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  1. #26
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Jens vs. Chuck Norris..........


    Man, I just don't know.
    "Rivendells do not rock; they jamboree."
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."

  2. #27
    BF Avatar Zombie Hunter Jseis's Avatar
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    Jens Voigt's Position...what do you think?

    Jens Voight Watts have their own exponents.
    Amerika, Land of the Very Brief.

  3. #28
    Senior Member Mike F's Avatar
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    2012 Scott CR1 Team
    2011 Felt Z-85
    2005 Jamis Durango Sport

  4. #29
    lead on macduff!
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    ^haha!
    i'd rather be alive wrong than dead right

  5. #30
    Mostly Harmless rjones28's Avatar
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    That's more or less how I have my bike set up.
    Quote Originally Posted by truckstop View Post
    getting banned from trollheim. does that mean you win?

  6. #31
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Jens - a tall guy, long legs and arms, short torso.
    his position is not that crunched up for him
    here's his bike, his setup specs
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
    note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
    short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
    seems to work for him
    Golden rose, the color of the dream I had
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    A never to grow old

  7. #32
    Senior Member Cookiemonsta's Avatar
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    We all have our own particular anatomy, and different things work for different people.

    If I had more flexibility, spent more hours in the saddle, and prioritized performance over comfort, I may have had a way more aggressive position on the bike as well.

  8. #33
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    Check out Jens Voigt's position in the drops below.
    Do you guys run this much arm/knee overlap in the drops?
    Granted he is riding the rivet to open his hip angle a bit but seem like his handlebar is in awfully close.
    Who is to quibble with a top pro but what do you guys think?
    It works for Jens Voight. The amusing thig we see are bikes that are setup like this with the customer in serious pain.

    Setting a bike up like a pro does not mean you will ride like a pro.

    BTW...Jens, as i recall has six kids. No wonder he has to keep riding... The bigger point is he pretty much crushes the old thingy about road bike riding and fertility. They guy probably rides close to 35,000 miles a year.

    That is all...

    In the fit world, we say "He's got the Jens Voight fit..." which is the equivalent of "I was just riding along..."
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-23-13 at 05:08 AM.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
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  9. #34
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
    Jens doesn't get no stinkin' fit, the bike submits to him. If it had knees it would kneel.
    Actually, he did a Retul in the off season.

    Another urban legend quashed...

    And I know you are kidding, but it cracks me when I come out here and read about how people can self fit. My bigger point is that his riding position is actually not something he just made up. He tested the damn thing.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  10. #35
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    41 Facepalm #897 : A thread suggesting Jens friggin Voigt needs a bike fitting.






























    Somebody shoot me. Please.

  11. #36
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    41 Facepalm #897 : A thread suggesting Jens friggin Voigt needs a bike fitting.
    Sorry...he did a retul on both his road and tt bikes back in the winter. Most of the other riders on Shack did as well.

    I won't shoot you. I just chalk it up to enthusiast talk.

    They actually carry a Retul with them on the road just in case.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  12. #37
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    41 Facepalm #897 : A thread suggesting Jens friggin Voigt needs a bike fitting.
    Somebody shoot me. Please.
    Dream on. There's no way any of us are putting you out of your misery that easily.

    What do you find so hard to believe about a pro needing a bike fiting?(not that Jens necessary 'needs' one) I suspect they get fit far more often than the pundits around here. And, I suspect there are more than a few who would like to be riding a position other than the one they are currently outfitted with.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  13. #38
    Free Velo Vol! Dudelsack's Avatar
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    Jens doesn't read books on bike fitting. He beats them with a bicycle chain until they surrender the information he wants.

  14. #39
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Dream on. There's no way any of us are putting you out of your misery that easily.

    What do you find so hard to believe about a pro needing a bike fiting?(not that Jens necessary 'needs' one) I suspect they get fit far more often than the pundits around here. And, I suspect there are more than a few who would like to be riding a position other than the one they are currently outfitted with.
    All very true...
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  15. #40
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    He only averaged 220 watts. Hell, I can do that on a Saturday group ride. What does Jens weigh? Maybe if I drop 40kg there's still hope for a pro career for me at 43 y.o.a.
    His NP (normalized power) was 279 watts. His IF was .76, so you can interpolate backwards from there and see his FTP is ~370 watts. I'm sure there are a bunch of guys here with a higher FTP. Voigt would crush them into chalk dust in a race. It ain't just numbers.
    Last edited by revchuck; 08-23-13 at 05:44 AM.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  16. #41
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazerzxr View Post
    I think.....you are obsessed. There is very little correlation between bike fits of one rider to the next, graphs have previously been posted which prove it - as much as 70mm difference in reach between riders of the same height. There are articles online that also talk about pros changing their stem lengths and seat heights between stages, cavendish is a notable example, big changes too. These guys ride how they are comfortable because fit is extremely personal. You simply can't measure someone and then set their bike up to some formula, if you do, it is unlikely to be optimal. My opinion of the photo, it looks like he's one of the most successful old blokes ever to ride a bike, you should learn from him rather than question or critique.
    I am sorry for you that you rambled on as you did.
    I probably shouldn't even respond to you but here goes.
    Jens is great. I do not question his fit for him. It was a general question about arm/knee overlap at the top of the pedal stroke.
    It appears to be more than I've seen. It is just an idle observation...not an indictment...lol.

