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Attacked by a dog. Could I have done anything differently?

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Attacked by a dog. Could I have done anything differently?

Old 10-04-13, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hinmo24t
well if the punch-stun didn't work the old hockey trick of fishhooking the eye will prob get a reaction (no I never did this before). if it is for my life I give myself a decent chance against most animals... I bet I could fight off a mountain lion. now I do often surf with great white sharks and I'd be screwed if one decided to take me but I suppose this attitude would still be worthwhile.

last summer my buddies and I walked past a 13' great white carcass on the beach to surf.
Despite the way people carry on here, dogs do not represent a mortal threat to healthy adults unless there is something screwy going on (like you've fallen on the ground and one clamps onto your neck or you're taking on a pack of 10 fighting dogs). They can put you in a lot of discomfort and do significant damage while not killing you though. So I'm sure you could hold your own against the biggest and meanest Rott even if I also think that both you and the dog might come out in worse shape than necessary.
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Old 10-04-13, 12:49 PM
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Unfortunately there is no "one right way" to deal with all dogs and it is generalizations that can get you in trouble. Dogs are similar to people in that each has its own personality and motivations. Just like you have to learn to read people you have to learn to read dogs. Some are "playful" (which does not mean they aren't a danger to a cyclist) and want to chase and nip. Some have a strong herding instinct. Some are boisterous PITA just acting tough as long as they have the upper hand, and some are mean SOBs who are genuinely out to hurt you. The OP was in a particularly bad position when he encountered multiple dogs as the pack mentality tends to make dogs more aggressive and you now have to deal with potential attacks from multiple directions.

When confronted by feral or other aggressive dogs, I usually will do a cyclocross style dismount on the side away from the dog and keep the bike between myself and the animal. Trying to establish dominance by staring down a dog can be a mistake when you are facing a genuinely mean alpha. A better tactic is to slowly walk out of his/her territory letting the dog know you are keeping an eye on him/her. If the dog tries to encroach on your space or flank you, yell "No" and make a defensive gesture like bouncing the rear tire of the bike a few inches toward the dog. The message you want to get across is "OK, you're the alpha and I don't want trouble so I'm leaving, but if you attack me I will beat you to death with my Bianchi." If you have a frame pump or a bike lock/chain, you might want to get it in hand just in case.
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Old 10-04-13, 01:48 PM
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It is always tough to say if one "could have" done anything differently, because of the way that dogs can come up right by you silently when you aren't particularly watching for them.

A menacing dog is always a serious risk since it may not be vaccinated, and neighbors (who know where it "lives") may not admit as such (to avoid annoying their next-door-neighbors). Rabies is still 95% fatal if contracted, so you have justification for protecting yourself at all costs.

IF I get a warning it is approaching, and IF the dog does not back off or stop threatening when I try to act friendly, then I bust them in the head with a shot whip as hard as I can.

A dog can learn something new in under one second, if there is enough pain involved.
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Old 10-04-13, 02:04 PM
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Just to add to this entertaining debate for those of in the UK. We're not allowed to carry pepper spray, knives or guns but I bet there's no rule against a water bottle 2/3 full of water and a tablespoon of proper killer hot sauce . That would have the same effect I reckon and you could just tell any nosey cop you have a strange addiction to hot sauce (which I actually do!).
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Old 10-04-13, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek
That's because the best course of action varies and what consistently works for some people is a function of the types of dogs they encounter due to where they ride.

One thing that blows my mind is the number of people who act like idiots when dealing with dogs. But now that I live in an urban area, I also see plenty of cyclists who ride as if the traffic isn't there. By a curious coincidence, they constantly complain about being right hooked, harassed by motorists, and involved in crashes caused by cars. The MUP riders are even more clueless. So the good news is that there's some consistency in that they can be counted on to be willfully stupid and then blame circumstances when things go wrong.

What I find interesting is the number of people that consistently come out with the heat packing solution. I know plenty of people who own them including some with CCW permits, but I've never known anyone who rides much to either carry when riding or to advocate that as a solution. The other thing I find interesting is it tends to be the bigger guys that advocate this approach. Older people and women don't seem to require the weaponry to save themselves from threats that are normally less than half their size.
I don't "pack heat". But I sure as **** will if a dog becomes a problem on my regular rural route.

The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!

But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
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Old 10-04-13, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Long Tom
I don't "pack heat". But I sure as **** will if a dog becomes a problem on my regular rural route.

