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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 02-21-14, 06:29 AM   #26
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I just use glue because it's much cheaper
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Old 02-21-14, 09:08 AM   #27
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I guess if I were gluing many sets of wheels, as in a team mechanic, I would probably have a container of mastic and a brush and just bang them out, one after another. But I have only my one set of tubulars, which I use to ride all the time but now they are my B wheels, and changing tires maybe once a year, Tufo tape is easier to use and I can right them immediately.
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Old 02-21-14, 09:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipp

Can you use TUFO® tape? Yes and no—in other words, at your own risk





http://www.zipp.com/support/maintena...are_88_188.php
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Old 02-21-14, 09:31 AM   #29
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glue
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Old 02-21-14, 10:10 AM   #30
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"Solvent, such as alcohol or acetone, works very well for removing most glue."

Alcohol? Maybe in conjunction with a wheelabrator.
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Old 02-21-14, 10:27 AM   #31
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"Solvent, such as alcohol or acetone, works very well for removing most glue."

Alcohol? Maybe in conjunction with a wheelabrator.
denatured alcohol is not the same as the isopropyl stuff you buy at cvs or the grocery store.

there's not a lot that won't get removed by denatured alcohol.
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Old 02-21-14, 10:44 AM   #32
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I've been gluing tubulars for decades with decent success, although, there was a learning curve. I tried the Tufo tape once just to check it out. I regularly use Veloflex tires but have tried many other brands. My tape installation was pretty straight forward but somehow I managed to suffer an intolerable execution. At one spot on the rim the tire would make a crunching or ripping sound as it rotated. The tape was not uniformly adhered. I tried repairing the install but never eliminated the problem. I' m sure the cause was my poor installation skills but I've since stuck with glue.
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Old 02-21-14, 10:59 AM   #33
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denatured alcohol is not the same as the isopropyl stuff you buy at cvs or the grocery store.

there's not a lot that won't get removed by denatured alcohol.
You assume to much. I've tried denatured along with acetone and several others. None have come close to how fast I can strip a wheel with judicial use of a heat gun and a table knife.
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Old 02-21-14, 07:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by arcticbiker View Post
I've been gluing tubulars for decades with decent success, although, there was a learning curve. I tried the Tufo tape once just to check it out. I regularly use Veloflex tires but have tried many other brands. My tape installation was pretty straight forward but somehow I managed to suffer an intolerable execution. At one spot on the rim the tire would make a crunching or ripping sound as it rotated. The tape was not uniformly adhered. I tried repairing the install but never eliminated the problem. I' m sure the cause was my poor installation skills but I've since stuck with glue.
There is a step in the taping which is sometimes overlooked, after you adhere the rim side of the tape to the rim, you then put on the tire (without removing the second plastic layer) and inflate it to 20-30psi, then moving around the rim you bed it in by rolling the tire a little bit from side to side and bouncing on the tyre a bit. This beds down the tape and makes sure the tyre alignment is spot on. I increase the pressure a tiny bit more, before removing the second plastic layer and allowing the tyre to adhere to the tape.

Never had the problem you encountered with the tape.

When you break it down the tape is just 2 thin layers of glue impregnated loose weave fabric and then a layer of extruded glue, in effect 3 layers of glue
The glue layers are a different composition probably to aid adhesion to either the rim or the cotton backing tape

Last edited by kleng; 02-21-14 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 02-21-14, 08:07 PM   #35
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kleng,

I'd be willing to try again using your method. I'll have to wear out one of my tires first. Maybe in the fall.
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Old 02-21-14, 09:36 PM   #36
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That's the way must be done, wonder if somebody is putting the tape in the rim, then removed the second tape and then started to mount the tubular EPIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleng View Post
There is a step in the taping which is sometimes overlooked, after you adhere the rim side of the tape to the rim, you then put on the tire (without removing the second plastic layer) and inflate it to 20-30psi, then moving around the rim you bed it in by rolling the tire a little bit from side to side and bouncing on the tyre a bit. This beds down the tape and makes sure the tyre alignment is spot on. I increase the pressure a tiny bit more, before removing the second plastic layer and allowing the tyre to adhere to the tape.

Never had the problem you encountered with the tape.

When you break it down the tape is just 2 thin layers of glue impregnated loose weave fabric and then a layer of extruded glue, in effect 3 layers of glue
The glue layers are a different composition probably to aid adhesion to either the rim or the cotton backing tape
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Old 02-22-14, 07:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by kleng View Post
There is a step in the taping which is sometimes overlooked, after you adhere the rim side of the tape to the rim, you then put on the tire (without removing the second plastic layer) and inflate it to 20-30psi, then moving around the rim you bed it in by rolling the tire a little bit from side to side and bouncing on the tyre a bit. This beds down the tape and makes sure the tyre alignment is spot on. I increase the pressure a tiny bit more, before removing the second plastic layer and allowing the tyre to adhere to the tape.

Never had the problem you encountered with the tape.

