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  1. #326
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    Lets break it down from your own statement:
    1) "only the past few years that auto mileage has been able to match standard", so today they are better but you live in the past?
    2)"only 3.6% of cars sold in the US (2012 data) are standard is no indication of superiority of automatics", I guess everyone is crazy? You are part of the special 0% that drive one speed cars?
    Nothing wrong with living in the past when it comes to biking.


    it's a bike, not rocket science.
    "...this place is to trolling as salt licks are to deer hunting." - 3alarmer

  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    Greg , your statements are reasonable and rational I think we are on the same page. Our friend Roll however is trying to tell us that he can ride up and hills as effectively and efficiently on a single speed bike as a bike with gears. That is just false!

    Next he will be telling us that his bike got a flat and he has found that he run almost as fast and has given up cycling. This is followed by the fact that his house was lost and he prefers being a caveman. Why farm when you can hunt? Why have tools when you have two hand and stones.

    Does he drink a lot?
    I think you may have misread his comments on SS. He said he prefers the simplicity of riding a SS and said he doesn't ride as hard (i.e. fast) on the SS as on a geared bike.

    I contemplated getting a SS for commuting in the winter just because of how hard the rain and muck is on my drivetrain. I think it would be harder on my knees but I could probably manage OK. I would definitely be slower though!

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    I think you may have misread his comments on SS. He said he prefers the simplicity of riding a SS and said he doesn't ride as hard (i.e. fast) on the SS as on a geared bike.

    I contemplated getting a SS for commuting in the winter just because of how hard the rain and muck is on my drivetrain. I think it would be harder on my knees but I could probably manage OK. I would definitely be slower though!
    Greg, once again I agree with you and if that is what Roll meant that is fine to.

    This statement from another member is just waxing poetic :

    Nothing wrong with living in the past when it comes to biking.

    It's a bike, not rocket science.

    Why not just use solid rubber tires and reduce the chances of flats.

  4. #329
    Mostly Harmless rjones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    More effectively or efficiently?
    yes
    Quote Originally Posted by truckstop View Post
    getting banned from trollheim. does that mean you win?

  5. #330
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    Greg, once again I agree with you and if that is what Roll meant that is fine to.

    This statement from another member is just waxing poetic :

    Nothing wrong with living in the past when it comes to biking.

    It's a bike, not rocket science.

    Why not just use solid rubber tires and reduce the chances of flats.
    Do they still make solid rubber tires?


    Ultimate efficiency is overrated.
    "...this place is to trolling as salt licks are to deer hunting." - 3alarmer

  6. #331
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    @gregf83, the more I thought on your analogy, the more I agree with the parallel. You can drive an automatic exerting less energy from the human perspective. There are fewer motions required to make it drive efficiently and effectively, and the same is true with STI's. Standard transmissions are not about maximizing mileage, but really about the experience. So sorry if I failed to get that up front, or seemed argumentative. I have always owned standards, because I enjoy them, and think they are safer in winter weather. Automatic and CVT transmissions have come a long way, and I don't mean to speak to diminish that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man in Black
    Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

  7. #332
    Still can't climb
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    i have difficulty changing gears with dt levers when going uphill.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

    No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack

  8. #333
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    Single speed advantages: The ultimate in simplicity. No shifters. No derailleurs.

    Single speed disadvantages: Very bad for climbing. On a long steep climb, you will have to weave back and forth or walk. You will also have a hard time keeping up with your buddies if there is a strong tailwind because they will be in a much larger gear than you.

    Brifter advantages: You can shift while in the drops, which is important for racers. You don't have to move your hand to shift when on the hoods (but you do have to move your hand to shift when on the tops). You can shift while standing.

    Brifter disadvantages: Heavier. Expensive. Cluttered. Longer cable causes a split-second delay between clicking the shifter and the chain moving. Bikes that come with brifters cannot accept downtube shifters in the future.

    Downtube shifter advantages: Cheap. Clean. Very hard to damage. Crisp shifts due to shorter cable. Easy to use once you get used to them. Many downtube shifters have a friction mode which is compatible with all derailleurs and cassettes. You can shift 9 gears at a time.

    Downtube shifter disadvantages: Not optimal for racing because you cannot shift while sprinting in the drops.

  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    i have difficulty changing gears with dt levers when going uphill.
    If you want to downshift while climbing, just pedal faster for a second, and then pedal slower and shift. It will shift nicely when there is no pressure on the chain.

  10. #335
    Still can't climb
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    how about if standing on the pedals?
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

    No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack

  11. #336
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    @v70cat, I am not meaning to say, and don't think that I have said, that SS or DT is superior to integrated. They are just different. And I hated my SS up front. I bought it for the exact reasons Greg listed (crappy weather commuting) and was wholely unsatisfied with it. You can't ride it like a geared bike because you will always be in the wrong gear. And most $500 or less single speeds have crappy components that were picked to meet the "hipster" look.

    It was only by accident that I found myself bike less, and started doing long rides on it. And I whined incessantly about it at first. Then someone I respected told me point blank to zip it. I chose to ride it, so I should either ride it and embrace it (and shut up about it) or fix my geared bike. I did both. My SS is no longer a cheap SS: it has hand built wheels, and better freewheel, and bars, levers and saddle tweaked to me. I've had it professionally fit, and its position is comfortable and aggressive. It is different than a geared bike, but not bad different. People have asked me if they should get one for training, and my answer is only if you want to learn bad habits. It has hurt my geared riding, because I don't ride as hard.

