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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 08-19-13, 05:29 PM   #1
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Brakes for 23mm Rims

I moved a pair of wheels over to my caad that have 23mm rims and I noticed the braking isn't as good. The bike as the stock Tektro brakes which have been okay but I was wondering if any of the newer brakes are designed to work better with wider rims. Any suggestions? I've been thinking of upgrading the group to Red but no money for that now. Do the newer Red brakes work well with wider rims? If so, that might be the best option as I slowly piece together a new group.
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Old 08-19-13, 06:56 PM   #2
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I've been very happy with my Campagnolo Athena brakes on my Kirk which runs HED C2 rims. I'd make sure that the pads are contacting the rim evenly if you have not already.
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Old 08-19-13, 07:05 PM   #3
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Did you adjust the brakes for the new rims?
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Old 08-19-13, 07:32 PM   #4
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If your pads had any wear, you might want to loosen them and realign. Pads wear into the plane of the rim, so just loosening the cable may open them more, but you may have an edge of the pad contacting first.
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Old 08-19-13, 08:57 PM   #5
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Did you adjust the brakes for the new rims?
You must be a Kurosawa fan

I opened them more so they wouldn't rub, but is there a different adjustment you are referring to?

I've seen some comments here that brakes for standard rims may not work as well with wider rims due to less leverage. I was thinking that might be the issue here and if so wondering what might be a good brake upgrade.
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Old 08-19-13, 09:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
You must be a Kurosawa fan

I opened them more so they wouldn't rub, but is there a different adjustment you are referring to?

I've seen some comments here that brakes for standard rims may not work as well with wider rims due to less leverage. I was thinking that might be the issue here and if so wondering what might be a good brake upgrade.
Tektro brakes come with crappy pads. You should try some Koolstops or Swisstops before getting new brakes.

The adjustment you need to check and make is done by loosening the nut that holds the pad holder to the caliper arm. This allows the pad to both slide up and down and tilt both vertically and horizontally. Make sure the pad is completely with in the rims braking strip vertically and the tighten so the pad will stay at that height but you can still tilt it some. On some rims the brake strip is not vertical but angles out towards the outside. Tilt the pad vertically to match the rim. And last, tilt it the pad so that the front of the pad is ever so slightly closer to the rim than the rear. This should stop any squeaking and keep it smooth. Now tighten them so the pads will stay put and you should be good to go.

Last edited by canam73; 08-19-13 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 08-19-13, 09:24 PM   #7
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I did replace the pads. I did not move the pads but I did not notice any misalignment. I can check again more closely. I'd still like to know if the lack of leverage or travel with wider rims is a potential issue.
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Old 08-19-13, 09:30 PM   #8
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I mostly switched to wide rims on all 4 of my road bikes and haven't had an issue. This includes a bike with Nashbar calipers (possibly re-badged Tektro) along with 2 Rival bikes and one Dura Ace.
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Old 08-20-13, 02:13 AM   #9
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From my experience being picky with brakes and having tried a lot of different brakes on different wheels, "standard" dual pivot brakes generally seem work fine with wide rims. However, the "cam" style brakes (ie. Planet X brakes) definitely lose power on wider rims. If I understand correctly, standard dual pivot brakes have linear travel, so the braking power should be the same at any point.

For reference, brakes I've tried on wide rims: Dura Ace 7800, SRAM Force & Rival, Far and Near, TRP970, Campy Athena, Planet X CNC, and Simkins Egg Brakes (terrible in general)

If in doubt, I'd say to swap the brakes over from your Synapse to test (assuming they worked fine with your C2s).

Regarding your question about the new Red brakes...well SRAM claims they were designed with wide rims in mind, but I've heard mixed reviews on the brakes in general.

Last edited by kyamei; 08-20-13 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 08-20-13, 01:00 PM   #10
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I have 23mm rims on my main bike. My Sram Red brakes work great. There is enough clearance for even wider rims.
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Old 08-20-13, 06:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyamei View Post
From my experience being picky with brakes and having tried a lot of different brakes on different wheels, "standard" dual pivot brakes generally seem work fine with wide rims. However, the "cam" style brakes (ie. Planet X brakes) definitely lose power on wider rims. If I understand correctly, standard dual pivot brakes have linear travel, so the braking power should be the same at any point.