  17. #42
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    What do you find so hard to believe about a pro needing a bike fiting?
    41 Facepalm #898 .











    It's the gift that keeps on giving.

  18. #43
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    I am sorry for you that you rambled on as you did.
    I probably shouldn't even respond to you but here goes.
    Jens is great. I do not question his fit for him. It was a general question about arm/knee overlap at the top of the pedal stroke.
    It appears to be more than I've seen. It is just an idle observation...not an indictment...lol.
    I read that, but could not stop laughing long enough to post anything.

    Ahhhh....the 41. :"Well, there's time I'll never get back..."

    There was a thread a few days back, and Nachoman posted a reply. Maybe the best one ever...

    "If you eliminate the random unprepared goofballs, you've eliminated 95% of the 41."
    Last edited by roadwarrior; 08-23-13 at 06:04 AM.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  19. #44
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
    Jens - a tall guy, long legs and arms, short torso.
    his position is not that crunched up for him
    here's his bike, his setup specs
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/a...-series-36321/
    note the saddlesetback and saddle to bar dim...
    short torso and long legs usually means a lot more setup options when it come to reach - my take...
    seems to work for him
    Without question it works great for him and by no way do I question his fit for him.
    Thanks for posting his bio and bike specs zen...appreciate that. He does ride with his bar pretty close in and down.
    There maybe a correlation between his proportions as you say and his particular fit....very tall guy with huge saddle height and massive drop.
    He also rides with long cranks.
    Thanks again.

  20. #45
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Maybe we can get him to post a video in a thread "How does my fit look?" and listen to the geniuses critique it.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  21. #46
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    I read that, but could not stop laughing long enough to post anything.

    Ahhhh....the 41. :"Well, there's time I'll never get back..."
    Hi Roadwarrior,
    It is almost as sad as funny. You can't post anything here without at least somebody going off half cocked. Weird dynamic.
    Thanks for your comments about Jens and in particular your comment about his mileage which is just unfathomable.
    Not sure you read about Boonen's exploits recently...another very big guy on the pro peloton as you know. He is off the bike for an indeterminate period because of a saddle cyst. Even top guys fall prey to the unbelievable repetition of pro cycling in spite of their vigilance to avert such issues.
    Didn't know Jens had so many kids either. Probably the bike is his only freedom.
    Cheers

  22. #47
    BF Avatar Zombie Hunter Jseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    Sorry...he did a retul on both his road and tt bikes back in the winter. Most of the other riders on Shack did as well.

    I won't shoot you. I just chalk it up to enthusiast talk.

    They actually carry a Retul with them on the road just in case.
    Thats pretty interesting..implies that the fit changes and they adapt. As a golfer who's been club fitted, I appreciate a data driven biometric approach as opposed to a voodoo artist with a divining rod. That's not a slam against a fitter, just that Retul figured out a way to do it better and it also makes it understandable to the cyclist.
    Amerika, Land of the Very Brief.

  23. #48
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
    Thats pretty interesting..implies that the fit changes and they adapt. As a golfer who's been club fitted, I appreciate a data driven biometric approach as opposed to a voodoo artist with a divining rod. That's not a slam against a fitter, just that Retul figured out a way to do it better and it also makes it understandable to the cyclist.
    You shouldn't. I grew up playing competitive golf. There have been more than a few pro golfers career's ruined by trying to fit some biometric norm.
    There are many schools on fit for both golf and cycling. A biometric fit is only as good as a biometric model which is just that...a model that likely doesn't crunch the 50 parameters involved in optimizing performance.
    I have posted this about the great Lee Trevino...short little fat Mexican...also brilliant who grew up poor and without a father...in the hall of fame. Lee basically aligned 30 degrees left and hit a push on every shot. Super strong grip...dead shut clubface at the top of his swing. Very unorthodox. Punters would ask Lee, hey Lee, why is it you never took lessons and had your swing adjusted to a more contemporary model? He said quite simply, he never found a teacher he couldn't beat.

  24. #49
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
    Thats pretty interesting..implies that the fit changes and they adapt. As a golfer who's been club fitted, I appreciate a data driven biometric approach as opposed to a voodoo artist with a divining rod. That's not a slam against a fitter, just that Retul figured out a way to do it better and it also makes it understandable to the cyclist.
    Fit does change. Also bikes change.

    If I switch to a new bike, I always get it set up rather than just starting with old dimensions.

    It's like clothes...if you lose 10 pounds you get to go shopping or dig into the closet for the skinny clothes. If youlose 10 pounds your bike fit changes.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  25. #50
    Senior Member elcruxio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    Without question it works great for him and by no way do I question his fit for him.
    Thanks for posting his bio and bike specs zen...appreciate that. He does ride with his bar pretty close in and down.
    There maybe a correlation between his proportions as you say and his particular fit....very tall guy with huge saddle height and massive drop.
    He also rides with long cranks.
    Thanks again.
    Long legs and especially long femurs cause knee elbow overlap. It just happens with tall guys regardless of reach. Although drop does seem to play a role. Not sure if the overlap would be as clear as with a bike that has a longer reach and no drop.
    I have a similiar fit with jens. He has a inch moee drop and I have an inch more reach. I'm two inches taller than him and also have long legs.

    Just to be clear, knee elbow overlap is in no way harmful or a bad thing. It just happens sometimes

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