Attacked by a dog. Could I have done anything differently?
#76
Portland Fred
well if the punch-stun didn't work the old hockey trick of fishhooking the eye will prob get a reaction (no I never did this before). if it is for my life I give myself a decent chance against most animals... I bet I could fight off a mountain lion. now I do often surf with great white sharks and I'd be screwed if one decided to take me but I suppose this attitude would still be worthwhile.
last summer my buddies and I walked past a 13' great white carcass on the beach to surf.
last summer my buddies and I walked past a 13' great white carcass on the beach to surf.
#77
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Unfortunately there is no "one right way" to deal with all dogs and it is generalizations that can get you in trouble. Dogs are similar to people in that each has its own personality and motivations. Just like you have to learn to read people you have to learn to read dogs. Some are "playful" (which does not mean they aren't a danger to a cyclist) and want to chase and nip. Some have a strong herding instinct. Some are boisterous PITA just acting tough as long as they have the upper hand, and some are mean SOBs who are genuinely out to hurt you. The OP was in a particularly bad position when he encountered multiple dogs as the pack mentality tends to make dogs more aggressive and you now have to deal with potential attacks from multiple directions.
When confronted by feral or other aggressive dogs, I usually will do a cyclocross style dismount on the side away from the dog and keep the bike between myself and the animal. Trying to establish dominance by staring down a dog can be a mistake when you are facing a genuinely mean alpha. A better tactic is to slowly walk out of his/her territory letting the dog know you are keeping an eye on him/her. If the dog tries to encroach on your space or flank you, yell "No" and make a defensive gesture like bouncing the rear tire of the bike a few inches toward the dog. The message you want to get across is "OK, you're the alpha and I don't want trouble so I'm leaving, but if you attack me I will beat you to death with my Bianchi." If you have a frame pump or a bike lock/chain, you might want to get it in hand just in case.
When confronted by feral or other aggressive dogs, I usually will do a cyclocross style dismount on the side away from the dog and keep the bike between myself and the animal. Trying to establish dominance by staring down a dog can be a mistake when you are facing a genuinely mean alpha. A better tactic is to slowly walk out of his/her territory letting the dog know you are keeping an eye on him/her. If the dog tries to encroach on your space or flank you, yell "No" and make a defensive gesture like bouncing the rear tire of the bike a few inches toward the dog. The message you want to get across is "OK, you're the alpha and I don't want trouble so I'm leaving, but if you attack me I will beat you to death with my Bianchi." If you have a frame pump or a bike lock/chain, you might want to get it in hand just in case.
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It is always tough to say if one "could have" done anything differently, because of the way that dogs can come up right by you silently when you aren't particularly watching for them.
A menacing dog is always a serious risk since it may not be vaccinated, and neighbors (who know where it "lives") may not admit as such (to avoid annoying their next-door-neighbors). Rabies is still 95% fatal if contracted, so you have justification for protecting yourself at all costs.
IF I get a warning it is approaching, and IF the dog does not back off or stop threatening when I try to act friendly, then I bust them in the head with a shot whip as hard as I can.
A dog can learn something new in under one second, if there is enough pain involved.
A menacing dog is always a serious risk since it may not be vaccinated, and neighbors (who know where it "lives") may not admit as such (to avoid annoying their next-door-neighbors). Rabies is still 95% fatal if contracted, so you have justification for protecting yourself at all costs.
IF I get a warning it is approaching, and IF the dog does not back off or stop threatening when I try to act friendly, then I bust them in the head with a shot whip as hard as I can.
A dog can learn something new in under one second, if there is enough pain involved.
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Just to add to this entertaining debate for those of in the UK. We're not allowed to carry pepper spray, knives or guns but I bet there's no rule against a water bottle 2/3 full of water and a tablespoon of proper killer hot sauce . That would have the same effect I reckon and you could just tell any nosey cop you have a strange addiction to hot sauce (which I actually do!).
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That's because the best course of action varies and what consistently works for some people is a function of the types of dogs they encounter due to where they ride.
One thing that blows my mind is the number of people who act like idiots when dealing with dogs. But now that I live in an urban area, I also see plenty of cyclists who ride as if the traffic isn't there. By a curious coincidence, they constantly complain about being right hooked, harassed by motorists, and involved in crashes caused by cars. The MUP riders are even more clueless. So the good news is that there's some consistency in that they can be counted on to be willfully stupid and then blame circumstances when things go wrong.
What I find interesting is the number of people that consistently come out with the heat packing solution. I know plenty of people who own them including some with CCW permits, but I've never known anyone who rides much to either carry when riding or to advocate that as a solution. The other thing I find interesting is it tends to be the bigger guys that advocate this approach. Older people and women don't seem to require the weaponry to save themselves from threats that are normally less than half their size.
