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  1. #451
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    - more like slow, sloppy and ugly.
    ...that's what she said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat
    Only a few find the way, some don't recognize it when they do - some... don't ever want to.

  2. #452
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    I was underwhelmed when trying sti's when they were first introduced. The extra weight was immediately noticeable: the steering felt a bit more ponderous compared to my dt shifter bike. The oversized hoods looked unsightly. I didn't like bending the brake/shift lever inward.

    Theoretically, being able to shift and brake simultaneously, and being able to do so without taking one's hands off the handlebar seemed ideal, but the execution just seemed very awkward. I tried it again on the 2010 models and STI seemed quite a bit nicer.

    I think I'd prefer to be able to shift without moving the brake levers. Will take a look at sram and campy. Well, probably not campy since they're not spec'ed on a lot of bikes in the under $1500 range.

    I'm sure by 2014 sti is quite nice. I find it a bit strange that there is still no consensus on how to make 'ergonomically correct' brake and shift levers after all this time.

  3. #453
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Some people just don't like barends. The original gripshifts were made specifically for road bars, right diameter and everything. They had better acceptance in Tri - geek circles though.
    The issue is that it is not enough old school.

  4. #454
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    I'm sure by 2014 sti is quite nice. I find it a bit strange that there is still no consensus on how to make 'ergonomically correct' brake and shift levers after all this time.
    Everyone is different. So what is preferable to me may be subpar to you. Campy is the best of the bunch though.

  5. #455
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    The issue is that it is not enough old school.
    6-speed seems pretty old-school to me.





    But I'll be danged, they made it all the way to 8-speed!



    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  6. #456
    Senior Member Drakonchik's Avatar
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    One of my Suntour Command Shifter salads! When it comes to shifting I like to vary my diet.

    IMG_0718.jpgIMG_0721.jpg
    Last edited by Drakonchik; 03-28-14 at 08:55 AM.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakonchik View Post
    Suntour Command Shifter salad!

    IMG_0718.jpgIMG_0721.jpg
    I had a suntour briffters on a rental and they were hard to use.

  8. #458
    Senior Member Drakonchik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    I had a suntour briffters on a rental and they were hard to use.
    This configuration makes it easy, though possibly not for folks with small hands.

    Right side is 8-speed indexed, running a slightly modified Shimano 8 speed cassette.

    Left side is a rear 6 speed Command Shifter that operates the front derailleur. Results in the easiest triple ring shifting I've ever enjoyed. Personally I operate 9 different shifting systems on the 10 different bikes under my roof.

    I don't operate any downtube shifters, though I have done so in the past. Personally, I am of the opinion that if I were meant to operate downtube shifters efficiently, physiologically speaking I would need to have little appendages growing out of my kneecaps.
    Last edited by Drakonchik; 03-28-14 at 09:08 AM.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    Everyone is different. So what is preferable to me may be subpar to you. Campy is the best of the bunch though.
    Aren't they using thumb shifters though? Isn't this essentially the same design of the non-STI sora design which was decried as not ergonomically correct?

    Personally, I thought sora with thumb shifters was pretty darn slick. It worked very well as far as I could tell.

    However, it seems like there is a double standard for campy parts vs. shimano parts. It seems like the campy acolytes are campy acolytes for it's own sake: praising everything campy does and decrying every shimano. Their loyalty is not based on rational or technical criteria, but is due to the simple fact that campy is campy. It's quite weird.

    I would suggest that debates over component groups is often not rational at all: "oooh, campy is italian and exotic and shiny" vs. "ugh, shimano is japanese and utilitarian and has no 'soul.'" WTF? People actually apparently believe this!

    Never mind that campy will screw you if you ever have a warranty issue, and will only repair instead of replace, and that this repair may take weeks or months, whereas shimano and sram usually send out a no questions asked replacement within a couple of days. Oh no, that's because campy is small and emphasizes quality control. It's insanity.

    It's insanity.
    Last edited by roadandmountain; 03-28-14 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #460
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    It is superficially similar to Sora in external design. But it works more better. And anyone without freakishly small hands can shift from the drops without moving their hands. Although, I had a bike with 2300 and I could shift from the drops with about 1 inch of hand movement. It was substantially simpler than moving one's hand to DT shifters, for example.

    In regards to your opinions on Campy, I'm just gonna say that they are ignorant and uninformed. It is your right as an American to hold opinions about matters you know nothing about, but it don't make you sound smart or anything.
    Last edited by rebel1916; 03-28-14 at 03:11 PM.

