Manarius

I have an example appropriate for this thread:

I was in the market for an entry level road bike. I saw an advertisement from a reputable online retailer for the 2013 Orbea Aqua TPX for 45% off retail. This was a savings of nearly $700 off the MSRP.

I found the same bike (size, model, everything) at one of the local LBS's around me still listed at MSRP. I didn't even bother to ask if they'd price match because there's no way they'd match that price.

Now, should I have spent nearly $700 more just to patronize the local shop? Should I have asked them for a discount and still paid more than I would have online? Personally, I think that's insanity. Unless they were going to make up for it in $700 worth of parts or labor (able to be quantified at sale), I see no justification for doing that. I try to shop at small businesses when I can as long as the prices are competitive. But, with that kind of money involved? I think that's an unfair expectation of the consumer.

cleansheet

If you are self sufficient in that you can perform at least 75% of the necessary mechinical work to your bike, and you can fit it yourself and you basically buy everything from the internet, then there is no reason for you to patronize the LBS. By all means buy it over the internet. When it actually comes time to bring it to the shop though, don't expect speedy service.

Manarius

Bikes are less complicated than cars and I have no problem working on cars, so a bike should be no problem.

I've had a problem with my bike that I haven't be able to resolve myself. I gain much satisfaction from repairing or modifying things.

RPK79

That argument comes up a lot in these discussions. Do shops really punish customers for not buying from them? Sounds fairly counter-intuitive especially when the service portion of the business brings better margins and more repeat business anyway...

Psimet2001 

I'd like to say that they don't. Well run ones most likely do not. Unfortunately though I receive newsletters where even the president of the NBDA routinely feels like it's his platform to educate IBD owners on how they should and how he does "deal with" people that aren't his customers but expect to be treated as such. It's an epidemic in the extremely outdated brick and mortar establishment. There has been more than once where I have simply had to put the newsletter down. It's painful how bad it really is.

That said most shops don't care where you got the bike. Maintenance work is maintenance work. The issue is normally when people buy bikes off the internet and then take it immediately to the shop because it has some sort of problem with it that wouldn't have been an issue if they had just bought from the shop initially. Many shops feel slighted and many view this situation as an "opportunity to educate" the customer about why it matters to buy from a shop.

Jay68442

I would have spoken to my LBS first about the deal I had found online and asked if they could come close. If they came close to 400-500 off I would have given them the business. If they would not budge I would have purchased online.

canam73

Personally, I think this thread has no more room for negotiation.

RPK79

I don't know. I think we can get another page or two out of it. Then, in a week or two we can repeat the process.

kv501

Steering this in a little simpler direction, but a question for non-big box, bike-related business owners (LBS, wheel builders, etc.)

Short preface:

I live in a rural area where the nearest LBS is over an hour and a half away. Thus, I don't do much business with bike shops. Not because I have an aversion to it (quite the opposite), but because 3 hours+ round trip doesn't make sense very often. I do my own mechanic work, and through building a couple aluminum bikes and one carbon bike bare frame-up, I can take care of most of it. That said...

I am planning on purchasing a new bike complete. I have decided where I'm going to order it (brick and mortar shop that I've visited a few times, good people) and when I called to get a price the owner gave me full MSRP, $5,200. I've made the decision that I'm buying it there and am not doing any pricing around. I can afford the MSRP so this isn't some sort of budgetary question. My question to people on the owner's end, am I going to come off as a dick if I go in and ask if he can do 5% if I pay cash? If he says no I'm still buying the bike, that decision's made, but I'm just curious as to what goes through your minds as owners if people ask for discounts (this one is small, in my opinion). If I need warranty service I don't want to go to the bottom of the priority/customer care list.

As a side bar and purely out of my own curiosity, if someone comes in the shop and lays down MSRP without a question, do you as an owner think:

1. There goes a sucker.

or

2. He's a good dude; let's take care of him.

or

3. Don't pay any attention to that either way.

The question stems from working in finance, and never wanting to leave the impression that I don't understand negotiation or that I'm haphazard with my money. Since this is a purchase in which I might someday have to go back to the shop, I also want to be thought of as a good customer. Maybe can't have both...

Thoughts?

dmcdam

I'm shopping for a new group set and spoke to my LBS about pricing compared to the internet. He told me that Shimano is coming out with new pricing for their B&M retailers that should make them much more competitive (within about $30 per component on average). That would mean about $250-$300 difference gross, minus shipping costs. I've committed to him if he can come close to that range then I'll buy from him. Either way he said he wouldn't have a problem building the bike up for me but he'll do it for free if I buy from him vs a shop charge on the internet order. Up until now his regular price was about double and he totally understands that much of a spread is impossible to justify.