When you break it down the tape is just 2 thin layers of glue impregnated loose weave fabric and then a layer of extruded glue, in effect 3 layers of glue
The glue layers are a different composition probably to aid adhesion to either the rim or the cotton backing tape
qft.

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Old 02-22-14, 08:41 AM   #38
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You assume to much. I've tried denatured along with acetone and several others. None have come close to how fast I can strip a wheel with judicial use of a heat gun and a table knife.
VM&P Naptha. Not nearly as volatile as alcohol or acetone and a much better solvent for mastik. I still will buff the bulk off with a scotch brite style wheel in a drill press but then cleanup with Naptha is super easy, safe, and much less toxic.

Takes a few minutes instead of hours/days with a knife/tire lever. We always have tons to glue and Re-glue from flats so we have to get it done quick and well. People keep using us because of the end results and the reputation so while we have to get it done quickly we can't afford to ever have one roll. Ever.
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Old 02-22-14, 08:54 AM   #39
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VM&P Naptha. Not nearly as volatile as alcohol or acetone and a much better solvent for mastik. I still will buff the bulk off with a scotch brite style wheel in a drill press but then cleanup with Naptha is super easy, safe, and much less toxic.

Takes a few minutes instead of hours/days with a knife/tire lever. We always have tons to glue and Re-glue from flats so we have to get it done quick and well. People keep using us because of the end results and the reputation so while we have to get it done quickly we can't afford to ever have one roll. Ever.
I'm sure that works great for you. Apparently I'm faster than you with a butter knife as my method takes me about a half hour total including a final solvent clean up.

And I personally don't think I can afford to roll a tire either.
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Old 02-22-14, 09:28 AM   #40
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I'm sure that works great for you. Apparently I'm faster than you with a butter knife as my method takes me about a half hour total including a final solvent clean up.

And I personally don't think I can afford to roll a tire either.
Yup you must not either have as much glue to clean up or the adhesion to the rim is much lower.
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Old 02-22-14, 09:29 AM   #41
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Yup you must not either have as much glue to clean up or the adhesion to the rim is much lower.
Yup. Must be one of those.
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Old 03-12-14, 08:04 PM   #42
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I'm new to using tubular tires, but after careful research, I bought a set of Vittoria Corsa EVO CX III tires for road racing. I was very careful in following the instructions for gluing (using Mastik) and mounting, paying particular attention to tread direction. However, I just discoverd that, despite my careful attention, I mounted the rear tire backwards. Will it really matter? Do I need to un-glu, dismount the tire and remount it in the correct direction? I am hoping I can get away with it and not suffer any negative consequences. My first race in this Sunday.
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Old 03-12-14, 08:12 PM   #43
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It will make no difference at all. I've accidentally done that before and have never noticed any difference. If you're happy with the glue job, don't bother taking off the tire and regluing.
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Old 03-12-14, 08:21 PM   #44
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I'm new to using tubular tires, but after careful research, I bought a set of Vittoria Corsa EVO CX III tires for road racing. I was very careful in following the instructions for gluing (using Mastik) and mounting, paying particular attention to tread direction. However, I just discoverd that, despite my careful attention, I mounted the rear tire backwards. Will it really matter? Do I need to un-glu, dismount the tire and remount it in the correct direction? I am hoping I can get away with it and not suffer any negative consequences. My first race in this Sunday.
You'll only notice it in your mind.

I've done that a few times. The OCD part of me made me redo the tire, sometimes after a race or two, but for the standard herringbone tread there's so little effect with the tread that it won't make a difference. It's not like a car tire where it has to excavate water out from under the tire's contact patch. There's a formula for determining when a tire will hydroplane and for a road tire at 100 psi it's about 90-100 mph (it's related to psi).

To put things in perspective I've laced up a wheel, realized the rim is facing the wrong way relative to the hub, and undid it. I've also made the cross in the wrong place and relaced the wheel so the crosses line up with the valve or go across the rim seam, whatever my goal was for that particular wheel.
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Old 03-12-14, 09:04 PM   #45
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+3 - that rotation indicator is based on the "tread" and honestly that tread for the contact patch size is actually a non-thing.
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Old 03-13-14, 08:42 PM   #46
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The official word from a Vittoria rep I talked to today said, not only does it not matter, but many pros run the rear tire backward intentionally. It provides better traction for acceleration, sprinting, whole-shotting, and even a little more on corners. It might take an extra watt per mile though He also advised NOT to do it with the front, even though there's no diff in tire construction (plies). It would just be too non-aero in the front and just a tad too much drag, but the rear is perfectly fine and even advisable for Cavendish and Sagan types
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Old 03-14-14, 04:05 AM   #47
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^Nice.
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Old 03-14-14, 08:04 PM   #48
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So in a sense, it turns out my mistake is actually a preferred thing for many pros. However, I am not a sprinter. I'm a climber. Oh well... after a few races, they'll practically be slicks anyway
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