One thing that blows my mind is the number of people who act like idiots when dealing with dogs. But now that I live in an urban area, I also see plenty of cyclists who ride as if the traffic isn't there. By a curious coincidence, they constantly complain about being right hooked, harassed by motorists, and involved in crashes caused by cars. The MUP riders are even more clueless. So the good news is that there's some consistency in that they can be counted on to be willfully stupid and then blame circumstances when things go wrong.
What I find interesting is the number of people that consistently come out with the heat packing solution. I know plenty of people who own them including some with CCW permits, but I've never known anyone who rides much to either carry when riding or to advocate that as a solution. The other thing I find interesting is it tends to be the bigger guys that advocate this approach. Older people and women don't seem to require the weaponry to save themselves from threats that are normally less than half their size.
The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!
But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
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I don't "pack heat". But I sure as **** will if a dog becomes a problem on my regular rural route.
The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!
But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!
But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
Now you're talking!
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#82
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It's all very well talking about popcorn in response to Long Tom's post but I have to agree with him. I carry a Victorinox penknife with a very sharp 3" blade (stop laughing at the back Americans ). If some huge angry farm mutt gets me on the ground with it's teeth in me and I can get my hands on my knife, it had better start praying. And I say that as a total animal lover.
#83
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It's all very well talking about popcorn in response to Long Tom's post but I have to agree with him. I carry a Victorinox penknife with a very sharp 3" blade (stop laughing at the back Americans ). If some huge angry farm mutt gets me on the ground with it's teeth in me and I can get my hands on my knife, it had better start praying. And I say that as a total animal lover.
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#84
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Ha, ha, Nachoman . Personally I'd opt for a .357 underlever - epic zombie slaying gun!
#85
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American Footbal Lesson: The best defense is a good offense.
I turn at dogs on my bike and charge them. You are much bigger than any dog, plus you're on a bike making you appear even bigger.
With a pack, you'll have to choose the alpha to charge. Be prepared to back up your charge with violence. Rule Number 5.
I turn at dogs on my bike and charge them. You are much bigger than any dog, plus you're on a bike making you appear even bigger.
With a pack, you'll have to choose the alpha to charge. Be prepared to back up your charge with violence. Rule Number 5.
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Bringing them in restaurants is wrong!
Health code violations up the ying yang, 1 report could get them shutdown.
In stores that allow it is fine with me, my dog doesn't throw a fit when he can't have a toy, or have to worry about him wandering off.
I don't even need a leash, he know to follow me.
Health code violations up the ying yang, 1 report could get them shutdown.
In stores that allow it is fine with me, my dog doesn't throw a fit when he can't have a toy, or have to worry about him wandering off.
I don't even need a leash, he know to follow me.
#87
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Yep, the above advice about stopping the only sure cure for the problem. When you see the dogs, stop, dismount, and walk past with the bike between you and the dog. I know this is an unattractive proposition, but it is the only safe way to handle the situation. You can try pepper spray, spraying them with a water bottle, beating them with a frame mounted pump, amazing acceleration, or shooting them with your trusty 9 mm, but none of those are sure to work. And concentrating on anything but riding is not such a good idea. If you don't have a good head start, and will be passing in close proximity, the walk by is the only sure cure. You have to assume the dog is not truly vicious, only stupidly protective of its territory. Else it wouldn't be off leash.
#88
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<apology>Sorry, I don't want to troll, but I have to be a smart-ass here.</apology>
Yo, tough guy, a mountain lion will jump you from above and behind and have his teeth in your jugular before you have time to let loose the last **** in your great-white bowels.
A dog, on the other hand, is dumb enough to announce his attack, so you could probably do a flying round-house and land back in your pedals leaving his limp, lifeless corpse hanging from the closest fence post as a testament to your bad-assedness.
Yo, tough guy, a mountain lion will jump you from above and behind and have his teeth in your jugular before you have time to let loose the last **** in your great-white bowels.
A dog, on the other hand, is dumb enough to announce his attack, so you could probably do a flying round-house and land back in your pedals leaving his limp, lifeless corpse hanging from the closest fence post as a testament to your bad-assedness.
#89
Portland Fred
Just to add to this entertaining debate for those of in the UK. We're not allowed to carry pepper spray, knives or guns but I bet there's no rule against a water bottle 2/3 full of water and a tablespoon of proper killer hot sauce . That would have the same effect I reckon and you could just tell any nosey cop you have a strange addiction to hot sauce (which I actually do!).
I don't "pack heat". But I sure as **** will if a dog becomes a problem on my regular rural route.
The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!
But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
The "half their size" comment is gratuitous and has nothing to do with anything. I weigh 215. A 107-lb dog could take me down on my bike and maul me. For that matter, so could a dog a quarter my size. I'm cleated to the damn bike!