For reference, brakes I've tried on wide rims: Dura Ace 7800, SRAM Force & Rival, Far and Near, TRP970, Campy Athena, Planet X CNC, and Simkins Egg Brakes (terrible in general)

If in doubt, I'd say to swap the brakes over from your Synapse to test (assuming they worked fine with your C2s).

Regarding your question about the new Red brakes...well SRAM claims they were designed with wide rims in mind, but I've heard mixed reviews on the brakes in general.
Can you elaborate?
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Old 08-20-13, 07:09 PM   #12
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Can you elaborate?
This is slightly related so ill throw it out there. I added 23mm wheels to my bike, fully adjusted the brakes and have noticed a decrease in stopping performance as well. I'm running new 105 series brakes...
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Old 08-21-13, 01:03 AM   #13
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Can you elaborate?
Read a few more comments similar to this when I was thinking about picking up a set, but here's one I recall off hand:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...ferings_234732
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Originally Posted by Velonews
[h=2]The Achilles heel[/h] The brakes are not what I thought they would be. I tinkered with brake pads and rim combinations and never got them to perform they way I would have liked. I think SRAM may have gotten a bit carried away in the weight department when designing them. When it comes to stopping power I think Shimano still outperforms SRAM.

What’s great about the new Red brakes is how they handle the latest generation of wide rims. I also like the quick-release adjuster on the brakes. It’s a nice design with indented travel that allows a rider with several wheelsets to adjust for wider rims very easily. It would also allow a rider on a long, wet ride or race to easily compensate for pad wear if using carbon wheels.
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Old 08-21-13, 09:45 AM   #14
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I had a different problem, as I could not get Ultegra brakes to clear the 23mm Boyd Viteese rims at least to remove the wheel. Once installed they worked great, but I had to deflate the 25mm tire to get them on the bike. . 105's did just fine however. I've run Swiss stop greens and the new Black and stopping power is fantastic.
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Old 08-21-13, 12:28 PM   #15
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I had a different problem, as I could not get Ultegra brakes to clear the 23mm Boyd Viteese rims at least to remove the wheel. Once installed they worked great, but I had to deflate the 25mm tire to get them on the bike. . 105's did just fine however. I've run Swiss stop greens and the new Black and stopping power is fantastic.
That sounds like a problem clearing the tire, not the rim.
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Old 08-21-13, 12:53 PM   #16
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yep, won't clear the tire, rim clearance is fine, but i don't want to have to deflate the tire to take the wheel off/on
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Old 08-21-13, 10:24 PM   #17
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Thanks Kyamei for the review.

Quote:
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yep, won't clear the tire, rim clearance is fine, but i don't want to have to deflate the tire to take the wheel off/on
Yeah, I have that problem too. Sounds like the Red brakes might do a better job here but maybe lack some stopping power. Still, they have to be better than the Tektro (at least you'd hope so).
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Old 08-22-13, 12:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
You must be a Kurosawa fan

I opened them more so they wouldn't rub, but is there a different adjustment you are referring to?

I've seen some comments here that brakes for standard rims may not work as well with wider rims due to less leverage. I was thinking that might be the issue here and if so wondering what might be a good brake upgrade.
I've never heard such a thing - that there are different brakes for different rims. Where did you hear it?
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Old 08-22-13, 09:13 PM   #19
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I've never heard such a thing - that there are different brakes for different rims. Where did you hear it?
Not that there are different brakes for different rims but some brakes may not work as well with wider rims. Threads such as this one have comments along these lines from respected people. There have been other threads too but that's the first one I found.
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Old 08-27-13, 11:25 AM   #20
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Interesting. Hadn't been aware of that. I put a set of Velocity A23's on my bike with 6500 Ultegra brakes (early 2000's, "9 speed" version). Didn't notice any difference in function at all from the three other wheels I'd been using temporarily which ranged from pretty narrow to "normal but not wide" (I can't remember the measurements but they did vary!). One of these days I'll try the wheels on my other bike which sports ~2010 or so Sram Red brake calipers; I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for functioning vs the really narrow Reynolds Alta Race rims that are on there.
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