  11. #461
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    Aren't they using thumb shifters though? Isn't this essentially the same design of the non-STI sora design which was decried as not ergonomically correct?
    No, the Sora button was too high to be reached from the drops (so I have heard)

    Personally, I thought sora with thumb shifters was pretty darn slick. It worked very well as far as I could tell.

    However, it seems like there is a double standard for campy parts vs. shimano parts. It seems like the campy acolytes are campy acolytes for it's own sake: praising everything campy does and decrying every shimano. Their loyalty is not based on rational or technical criteria, but is due to the simple fact that campy is campy. It's quite weird.
    There are many of us that own & like Campy. We have never said there's anything wrong with Shimano or SRAM


    I would suggest that debates over component groups is often not rational at all: "oooh, campy is italian and exotic and shiny" vs. "ugh, shimano is japanese and utilitarian and has no 'soul.'" WTF? People actually apparently believe this! According to you

    Never mind that campy will screw you if you ever have a warranty issue, and will only repair instead of replace, and that this repair may take weeks or months, whereas shimano and sram usually send out a no questions asked replacement within a couple of days. Oh no, that's because campy is small and emphasizes quality control. It's insanity.

    It's insanity.
    If you say so.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 03-28-14 at 03:22 PM.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  12. #462
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    6-speed seems pretty old-school to me.
    ...still wet behind the ears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat
    Only a few find the way, some don't recognize it when they do - some... don't ever want to.

  13. #463
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    What is the point of running 6 or 8 speed cassette? To prove that old still works?

    Old is fine but it not as good. It might be fun to ride the old bike sometimes; I do but I like to ride my best and want the best equipment.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    What is the point of running 6 or 8 speed cassette? To prove that old still works?

    Old is fine but it not as good. It might be fun to ride the old bike sometimes; I do but I like to ride my best and want the best equipment.
    That is really the point down tube might work but is not the best!

  15. #465
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    And so it begins (again)....
    Every time that wheel turn 'round,
    Bound to cover just a little more ground!

  16. #466
    Senior Member datlas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    What is the point of running 6 or 8 speed cassette? To prove that old still works?

    Old is fine but it not as good. It might be fun to ride the old bike sometimes; I do but I like to ride my best and want the best equipment.
    I have a steel road bike running Dura Ace 6 speed freewheel in back and DT shifters. Honestly the shifting is perfect and although I like my 10 speed ultegra too, the older setups have their place.
    Quote Originally Posted by RUOkie View Post
    never underestimate the idiocy of BF.

  17. #467
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    What is the point of running 6 or 8 speed cassette? To prove that old still works?

    Old is fine but it not as good. It might be fun to ride the old bike sometimes; I do but I like to ride my best and want the best equipment.

    Sometimes newer is better sometimes not. I like 1999 RSX 7-speed shifters way better than 2009 8-speed Sora, for instance.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  18. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Sometimes newer is better sometimes not. I like 1999 RSX 7-speed shifters way better than 2009 8-speed Sora, for instance.
    Sora is not the best or even second best

    We are not living in 1999 or 2009, Di2 or even 105 is much better.
    Last edited by v70cat; 03-29-14 at 12:34 PM.

  19. #469
    Member jdowdy411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long Tom View Post
    And so it begins (again)....
    It will never die....

  20. #470
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    I know you don't race AKA ride a bike 10+/- miles a month; down tubes are all you need.

  21. #471
    Senior Member Motolegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdowdy411 View Post
    It will never die....
    You have created a monster!


    Getting closer to taking the plunge on the Mirage?
    What, me drive?

  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motolegs View Post
    You have created a monster!


    Getting closer to taking the plunge on the Mirage?
    Save your money and purchase a Cad 10 105.

  23. #473
    Bourbon junkie ricebowl's Avatar
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    Unless you like shifting way too much all you need is the rivendell stick shifter
    tumblr_m2svv2Jkvg1qdvnvk.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
    Show me just one law that says that a person has a right to exercise their judgement or common sense, just one.

  24. #474
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    Sora is not the best or even second best

    We are not living in 1999 or 2009, Di2 or even 105 is much better.
    Maybe 105 Di2 in a year or two! Whoopeee!

    I loved my 6-speed 105, yes I did!

    I hated the 9-speed chain that snapped on me, so I run 8-speed chain on my 9-speed Ultegra rig now.

    Older is better bro
    Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 03-29-14 at 01:21 PM.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  25. #475
    Senior Member Motolegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    Save your money and purchase a Cad 10 105.
    Already bought the Motobecane. Darn nifty ride too.

    OP is a poor college student, likely laughing at the turns this thread has taken, over his savory steaming bowl of spicy ramen noodles. He can't afford a Cannondale.
    What, me drive?

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