a big guy i might be able to understand the flex, but I weigh just under 170.

    I think I'll give the BHS hubs a try. After calculating the required spoke lengths, I found that I already had the correct length spokes on hand leftover from other builds, so this build will be pretty cheap + easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
    Last summer I built a set of very lightweight wheels using Dati hubs over the Bitex ones due to a better hub geometry. The build(Stan's Alpha 340, Sapim CX-Ray 24 spoke, 2x DS Radial NDS) has worked quite well, but the hub's axle is so flexy that the freehub will seize for a split second when coasting over bumps. If I were a big guy i might be able to understand the flex, but I weigh just under 170.

    I think I'll give the BHS hubs a try. After calculating the required spoke lengths, I found that I already had the correct length spokes on hand leftover from other builds, so this build will be pretty cheap + easy.
    I actually haven't had an issue with any of the 4 sets of wheels I've built with BHS hubs, so the need to be wider thing isn't necessarily any issue. And for what it's worth I'm also 170.

    My last 2 builds with them were identical sets training wheels for myself and my brother using the BHS 218/85w hubs laced to the C472w/279 rims 24f/28r with Sapim Race spokes 2x & brass nipples everywhere. Basically a home built version of the old Vitesse with the higher spoke count. Both sets have been perfect so far and for ~$250 of parts I don't think I've had a better value in wheels. I train on them full time occasionally leave them on for races.

    What is the rest of your build?

  17. #17
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    What is the rest of your build?
    I'll be using Stan's Alpha 340 rims(20/24), CX-Ray spokes 2xDS radial NDS with brass nipples on the rear wheel.

    I love the Stan's hoops. They are very light, and are 21mm wide which makes a noticeable difference in ride quality and handling. I'd like to run 23mm wide rims, but they just don't fit well in my frame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    It seems like I've also heard of someone using straight gauge spokes on one side and double butted on the other (or bladed and DB) to try to accomplish this as well (does that make sense?).
    Not exactly. Different spoke gauges on the two sides can help balance the tensile stress in the spokes, not the tension. It is a similar difference to compressive force and pressure. So if a smaller cross section area spoke (say 1/2) has also 1/2 the tension in it as the other side spokes, the two will have the same stress in them, the same tension/unit area. Look at it this way, the tensile stress inside the spokes will be the same on both sides, but the force exerted on the hub and rim by the spokes will still be different by a factor of two.. Hard to grasp, I know, if one is not an engineer or scientist. That just assures you the amount of stretch in the spokes will be the same on both sides. It is useful if you insist on having heavier spokes on the DS, because you can have lighter spokes on the NDS. If you are willing to have thinner spokes on both sides, then there is no advantage to making the DS heavier. This is not generally something that needs to be considered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
    I'll be using Stan's Alpha 340 rims(20/24), CX-Ray spokes 2xDS radial NDS with brass nipples on the rear wheel.

    I love the Stan's hoops. They are very light, and are 21mm wide which makes a noticeable difference in ride quality and handling. I'd like to run 23mm wide rims, but they just don't fit well in my frame.
    You may have guessed this but I am not very concerned about weight. But that sounds like what a lot of people use for "climbing wheels". Seriously curious why you would build these so light.
    Last edited by canam73; 08-12-13 at 12:17 PM.

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    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    You may have guessed this but I am not very concerned about weight. But that sounds like what a lot of people use for "climbing wheels". Seriously curious why you build these so light.
    With my light weight, and the good roads in the area, lightweight wheels aren't a liability. Why would I want to build wheels heavier than needed.

    To be honest, the reason I use Alpha 340 rims is because of their width, and when buying parts at dealer cost, price isn't much of a factor. I can build a set of sub 1300g wheels for under $400, so why not roll on lightweight wheels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
    With my light weight, and the good roads in the area, lightweight wheels aren't a liability. Why would I want to build wheels heavier than needed.

    To be honest, the reason I use Alpha 340 rims is because of their width, and when buying parts at dealer cost, price isn't much of a factor. I can build a set of sub 1300g wheels for under $400, so why not roll on lightweight wheels?
    I have mediocre roads. Not the worst, but enough frost heave and pot holes that a little extra piece of mind is worth it. I've also found that I don't notice much difference in weight below ~1500g, but then again I'm in Wisconsin so the hills can be long or steep but never both and usually not either.

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    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    I have mediocre roads. Not the worst, but enough frost heave and pot holes that a little extra piece of mind is worth it. I've also found that I don't notice much difference in weight below ~1500g, but then again I'm in Wisconsin so the hills can be long or steep but never both and usually not either.
    Have you tried wider rims?

    I love the ride that I get from 21mm rims + 23mm tires. It's a noticeable improvement over 19mm rims with 23mm tires.

    There aren't many hills in my area(NW Phoenix), but there are some actual climbs not too far from town(South Mountain + Bartlett Lake).
    Last edited by BoSoxYacht; 08-12-13 at 01:00 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    I've built a few sets with them and basically agree with everything said above. But for a few more dollars I prefer the Novatec rears from bdopcycling.com. You can get the anti-bite guard on the freehub and I like the wider flange spacing (even on the campy and 11sp versions). Obviously you need to be ok with black. For the front I've been using the bikehubstore "wide" model with good results.
    I went with Novatec 10 and 11 speed for the same reason FWIW and have been happy. I also factored in the all-important "which is less noisy" technical element...
    Last edited by gc3; 08-12-13 at 01:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSoxYacht View Post
    Have you tried wider rims?

    I love the ride that I get from 21mm rims + 23mm tires. It's a noticeable improvement over 19mm rims with 23mm tires.

    There aren't many hills in my area(NW Phoenix), but there are some actual climbs not too far from town(South Mountain + Bartlett Lake).
    Yes, the training wheels I described above use the BHS/Kinlin wide rim. I also have a PT laced to a HED Belgium that I swap in and a set of A23s laced to WI H2/H3 hubs. They are basically all I ride other than my tubular race wheels.

  25. #25
    don't misunderestimate me BoSoxYacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
    I went with Novatec 10 and 11 speed for the same reason FWIW and have been happy. I also factored in the all-important "which is less noisy" technical element...
    It's a shame that BDop doesn't offer a silver hub, but honestly I like a loud hub when coasting.

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