Psimet2001 

Yeah, It's part of Shimano's plan to reduce distributors so that they have better price control. The thing is as our wholesale price goes down....someone else will get it cheaper as well and pass it along. The model is broken - never to be "fixed".

In other words your shop might have the best deal in about March or April - when Shimano will finally get everything fully running, but by may/June most of the typical internet discount locations will also have product for less. again.

dmcdam

Like anything I guess, it'll come down to how badly I want it and WHEN I want it. I'm willing to wait until March if my shop can get me a fair deal, but I won't be willing to wait until May or June so I'll probably have some buyers remorse. Best cure for that is to not look at prices after I've bought.

Psimet2001 

I hate to point out the obvious....but you can do that now....just sayin....

Woz

Without getting into the argument and just trying to answer the original question as simply as possible.

The average margin on a complete bike is 36% the average shop has a break even point of 36 meaning that they typically break even on a complete bike sale. Some stores operate much more efficiently or have more economy of scale than others and those stores have more room to play with pricing. Haggling is common in shops and there is no reason not to get the best deal you can so haggling is a good idea. If they don't want to talk about a discount on the bike, then pursue one on accessories that you might need.

dmcdam

I can but the spread on my LBS vs internet today is about $700-$800 and I have to save something left over so you can build me some killer wheels.

thunderworks

I owned a shop for 20 plus years - sold the store in 1994. It was a different world for retailers then. No internet, only catalog mail-order competition - so my experience with the modern business model is limited.

But regarding your questions . . . when customers came in, paid the number, didn't dicker or make you feel like you're weird for trying to make a profit . . . that customer was respected, treated royally, and probably received both the best service and the best pricing I could afford going forward.

roadwarrior

Should have been the end of the thread. The rest is noise.

Well said.

RPK79

The noise is what makes my work day go faster though.

roadwarrior

About the only time we get an issue is when someone DEMANDS warranty service and they bought the bike used. But it's a "have my cake and eat it too" approach. Cheaper bike used, there is no such thing as a free lunch. There have been a bunch of threads about that out here and it's kind of funny how people know the situation, then try to milk the system and get all pissed off when they get told "sorry"...

Who cares if it needs maintenance, we fix it regardless and cha-ching goes the cash register. Do a good job with service, they begin to see the value of working with professionals.

cwar

My experience has been as follows:

At my local Specialized shop I bought a current model year bike at full price. After that they always have offered 10% off on current model year bikes.

At another shop (Orbea) I bought a current model year bike and asked for 10% off and they gave it to me.

My local Specialized shop had their prior model year bikes (in stock only) at 50% off.

If I'm not in a hurry I just check the local shops every few days for sales (they are often listed on their websites). I was in the market for an 2014 Orbea Avant and just kept checking the local shops. When black Friday rolled around they had the 2014's at 25% off so I bought.

So, in my experience, if you have a relationship with a shop getting 10% off on the current model year seems like a given. If you don't have a relationship with the shop then asking for 10% off doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Or, just wait for a sale.

kps88

Not true. I negotiated a 15% discount on my 14 Super Six 3. Because they were flexible, a week later i ordered an FSA full cockpit (carbon seat post/stem and AL handlebar), Garmin 200, flail saddle bag and elite bottle cage holders.

If they were not will to work with me (and they were and had no issues), I would have bought the stuff online. If you want to spend full price, fine but don't call someone a d!ck because they don't.

RPK79

They probably would have come out ahead charging you full price.

tpy2010

A bike shop in DSM, ia has a yearly Spring sale where they sell last years bikes, and trade ins at a steep discount. Check and see if you LBS does the same thing. If you are adept at basic bike repair, there is a huge used market out there on the internet, Bike blogs, craig's list, ebay, amazon etc. Most lbs owners are business men, but they are also bike/trike enthusiasts and will work with any one who treats them decent, regardless of where the bike was purchased. On higher ticket bikes, I have always had the salesman offer me free incidentals such as a helmet, bottle holders, water bottles and even a blinking red light for the rear of the bike. They like repeat business.

kps88

No. I ordered my bike november. The negotiation was a price match. Another local dealer sells certain bikes for 15% off msrp. Not all, but many. Not sure why not all of them. However, my lbs always has a black Friday sale. 15% newest bike and 20% prior years. I couldn't wait because they only had one left available to order. At that time. Not sure if anymore were available. If they didn't match, I would have gone to other shop. They still made $ on me, bought more stuff and will continue. If you think they were better off getting me to buy msrp...well, you would be wrong. I don't throw $ out the window....maybe others do.

RPK79

Your original post came off sounding like you would have bought the bike at MSRP but went elsewhere for the accessories.