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-   -   Brifters vs. Downtube shifters (http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/936553-brifters-vs-downtube-shifters.html)

RollCNY 03-17-14 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Tom (Post 16585805)
Yeah, I was trying to illustrate that above. I'm in a bike shop, looking at NEW bikes, and a couple of the drop-bar road bikes aren't interesting to me because they have shifters.

If you used the word "brifter" in the LBS, would they know what you are talking about? Bikeforums.net is the only place I have ever seen the word, and I spend far too much time in several local LBSs. I have never heard the word said aloud.

RPK79 03-17-14 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollCNY (Post 16585852)
If you used the word "brifter" in the LBS, would they know what you are talking about? Bikeforums.net is the only place I have ever seen the word, and I spend far too much time in several local LBSs. I have never heard the word said aloud.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Brif...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

It is used elsewhere.

merlinextraligh 03-17-14 01:15 PM

^ see the far reaching effect of the 41 !

RollCNY 03-17-14 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPK79 (Post 16585861)

Thank you for all of the internet forum and wikipedia entries. None of these change the fact that I have never heard it used in an LBS. I am not saying that I am an expert, only that the word is not ubiquitous.

RPK79 03-17-14 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollCNY (Post 16585888)
Thank you for all of the internet forum and wikipedia entries. None of these change the fact that I have never heard it used in an LBS. I am not saying that I am an expert, only that the word is not ubiquitous.

Not sure what else I could do short of walking into an LBS with a hidden camera and asking them about brifters...

banerjek 03-17-14 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollCNY (Post 16585888)
Thank you for all of the internet forum and wikipedia entries. None of these change the fact that I have never heard it used in an LBS. I am not saying that I am an expert, only that the word is not ubiquitous.

There are a number of reasons why you wouldn't necessarily expect to hear that word as well as certain other bike jargon in an LBS.

joe932 03-17-14 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPK79 (Post 16585939)
Not sure what else I could do short of walking into an LBS with a hidden camera and asking them about brifters...

:thumb:

rjones28 03-17-14 01:38 PM

I'm pretty sure that if I walk into a bike shop and ask for a set of Dura-Ace shifters they are going to be thinking...

this:

http://images1.excelcycle.com/images...d-shifters.jpg

not this

http://www.bikepartsplace.com/images/med/31701444.jpg

joe932 03-17-14 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjones28 (Post 16585979)
I'm pretty sure that if I walk into a bike shop and ask for a set of Dura-Ace shifters they are going to be thinking...

Especially if you say Dura Ace brifters. :roflmao2:

banerjek 03-17-14 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjones28 (Post 16585979)
I'm pretty sure that if I walk into a bike shop and ask for a set of Dura-Ace shifters they are going to be thinking...

Unless they do a lot of business with tri geeks or 'bent riders, though they'd go bar end rather than DT :p

Long Tom 03-17-14 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollCNY (Post 16585852)
If you used the word "brifter" in the LBS, would they know what you are talking about? Bikeforums.net is the only place I have ever seen the word, and I spend far too much time in several local LBSs. I have never heard the word said aloud.

I'd be embarrassed to say it aloud, 'tis true! :)

Same with "gruppo".

rjones28 03-17-14 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Tom (Post 16586285)
I'd be embarrassed to say it aloud, 'tis true! :)

Same with "gruppo".

Even Campagnolo says "groupset" on their English language site. The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling

joe932 03-17-14 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjones28 (Post 16586330)
Even Campagnolo says "groupset" on their English language site. The official Campagnolo web site - Bicycle Parts and Components Cycling

You mean Campy. :)

joe932 03-17-14 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina (Post 16584500)
The video states that integrated shifting can only change one gear at a time while DT shifters can sweep gears. This is incorrect, as I pointed put, as Campagnolo also has this capability. The poster is clearly not familiar with this fact.

Campy Super Record brifters allow 3 upshifts at a time or 5 downshifts at a time.

Dura Ace downtube shifters allows 9 upshifts at a time and 9 downshifts at a time.

And very few bikes have Campy Super Record. The vast majority of brifters allow only 1 upshift at a time.

