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  1. #376
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    The more expensive cycling becomes, the fewer new athletes it will attract.

    Think about it. A high school cross country runner needs $100 for a pair of running shoes. A high school newbie bike racer needs at least $2,000 for cycling equipment. No wonder cycling is an obscure sport in the USA.
    You can get a race worthy starter bike under $1000. Add in helmet, shoes, clothing etc .... yes, it adds up. But many sports/hobbies are expensive. Integrated shifters are not the problem. Going way back to post #1 , there was a $50 price difference between the bikes.

    Maybe you can ban clipless pedals, since we know they don't make any difference either ... that should save a few more $$... Running shoes & platform pedals

    Here in CT there's a group actively trying to get juniors involved and many of us have donated cash or clothing to help them out.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 03-23-14 at 07:30 PM.
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  2. #377
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    The invention of the light bulb is an example of innovation.
    Are we still using the same bulbs? No. The light bulb continues to evolve.

    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Creating $10,000 bikes just to keep up with other $10,000 bikes is not innovation. All that matters in bike racing is who is in the best shape, not who has the most expensive bike.
    You don't need some imaginary 10k bike to have integrated shifting. You can have it for much, much less. So what is your point, really?

    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    It's like putting rocket boosters on marathon runners. There is no point in doing so.
    What does that even mean?

    And why do you think you should be able to tell me, or anyone else, what I can or can't buy? What I need or don't need? What I should want or not want? If I want and can affoard your 10k bike then it is my absolute right to run out and buy it regardless of what your personal preferences are.

    You keep making these absurd statements about how integrated shifting is not superior to DT shifting from a performance standpoint. I really don't understand what you are trying to accomplish beyond perhaps justifying your own purchasing decisons.
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  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
    Going way back to post #1 , there was a $50 price difference between the bikes.
    Have you tried Shimano 2200 brifters? They are pretty crappy. And you can't upshift from the drops.


    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
    Maybe you can ban clipless pedals, since we know they don't make any difference either ... that should save a few more $$... Running shoes & platform pedals
    Clipless pedals are not faster than toe straps and clips. They are just easier to use and more comfortable because they don't impede foot circulation.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    Are we still using the same bulbs? No. The light bulb continues to evolve.
    Most state of the art bulbs suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    You don't need some imaginary 10k bike to have integrated shifting. You can have it for much, much less. So what is your point, really?
    The point is that most cyclists are OBSESSED with making cycling as easy as possible. No offense, but stop being such p*ssies. Just get a durable bike and ride like hell. The only cyclists who need state of the art equipment are pros, and they get their equipment for free. And you have to be willing to blood dope to become a pro anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    And why do you think you should be able to tell me, or anyone else, what I can or can't buy? What I need or don't need? What I should want or not want? If I want and can affoard your 10k bike then it is my absolute right to run out and buy it regardless of what your personal preferences are.
    I'm not a liberal. I'm a corporation-loving capitalist. If you want to buy expensive bikes, go right ahead, but to tell newbies that they must buy fancy bikes to make cycling as easy as possible is just plain bad advice. Cycling is supposed to be hard. If you want an easy sport, take up bowling.

    Bob, which brand and model bike would you recommend to a newbie?
    Last edited by joe932; 03-23-14 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #380
    Mostly Harmless rjones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    It's like putting rocket boosters on marathon runners. There is no point in doing so.
    What do you mean, no point? I would totally get into marathon running, if there were rocket boosters involved.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
    What do you mean, no point? I would totally get into marathon running, if there were rocket boosters involved.
    You have a point.

  7. #382
    Mostly Harmless rjones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    You have a point.
    8 to go

  8. #383
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Who is telling newbies they need $10,000 bikes ? I built up a very race worthy bike for $1300 including 50mm carbon tubulars. Careful shopping around and some lightly used parts. That is my good bike. I fall squarely in the "good enough" camp.

    It's not about the bike, but that doesn't stop some parts from being quantifiably better than others.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 03-23-14 at 08:05 PM.
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  9. #384
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    The point is that most cyclists are OBSESSED with making cycling as easy as possible. No offense, but stop being such p*ssies. Just get a durable bike and ride like hell. The only cyclists who need state of the art equipment are pros, and they get their equipment for free. And you have to be willing to blood dope to become a pro anyway.
    "It doesn't get easier, you just go faster."

    Need vs want?

    My bike is plenty durable and I ride the crap out of it. I ride a carbon bike with SR. I have carbon wheels and alloy wheels which I use based on conditions. I like my equipment and nothing you have said has made me want to go buy an alloy bike with DT shifters. I just don't see the appeal.

    No-one has ever suggested I was a p*ssy during a ride especially not with regards to my equipment choices. Now you're just talking nonsense.
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  10. #385
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    Bob, what bike model would you recommend to a newbie?

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    No-one has ever suggested I was a p*ssy during a ride especially not with regards to my equipment choices. Now you're just talking nonsense.
    You make bikes with downtube shifters sound like bikes that have a 50-pound iron plate dragging behind them. They are not hard to learn.