The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!

But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.

Now you're talking!
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Old 10-04-13, 02:30 PM
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It's all very well talking about popcorn in response to Long Tom's post but I have to agree with him. I carry a Victorinox penknife with a very sharp 3" blade (stop laughing at the back Americans ). If some huge angry farm mutt gets me on the ground with it's teeth in me and I can get my hands on my knife, it had better start praying. And I say that as a total animal lover.
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Old 10-04-13, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GuyWood
It's all very well talking about popcorn in response to Long Tom's post but I have to agree with him. I carry a Victorinox penknife with a very sharp 3" blade (stop laughing at the back Americans ). If some huge angry farm mutt gets me on the ground with it's teeth in me and I can get my hands on my knife, it had better start praying. And I say that as a total animal lover.
Also good for killing zombies.
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Old 10-04-13, 02:47 PM
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Ha, ha, Nachoman . Personally I'd opt for a .357 underlever - epic zombie slaying gun!
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Old 10-04-13, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 99Klein
On horseback you just turn and charge into them.
American Footbal Lesson: The best defense is a good offense.

I turn at dogs on my bike and charge them. You are much bigger than any dog, plus you're on a bike making you appear even bigger.

With a pack, you'll have to choose the alpha to charge. Be prepared to back up your charge with violence. Rule Number 5.
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Old 10-04-13, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghost Ryder
Bringing them in restaurants is wrong!
Health code violations up the ying yang, 1 report could get them shutdown.
In stores that allow it is fine with me, my dog doesn't throw a fit when he can't have a toy, or have to worry about him wandering off.
I don't even need a leash, he know to follow me.
Not in France where OP is.
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Old 10-04-13, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Yep, the above advice about stopping the only sure cure for the problem. When you see the dogs, stop, dismount, and walk past with the bike between you and the dog. I know this is an unattractive proposition, but it is the only safe way to handle the situation. You can try pepper spray, spraying them with a water bottle, beating them with a frame mounted pump, amazing acceleration, or shooting them with your trusty 9 mm, but none of those are sure to work. And concentrating on anything but riding is not such a good idea. If you don't have a good head start, and will be passing in close proximity, the walk by is the only sure cure. You have to assume the dog is not truly vicious, only stupidly protective of its territory. Else it wouldn't be off leash.
This. Keeping your bike between you and the dog/dogs as much as possible. Plus if you are off the bike, you can move quickly to adjust to their movement. Had a couple situations like this.
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Old 10-04-13, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hinmo24t
I bet I could fight off a mountain lion.
<apology>Sorry, I don't want to troll, but I have to be a smart-ass here.</apology>

Yo, tough guy, a mountain lion will jump you from above and behind and have his teeth in your jugular before you have time to let loose the last **** in your great-white bowels.

A dog, on the other hand, is dumb enough to announce his attack, so you could probably do a flying round-house and land back in your pedals leaving his limp, lifeless corpse hanging from the closest fence post as a testament to your bad-assedness.
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Old 10-04-13, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GuyWood
Just to add to this entertaining debate for those of in the UK. We're not allowed to carry pepper spray, knives or guns but I bet there's no rule against a water bottle 2/3 full of water and a tablespoon of proper killer hot sauce . That would have the same effect I reckon and you could just tell any nosey cop you have a strange addiction to hot sauce (which I actually do!).
Nothing to prevent you from doing it. Seems like a lot of weight to be lugging.

Originally Posted by Long Tom
I don't "pack heat". But I sure as **** will if a dog becomes a problem on my regular rural route.

The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!

But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
It has nothing to do with being fair. It has to do with being effective. Defending yourself effectively with a gun requires you to have an amount of advance warning that you'll rarely have in an actual attack. That's not effective.

If you return after an encounter with a firearm, it means you're not talking to owners to find out what's going on or communicate the problem to authorities who probably want to know about the owner as well as the dog. At that point, you're just taking the law into your own hands and hunting unrestrained dogs with a handgun on public roadways.

After you shoot the dog, the irresponsible jerks that let it run around will just get another. And it will act the same because the owners will do the same as they did with the first one. Roughly half of American households own guns. The percentage of cyclists that carry them is insanely small, including those who ride cross country in areas they don't know. It's interesting to see who needs this sort of protection.

