halfspeed

I don't think it cost me anywhere near that much.

WhyFi

Hmmm... I wonder if that rate is only the norm in big, gouging cities...

halfspeed

Their main line of business isn't froofroo hifi, it's repairing TVs and mass market HT receivers but they have a good reputation and usually a backlog.

zymphad

Heh, I think it would be fun to have a Cipollini bike just because Cipollini himself is an oddity.

He made an idiotic action/Bond short for his Cipollini bike. Watched it on Youtube, it's really dumb, but amusing. Instead of bike/car chase, he's speeding away on the Cipollini bike :/

The bike is called Cipollini B0ND

I wonder how popular these bikes are in Italy.

I still think Orbeas are more sexy than these Cipollini bikes.

Long Tom

It comes with a stemmo that's already been slammo'd (pardon my Italian).... that right there is worth some bucks!

KantoBoy

Quote:

I wonder how popular these bikes are in Italy.

the company sponsors 2 teams in the pro circuit.

I wonder who's in with Mario on this one investor-wise. Very aggressive price/marketing. That business plan is based on a sprinter's strategy in a race too? lol.

Campag4life

Agree. Think about the market for a $6K frame when you can get a Specialized S-works for just over 1/2 that and many believe that price is steep.
How many could they possibly sell with all the lower cost competitition from Cervelo, BMC, Spesh, Trek etc.

rpenmanparker 

C4L, I know you have a well thought out, very high regard for many things Italian. And rightly so. Nevertheless, can we agree that this is an example of unreasonable exploitation of the "Made in Italy" mark.

halfspeed

People spend many times that on watches that are less accurate than a digital Timex. Sometimes there are other things that contribute to perceived value that are not immediately apparent to everyone.

zymphad

Eh, people like me love mechanical watches not for accuracy, completely different reasons. But these Cipollini bikes are marketed for same reasons that Specialized market their S-Works, best engineered bikes for performance. Aesthetically, these Cipollini aren't any sexier than Specialized/Orbea whatever.

halfspeed

Such as?

That's not all. Read this thread.

That's your opinion.

zymphad

For me it's just marveling that a large spring, gears and balance wheel can still keep time accurate to within +/- 5 seconds. Whether it's Swiss/Japanese/Chinese doesn't matter much to me, though mine is Swiss ETA. I just think they are really cool, love turning the watch over and watching balance wheel see thru caseback.

I've been reading it. The made in Italy arguements means little to me. I don't believe a person's ethnicity makes them better at forming carbon, or attaching vaccum tubes...

Yup it is. And that's the point, aesthetics don't matter much for pricing since all the OEMs provide aesthetically pleasing frames. Frankly to me, whether it's Trek, Specialized, Orbea, Cipollini, BMC, GIANT, they all have the same compact design to me. Sloping top tube, squared off seat tube and connectors (supposedly make stiffer) massive bottom bracket, large downtube, gigantic head tube, something in the seat stays to absorb vibrations... Even the fork the same, bladed, somethign to absorb vibrations/shock again and usually some airflow cutaway. And something doesn't mean insert, could be bent, whatever.

halfspeed

My opinion is that it's absurd to pay more than $20 for a watch or anything if you already carry a cell phone.

Campag4life

Like anything Robert, not black or white. In my opinion Italy is the design leader in the world but there is a continuum often misinterpreted or confused...the world of design aka form versus function i.e. performance and durability. Who can argue that F1 champion Ferrarri, Superbike champion Ducati and Campagnolo aren't best in class? Not only extraordinary beauty but function at the highest level. But...my view is Specialized or Trek...Giant is in the mix and French made Look who had the best carbon bikes early and Cervelo, make the best bicycles in the world...and they ain't Italian. I believe Italy who made some of the best road bikes for decades...doesn't have the technical depth of the others mentioned in the context of carbon fiber but hard to prove. Bikes that win best in class testing awards haven't been Italian in the last few years. I honestly believe they are all so close it almost doesn't matter. There are greater differences within specific models of a given manufacturer than same genre of bike from maker to maker.

I will add I believe its no coincidence that the best designs of form come from Italy with its storied history of art, culture and amazing landscape.

zymphad

Which is my point... People don't buy mechanical watches for performance. People buy bikes for performance/comfort.

rpenmanparker 

No doubt from a purely functional point of view. However, my wife told me I shouldn't be seen wearing a "rubber" watch referring to my Timex lap-chronometer. Hence the Tag! All I'm saying is you are neglecting the jewelry aspect of watches, which is totally irrational. I guess that can apply to bikes too. Some of us like them to work really well. Some of us like them to look really good. I bet most of us want to have a lot of both of those characteristics. I am certainly in that category.

halfspeed

Many do. Many others don't. How else do you explain the existence of Vanilla, Bohemian, or even Cipollini?

halfspeed

There you go.

rpenmanparker 

I can't argue with any of that. But consider these two points: What does an upstart have to do to properly assume the aura of those best-of-class examples you gave? Just say, "Made in Italy?" I for one don't think that is enough. I am only proposing that we should be more critical and make a company like Cipollini's prove its right to assume all the acclaim that seems to automatically accompany the "Made in Italy" designation. And second, looking at the other side of the coin, supposing one of the stalwarts like Ferrari, Ducati, or Campagnolo fell on hard times, not financially, but technically and aesthetically. In other words, supposing one of them decided to milk the cash cow. How long would it take for the public to recognize the shift? I say it would be a very, very long time before most folks could admit that the products were no longer the real deal. The emotional tie shared by such companies with the public is just too strong to be severed quickly no matter how egregious the company's behavior might become. All I'm proposing is that we as consumers look very hard at what we buy and validate our beliefs about what people are selling us. "Made in Italy" is a largely accurate guide to goods that are worth our investment, but it is not infallible, and it doesn't justify any level of pricing. We need to be smart shoppers, too.

WhyFi

Stop it - we're talking about bicycle purchases and your logic has no place here.

Campag4life

Well yeah. Its always buyer beware for any product. Even pedigreed companies like Campy, BMW, Specialized etc are flawed. Any namebrand company has their share of lemons. In 2009 when Campy released Ultrashift, it was pretty awful and the same basic design has been tweaked and it is now great. Campy Power Shift cranks are kind of crummy. BMW has a long lineage of taking risks to upsell their product. I-drive back a few years which was a Microsoft electronic environment that ran most car electronic controls when released for their 7 series was a complete disaster. Dealers bought back vehicles they couldn't figure out how to fix because the architecture was so flawed. BMW had engine block failures because of liner-less Al engines that didn't play nice with American gasoline sulfur levers. Even Specialized and Trek have recalls. Buying product is largely a statistical gamble. The consumer has a higher probability of success with a name brand company is all...but no guarantee. Italian Fiat went out of business in America because of poor quality control and poor reliability. The cars were great when they ran. Now Fiat is trying to make a comeback in the US marketed under the Chrysler banner. For some Italy is synonomous with poor quality...not all. So even though reliability may not be their priority, performance can rarely be criticized...or form....Italians have great style which manifests in their products.

WhyFi

Well, since we're talking about Italian form, here's my amp

Campag4life

Very cool amp.

halfspeed

Incorrect. It has tubes.

WhyFi

I see what you did there.