But your comment reeks of an anti-gun "play fair!" attitude. Screw THAT. Homie don't fight fair.
If you return after an encounter with a firearm, it means you're not talking to owners to find out what's going on or communicate the problem to authorities who probably want to know about the owner as well as the dog. At that point, you're just taking the law into your own hands and hunting unrestrained dogs with a handgun on public roadways.
After you shoot the dog, the irresponsible jerks that let it run around will just get another. And it will act the same because the owners will do the same as they did with the first one. Roughly half of American households own guns. The percentage of cyclists that carry them is insanely small, including those who ride cross country in areas they don't know. It's interesting to see who needs this sort of protection.
But it's the American way to set up a confrontation and then take extreme measures under the justification of self defense. And yes, you're setting it up if you're going in prepared for battle.
#90
Portland Fred
Or in a lot of countries.
Or in the US for that matter. Just eat al fresco. You'll be exposed to birds, bugs, etc. It's amazing that people aren't dropping dead right and left. If you visit Portland, you'll find dogs in the outdoor seating areas of many if not most restaurants. Water bowls and treats are typically provided.
Or in the US for that matter. Just eat al fresco. You'll be exposed to birds, bugs, etc. It's amazing that people aren't dropping dead right and left. If you visit Portland, you'll find dogs in the outdoor seating areas of many if not most restaurants. Water bowls and treats are typically provided.
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I had lunch with a business client a few weeks ago and he basically admitted that his doctor wrote him a medical prescription for a therapy dog at his request. His dog was with him at our business meeting, at a fairly upscale restaurant, and woudn't stop barking. The dog was also up in my crotch half the time and even got up into this guy's lap to lick some food off his plate. It was kind of shocking.
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#92
Portland Fred
I had lunch with a business client a few weeks ago and he basically admitted that his doctor wrote him a medical prescription for a therapy dog at his request. His dog was with him at our business meeting, at a fairly upscale restaurant, and woudn't stop barking. The dog was also up in my crotch half the time and even got up into this guy's lap to lick some food off his plate. It was kind of shocking.
As much as I like dogs, I don't like this sort of thing because it alienates people who don't like dogs. My dog is well behaved, but people who don't know me don't know that. So we always sit outside somewhere where it's understood dogs belong -- usually in a section that's a bit separate from everyone else.
#93
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This is relatively common out here. In fact, when I'm out and about with my dog, I've actually been invited into restaurants, the explanation being, "Service animals are allowed. We not allowed to ask for credentials or to ask what service your dog provides."
As much as I like dogs, I don't like this sort of thing because it alienates people who don't like dogs. My dog is well behaved, but people who don't know me don't know that. So we always sit outside somewhere where it's understood dogs belong -- usually in a section that's a bit separate from everyone else.
As much as I like dogs, I don't like this sort of thing because it alienates people who don't like dogs. My dog is well behaved, but people who don't know me don't know that. So we always sit outside somewhere where it's understood dogs belong -- usually in a section that's a bit separate from everyone else.
#94
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Good thread, I deal with farm dogs a lot.
Getting off your bike and having a handful of road gravel with arm up ready to throw and/or a big stick held menacingly will bluff the vast majority of dogs. Packs can be turned around by meeting the first chargers head on with a mean growl and a face full of thrown gravel. One of two yipping in pain will send the others running.
Always, always make an effort to talk/chew out the owner. Write them a letter afterword if you have too, you might just be saving some kid from getting bit.
Don
Getting off your bike and having a handful of road gravel with arm up ready to throw and/or a big stick held menacingly will bluff the vast majority of dogs. Packs can be turned around by meeting the first chargers head on with a mean growl and a face full of thrown gravel. One of two yipping in pain will send the others running.
Always, always make an effort to talk/chew out the owner. Write them a letter afterword if you have too, you might just be saving some kid from getting bit.
Don
#95
Portland Fred
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#97
Portland Fred
This one does too. She likes Scotch as well so you need to keep her away from it. My previous dog loved beer but treated spirits like she would a stinging insect -- a quick sniff, a jump back from the sting followed by a quick whip of the paw to put it out of commission. She took out some really pricey stuff at a party once
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Never ignore a dog. The lack of a challenge is often viewed as an invitation to attack. I know, have been bitten 8 times.
Get off the bike, keep it between you & him. If he's super aggressive, swing the bike as a weapon. Never been bitten using this technique.
Get off the bike, keep it between you & him. If he's super aggressive, swing the bike as a weapon. Never been bitten using this technique.
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We can carry pepper spray around here and I do so. I've had to use it twice and it works well. One of the offending mutts is still kept free by the owner, and while he still barks and begins to chase me, he never follows through anymore.