But it's the American way to set up a confrontation and then take extreme measures under the justification of self defense. And yes, you're setting it up if you're going in prepared for battle.
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Old 10-04-13, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Not in France where OP is.
Or in a lot of countries.

Or in the US for that matter. Just eat al fresco. You'll be exposed to birds, bugs, etc. It's amazing that people aren't dropping dead right and left. If you visit Portland, you'll find dogs in the outdoor seating areas of many if not most restaurants. Water bowls and treats are typically provided.
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Old 10-04-13, 03:54 PM
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I had lunch with a business client a few weeks ago and he basically admitted that his doctor wrote him a medical prescription for a therapy dog at his request. His dog was with him at our business meeting, at a fairly upscale restaurant, and woudn't stop barking. The dog was also up in my crotch half the time and even got up into this guy's lap to lick some food off his plate. It was kind of shocking.
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Old 10-04-13, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Nachoman
I had lunch with a business client a few weeks ago and he basically admitted that his doctor wrote him a medical prescription for a therapy dog at his request. His dog was with him at our business meeting, at a fairly upscale restaurant, and woudn't stop barking. The dog was also up in my crotch half the time and even got up into this guy's lap to lick some food off his plate. It was kind of shocking.
This is relatively common out here. In fact, when I'm out and about with my dog, I've actually been invited into restaurants, the explanation being, "Service animals are allowed. We not allowed to ask for credentials or to ask what service your dog provides."

As much as I like dogs, I don't like this sort of thing because it alienates people who don't like dogs. My dog is well behaved, but people who don't know me don't know that. So we always sit outside somewhere where it's understood dogs belong -- usually in a section that's a bit separate from everyone else.

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Old 10-04-13, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek
This is relatively common out here. In fact, when I'm out and about with my dog, I've actually been invited into restaurants, the explanation being, "Service animals are allowed. We not allowed to ask for credentials or to ask what service your dog provides."

As much as I like dogs, I don't like this sort of thing because it alienates people who don't like dogs. My dog is well behaved, but people who don't know me don't know that. So we always sit outside somewhere where it's understood dogs belong -- usually in a section that's a bit separate from everyone else.

So which drink was for the dog, the mojito or the beer?
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Old 10-04-13, 04:29 PM
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Good thread, I deal with farm dogs a lot.

Getting off your bike and having a handful of road gravel with arm up ready to throw and/or a big stick held menacingly will bluff the vast majority of dogs. Packs can be turned around by meeting the first chargers head on with a mean growl and a face full of thrown gravel. One of two yipping in pain will send the others running.

Always, always make an effort to talk/chew out the owner. Write them a letter afterword if you have too, you might just be saving some kid from getting bit.

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Old 10-04-13, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by stilltooslow
So which drink was for the dog, the mojito or the beer?
She's not 21, so she only got water out of a bowl.

Though she did taste test the burger I ordered as well as the fries to make sure they were up to scratch
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Old 10-04-13, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by banerjek
She's not 21, so she only got water out of a bowl.

Though she did taste test the burger I ordered as well as the fries to make sure they were up to scratch
LOL. A happy looking dog just the same. FWIW, my dogs definitely like beer. Don't ask me how I know....
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Old 10-04-13, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stilltooslow
LOL. A happy looking dog just the same. FWIW, my dogs definitely like beer. Don't ask me how I know....
This one does too. She likes Scotch as well so you need to keep her away from it. My previous dog loved beer but treated spirits like she would a stinging insect -- a quick sniff, a jump back from the sting followed by a quick whip of the paw to put it out of commission. She took out some really pricey stuff at a party once
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Old 10-04-13, 05:06 PM
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Has anyone ever tried bear bangers when getting chased by dogs?
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Old 10-04-13, 05:09 PM
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Never ignore a dog. The lack of a challenge is often viewed as an invitation to attack. I know, have been bitten 8 times.

Get off the bike, keep it between you & him. If he's super aggressive, swing the bike as a weapon. Never been bitten using this technique.
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Old 10-04-13, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by byte_speed
Never ignore a dog. The lack of a challenge is often viewed as an invitation to attack. I know, have been bitten 8 times.

Get off the bike, keep it between you & him. If he's super aggressive, swing the bike as a weapon. Never been bitten using this technique.
<Note to self.....don't bike in East Tennessee>

We can carry pepper spray around here and I do so. I've had to use it twice and it works well. One of the offending mutts is still kept free by the owner, and while he still barks and begins to chase me, he never follows through anymore.
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