  12. #387
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Bob, what bike model would you recommend to a newbie?
    I would recommend a nice used bike off Ebay or Craigslist for a Newbie. Even brand new CAAD 8 start at $870 msrp. Shop around for a sale, or last years model & good to go. Shimano is replacing 2300 with "Claris" that looks like it shifts the same way as higher level groups.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 03-23-14 at 08:21 PM.
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  13. #388
    Mostly Harmless rjones28's Avatar
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    The Little 500 would be more entertaining, if the riders had to drag 50 pound weights behind their bikes.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
    The Little 500 would be more entertaining, if the riders had to drag 50 pound weights behind their bikes.
    Eh, I would only watch the women's race if that were the case.

  15. #390
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    You make bikes with downtube shifters sound like bikes that have a 50-pound iron plate dragging behind them. They are not hard to learn.
    I learned to ride and race on FRICTION DT shifters. I then graduated to indexed DT shifters and finally integrated shifting. I think I have this covered.
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  16. #391
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Bob, what bike model would you recommend to a newbie?
    Whatever the heck they want and can afford as long as it fits correctly.
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  17. #392
    Member jdowdy411's Avatar
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    And almost 400 posts later...The automatic vs. manual transmission car argument has been used twice like 200 posts apart. Is that when a thread becomes redundant? Either way, still very amusing. My most popular started thread so far haha.

  18. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    My bike is plenty durable and I ride the crap out of it. I ride a carbon bike with SR. I have carbon wheels and alloy wheels which I use based on conditions
    Why stop there? Why not get a fairing? Think how easy cycling will be then.

    cervelowraamfairing2.jpg

    Better yet, get a pass to a bus that has a bike rack. Think how easy cycling will be then.

    Bike-Bus-Rack.jpg
    Last edited by joe932; 03-23-14 at 08:39 PM.

  19. #394
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdowdy411 View Post
    And almost 400 posts later...The automatic vs. manual transmission car argument has been used twice like 200 posts apart. Is that when a thread becomes redundant? Either way, still very amusing. My most popular started thread so far haha.
    You have done well
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  20. #395
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
    I would recommend a nice used bike off Ebay or Craigslist for a Newbie. Even brand new CAAD 8 start at $870 msrp. Shop around for a sale, or last years model & good to go. Shimano is replacing 2300 with "Claris" that looks like it shifts the same way as higher level groups.
    I would recommend a $700-1000 bike with Sora/Tiagra level.

    I disagree with recommending a used bike to a newbie. Used bike+newbie is just a bad combination, since they don't know what to look for. By the time I got done fixing/upgrading my "cheap" used bike, I was over the MSRP of a new bike. The new bike would've included shop support and been lighter and better. On top of that, it took me a long time to get it problem adjusted so it usually shifted like crap. Nothing that a shop trip couldn't cure, but that kills the cheap aspect.

    It wasn't like I was doing big upgrades either, but by the time you get new saddle, tires, chain, tape, brake pads, cables, and a few other things the cheap bike isn't so cheap.

    There are great deals out there on used bikes, the problem is you have to know what to look for. A newbie by definition doesn't know how to properly evaluate a bike.

  21. #396
    Mostly Harmless rjones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Eh, I would only watch the women's race if that were the case.
    4 to go

  22. #397
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Why stop there? Why not get a fairing? Think how easy cycling will be then.

    cervelowraamfairing2.jpg

    Better yet, get a pass to a bus that has a bike rack. Think how easy cycling will be then.

    Bike-Bus-Rack.jpg
    Why not tie a brick to your bike to make it much more manly than it is now?

    Heck why do you need TWO crank arms? Using two legs just makes it easier, non? Real men only use ONE leg...and ony ride up hill...into the wind...in snow up to here...both ways...

    So, big strong burly man, what cat do you race? Or have ever raced? Since you are so burly man strong and all.
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  23. #398
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Racing, schmacing. Who cares what racers are doing.
    "Even people opposed to religion need calm minds and compassion to make their work more effective."

  24. #399
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Racing, schmacing. Who cares what racers are doing.
    Racers and fans of racing do.

    If you want to talk about how fast you are it is the only way to really gauge your abilities. Stava is a poor substitute as it is racing in a vacuum and without all the additional factors involved in direct competition.

    If you don't care how fast you are or aren't then it doesn't matter at all other than it drives a lot of material and design work that finds it way into broader, non racing products and applications.
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  25. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe932 View Post
    Why stop there? Why not get a fairing? Think how easy cycling will be then.

    cervelowraamfairing2.jpg

    Better yet, get a pass to a bus that has a bike rack. Think how easy cycling will be then.

    Bike-Bus-Rack.jpg
    I'm sure you thought all those other Cat 3 racers were cheating while you got dropped on your fixed gear. You did race fixed right? Because that's how all the original hard men did it.

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