    Also, you may mean the "our friend Roll" comment as a barb, but I am by no means meaning anything mean spirited or untoward in my comments. I consider BF a conversation among friendly people with different opinions. I have intended no insult toward yours. And you asked about my dog in the Addiction thread. I had to have her put down, so some of my conversation here is simply distraction. Thanks for asking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man in Black
    Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

  12. #337
    Chaulky chaulky61's Avatar
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    Not relevant for the OP, but I have opted for DT shifters rather STI on a recent steel build which the goal was to come in at sub - 16.5 pds. Saved almost 100 grams using DTs over integrated.
    "You were the crash" - W.S.

  13. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollCNY View Post
    @v70cat, I am not meaning to say, and don't think that I have said, that SS or DT is superior to integrated. They are just different. And I hated my SS up front. I bought it for the exact reasons Greg listed (crappy weather commuting) and was wholely unsatisfied with it. You can't ride it like a geared bike because you will always be in the wrong gear. And most $500 or less single speeds have crappy components that were picked to meet the "hipster" look.

    It was only by accident that I found myself bike less, and started doing long rides on it. And I whined incessantly about it at first. Then someone I respected told me point blank to zip it. I chose to ride it, so I should either ride it and embrace it (and shut up about it) or fix my geared bike. I did both. My SS is no longer a cheap SS: it has hand built wheels, and better freewheel, and bars, levers and saddle tweaked to me. I've had it professionally fit, and its position is comfortable and aggressive. It is different than a geared bike, but not bad different. People have asked me if they should get one for training, and my answer is only if you want to learn bad habits. It has hurt my geared riding, because I don't ride as hard.

    Also, you may mean the "our friend Roll" comment as a barb, but I am by no means meaning anything mean spirited or untoward in my comments. I consider BF a conversation among friendly people with different opinions. I have intended no insult toward yours. And you asked about my dog in the Addiction thread. I had to have her put down, so some of my conversation here is simply distraction. Thanks for asking.
    Roll, I do think the 41 is a friendly place for people to discuss different opinions. Your opinions seemed so different that they appeared arbitrary and capricious but it seems that you have your reasons. I think an SS might be good for bad weather or a low cost commuter but will never understand why you would ride it on a century if you had the ability to ride another bike.

    So sorry for the loss of your dog, pets are a special part of life and I feel your loss.
    Last edited by v70cat; 03-23-14 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    how about if standing on the pedals?
    You cannot shift downtube shifters while standing. Just sit down for a second and shift.

  15. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaulky61 View Post
    Not relevant for the OP, but I have opted for DT shifters rather STI on a recent steel build which the goal was to come in at sub - 16.5 pds. Saved almost 100 grams using DTs over integrated.
    Lance occasionally used a left downtube shifter during mountain stages.....

    lance.jpg

  16. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Lance occasionally used a left downtube shifter during mountain stages.....

    lance.jpg
    But he was on dope.

  17. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Brifter disadvantages: Heavier. Expensive. Cluttered. Longer cable causes a split-second delay between clicking the shifter and the chain moving.

    Downtube shifter advantages: Cheap. Clean. Very hard to damage. Crisp shifts due to shorter cable.
    Any delay due to a slightly longer cable is more than compensated by not having to move your hand to shift.

    Also, old racers learned to shift downtube shifters with their knees when sprinting.

  18. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    But he was on dope.
    I was originally going to call him "doper Lance" but I wasn't sure if there are Lance lovers on this thread.

  19. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    Any delay due to a slightly longer cable is more than compensated by not having to move your hand to shift.
    Unless you are on the tops.

  20. #345
    Still can't climb
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    no one loves lance.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

    No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack

  21. #346
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    Actually, lots of people still do. Read the comments on any Lance video on Youtube.

  22. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Unless you are on the tops.
    Of course, but anyone riding on the tops won't care about an extra 4mS of shifter delay

  23. #348
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post

    Downtube shifter disadvantages: Not optimal for racing because you cannot shift while sprinting in the drops.
    Also, you can't shift while out of the saddle climbing, and even in the saddle climbing it's awkward if it's a tough climb. Nothing to do with racing.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  24. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
    even in the saddle climbing it's awkward if it's a tough climb.
    Not if you are good at it. Learning to do so is easier than learning stick shift in a car.

    If it's a tough climb, you are only going to be using your smallest gear anyway. No shifting until you reach the top.
    Last edited by joe932; 03-23-14 at 05:44 PM.

  25. #350
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Not if you are good at it. Learning to do so is easier than learning stick shift in a car.

    If it's a tough climb, you are only to be using your smallest gear anyway. No shifting until you reach the top. .
    Silly statement. That's exactly the benefit of integrated shifters... shifting while climbing

    Of course you can get from point a to point b with downtube shifters. I used them for many years, as good as anyone using them, including fairly high level racing. But integrated shifters are more convenient ... no getting around it.

    The advantage depends somewhat on one's style of riding. If you shift into your easiest gear until you get to the top, then it makes less difference. For a more aggressive rider who wants to change gears as the pitch of the climb changes then it's a big difference.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 03-23-14 at 05:58 PM.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

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