Bob Dopolina 03-17-14 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe932 (Post 16585618)
redlube, the video clearly stated that I was shifting much more often than practical for the purpose of demonstration. Had I shifted every five minutes, the video would not had served its purpose.

You shifting didn't follow you gear inch progression. With a 6 speed freewheel, where one could change cogs to suit the terrain, that was kind of important.

joe932 03-17-14 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina (Post 16586395)
You shifting didn't follow you gear inch progression. With a 6 speed freewheel, where one could change cogs to suit the terrain, that was kind of important.

I understand your point, but in reality, most racers stay in the big chainring unless there is a long climb. And "modern" downtube shifters are 8-speed or 10-speed.

Bob Dopolina 03-17-14 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 16585639)
"Brifter" refers to the combination of a brake lever and shifter. "Shifter" is a term that includes downtube shifters. And stem shifters. And grip shifters. And anything else that might have been cooked up at some point in history. It's a new word that accurately and succinctly describes a specific type of component, across different brands.

Not that I expect to persuade you, of course.

I'm going to drop the "brifter" thing for now as it isn't the real point of the thread but, before I do, I'll just point out that it doesn't make anything any clearer.

If you are talking with anyone who has even a passing knowledge of bikes then shifter would be understood to mean what 90%+ of all non mass merchant road bikes are equipped with: integrated levers. There would be no confusion. With either you may have to clarify which brand if it is relevant to the conversation.

If, however, you are running something other than integrated shifteers, this would have to be stated and defined as it is pretty much an anomaly at this point.

If I say I have a car you would rightly assume it has four wheels because that is, by far, the norm even though there are three wheeled cars out there. If you were talking about a three wheeled car you would certainly need to point that out as that is not what the listener would assume when they heard the word car.

Brifter doesn't add any clarity at all to the conversation. It is just a dumb word that some Fred dreamed up and thought he was being clever.

joe932 03-17-14 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina (Post 16586423)
Brifter doesn't add any clarity at all to the conversation. It is just a dumb word that some Fred dreamed up and thought he was being clever.

You don't like slang like "brifter" but you like slang like "fred".

By the way, are you a cat 2 racer?

fietsbob 03-17-14 03:50 PM

If it does not matter to you which, then it wont matter ..

Bob Dopolina 03-17-14 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe932 (Post 16586403)
I understand your point, but in reality, most racers stay in the big chainring unless there is a long climb. And "modern" downtube shifters are 8-speed or 10-speed.

Then you don't understand gear progression. Have a look at your gearing and grab a gear inch chart. There are overlaps and there is a point where you would drop onto the little ring as opposed to staying in the big ring and shifting one more cog in the back.

Lots of races, and rides for that matter, happen outside of flat industrial park crits where you only need the big ring. I was more referring to the good ole days when DT shifting was the norm and double shifting was what was done because there were much fewer physical choices with a 6 speed freewheel.

joe932 03-17-14 03:53 PM

Like I said, I understood what you meant, but even in the 80's, even with 6-speed freewheels, most racers did not shift the way you are describing.

Bob Dopolina 03-17-14 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe932 (Post 16586441)
You don't like slang like "brifter" but you like slang like "fred".

By the way, are you a cat 2 racer?

Again, Fred denotes something specific. It is a useful term.

I stopped racing a few years ago. I rode at or above Cat 2 for a couple of decades and have ridden or raced in more than a dozen countries on three continents.

That doesn't make my opinion any more valid, it is still just an opinion.

Bob Dopolina 03-17-14 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe932 (Post 16586470)
Like I said, I understood what you meant, but even in the 80's, even with 6-speed freewheels, most racers did not shift the way you are describing.

Yes we did.

RPK79 03-17-14 03:57 PM

Remember when this was about a guy trying to choose between a bike with DT shifters and a bike with an integrated shifter and brake lever combination? Yeah, that was, like, two weeks ago...

joe932 03-17-14 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina (Post 16586482)
Yes we did.

Whatever. I dont know why you need to be so argumentative. My video agrees with you that racers need brifters. My point is that non-racers do just fine with downtube shifters. They just need to go on about 10 rides with them before they are competent with them. And they do not need to learn rear friction shifting like you and I had to.


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