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  1. #1
    Disco Infiltrator Darth Lefty's Avatar
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    Exponential group set cost

    I was pricing out a group for my hypothetical bike and noticed something... the cost is exponential by level. These are the prices for the basic groups at http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk

    I admit faking this a little. Without the Ultegra Di2 there is a "missing link" at that price level. They don't presently have Dura Ace Di2 listed as a group, that's why it's missing. Campagnolo follows a similar trend though not as cleanly. They don't offer SRAM.

    Last edited by Darth Lefty; 01-14-14 at 07:30 AM. Reason: date fix

  2. #2
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    Obviously they keyed the pricing directly to the relative speed increase so it seems pretty logical.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    We need a Campagnolo chart so I can calculate my increased average speed if I upgrade.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  4. #4
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    Campy produces art, so the rules of physics do not apply.

  5. #5
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Campy produces art, so the rules of physics do not apply.
    You cannaugh break the laws of physics, Cap'n!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Man in Black
    Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

  6. #6
    South Carolina Ed
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    It must (inversely) track the percentages of people that exhibit increasingly irrational behavior.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    You cannaugh break the laws of physics, Cap'n!!
    You know that part in Dead Poets Society when they tear the chart out of their books? Campy did that.

  8. #8
    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    what an amazing discovery has been made here!



    Last edited by gc3; 01-14-14 at 06:00 AM.
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

    "I understand. I just don't care"

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    If ever there were a visual representation of diminishing returns, I think you have found it! Wouldn't it be more impressive on linear axes though with the big curve emphasizing the exponential nature?

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    Looks linear to me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlyAlfaRomeo View Post
    Looks linear to me.
    As I said earlier, the price chart is in direct proportion to the available speed increase. And as we all know, power increases as a square of the speed. So there is your exponent.

    Except Campy, which will go up in value after you die because it is art.

  12. #12
    Disco Infiltrator Darth Lefty's Avatar
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    Campagnolo. Again faked a little to make it look more convincing by leaving out the non-EPS versions

    Last edited by Darth Lefty; 01-14-14 at 07:41 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlyAlfaRomeo View Post
    Looks linear to me.
    Perhaps you are joking, but if not the y-axis is exponential, powers of 10.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    As I said earlier, the price chart is in direct proportion to the available speed increase. And as we all know, power increases as a square of the speed. So there is your exponent.

    Except Campy, which will go up in value after you die because it is art.
    I know you are joking, but just to be correct, increasing exponentially and increasing as the square or any power of a value are not the same.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    I know you are joking, but just to be correct, increasing exponentially and increasing as the square or any power of a value are not the same.
    You cannot be serious.

  16. #16
    Disco Infiltrator Darth Lefty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    If ever there were a visual representation of diminishing returns, I think you have found it! Wouldn't it be more impressive on linear axes though with the big curve emphasizing the exponential nature?
    Everything is more convincing on a log scale

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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    As I said earlier, the price chart is in direct proportion to the available speed increase. And as we all know, power increases as a square of the speed. So there is your exponent.

    Except Campy, which will go up in value after you die because it is art.
    Didn't see your comment until now but I stand by my statement. The chart itself is linear with the parameters the OP gave, exponential with the qualifier you added.

    +1 on the Campy bit.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Perhaps you are joking, but if not the y-axis is exponential, powers of 10.
    The increase between the low and high values isn't even an exponential increase, 100 squared = 10,000. the increases in value between gruppos is not even close.
    Last edited by CharlyAlfaRomeo; 01-14-14 at 08:11 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlyAlfaRomeo View Post
    The increase between the low and high values isn't even an exponential increase, 100 squared = 10,000. the increases in value between gruppos is not even close.
    Only the Campy chart is for gruppos. The other is for groupsets or groups, as crass as that sounds.

  20. #20
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    Lol. Well we are nitpicking here so I guess it's only fair.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlyAlfaRomeo View Post
    Didn't see your comment until now but I stand by my statement. The chart itself is linear with the parameters the OP gave, exponential with the qualifier you added.

    +1 on the Campy bit.
    The relationship depends upon the numbers not the way the chart looks. The numbers he provided (fudged as they are) define an exponential relationship. You can plot them on any kind of axes you want, and get different looking graphs. But it is still exponential.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlyAlfaRomeo View Post
    The increase between the low and high values isn't even an exponential increase, 100 squared = 10,000. the increases in value between gruppos is not even close.
    Exponential is the change from 100 to 1,000, i.e. 10e2 to 10e3 on one axis while a linear change occurs on the other axis. Actually since the x-axis is qualitative, not quantitative, there is no numerical relationship between them at all. So I will LOL too. But I get the gist of what OP was trying to say. Like you would number the groups (group sets, gruppos...) 1, 2, 3, ,4, 5...Then you plot that against the prices and get an exponential relationship. There is no squared relationship required for this situation to be exponential by definition.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Exponential is the change from 100 to 1,000, i.e. 10e2 to 10e3 on one axis while a linear change occurs on the other axis. Actually since the x-axis is qualitative, not quantitative, there is no numerical relationship between them at all. So I will LOL too. But I get the gist of what OP was trying to say. Like you would number the groups (group sets, gruppos...) 1, 2, 3, ,4, 5...Then you plot that against the prices and get an exponential relationship. There is no squared relationship required for this situation to be exponential by definition.
    Sram = 0, Shimano = 10, Campy = Beauty x infinity(infinity).

  24. #24
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    The high cost of cachet.
    Ride more. Fret less.

  25. #25
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    It's almost like someone thought out what they wanted the price to be. How dare they not make it the cost plus $1 or $2 so they can make money....

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