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  1. #176
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    My daily ride is an entry level Fuji newest with Sora shifters. I love that bike. I also have a nice vintage Co-Mo with DT shifters (restored the bike myself... crazy about it). OK... I am old... I had DT shifters back in 1964 too.

    So... of the differences between the two bicycles I own.... the shifters are far from the biggest consideration. Geometry and fit are far bigger concerns for me. Heck.... honestly... the bicycles color and paint scheme would matter more to me. If I was to pick between those two bikes the OP linked to.... I'd buy the green one.

  2. #177
    Fresh Garbage hairnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    This guy....

    Cycling doesn't revolve around racing. Shocking, I know.
    I have bikes with 10 speed STI shifters as well as friction DT and bar end shifters to 8 speed cassettes. I enjoy riding with the friction a lot and hold my own in groups just fine. But I also ride SS, so I'm used to not even needing to shift
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    I'd rather ride a greasy bowling ball than one of those things.
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  3. #178
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    So how do you guy feel/think about Di2?

  4. #179
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    So how do you guy feel/think about Di2?
    You need to ask in the form of a comparison the get the best arguments, preferably 2 different companies, not 2 products from the same company.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  5. #180
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    So how do you guy feel/think about Di2?
    Devil spawn.
    "Rivendells do not rock; they jamboree."
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  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Devil spawn.
    I thought you would address the lost exercise since push a button is less work than moving a lever.
    Last edited by v70cat; 03-10-14 at 12:19 PM.

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    So how do you guy feel/think about Di2?
    How do you feel when you use a sensor activated towel dispenser or faucet and it doesn't work? Don't you wish you could do something to fix that? Or when the power goes out?
    It isn't likely to happen with di2, but its always a possibility.
    There's something to be said about the mechanical simplicity of a bike, dt shifter or STI's, there's a cable actuated by human power.

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    How do you feel when you use a sensor activated towel dispenser or faucet and it doesn't work? Don't you wish you could do something to fix that? Or when the power goes out?
    It isn't likely to happen with di2, but its always a possibility.
    There's something to be said about the mechanical simplicity of a bike, dt shifter or STI's, there's a cable actuated by human power.
    Sleepy the towel dispenser analogy is quite good, this difference is that the Di2 shifts better.

    I also don't see much simplicity advantage in brifters vs shifters.

  9. #184
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    I thought you would address the lost exercise since push a button is less work than moving a lever.
    I actually like electronic shifting more than cable actuated brifter stuff. Saying that, my Roadeo has 6800, which seems to work fine.

    My favorite shifter setup has become the friction bar end kind though, which my other bike has. Simple, effective, right there when I need it and I can use the same shifter while using 6 speed freewheels all the way up to 10 speed cassettes. I really like the fact I can dump the entire rear gear in one lever motion.
    "Rivendells do not rock; they jamboree."
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  10. #185
    Cardiac Case Drag's Avatar
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    I didn't even realize you could still buy bikes with downtube shifters. Whowouldathunk?
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  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by v70cat View Post
    Sleepy the towel dispenser analogy is quite good, this difference is that the Di2 shifts better.

    I also don't see much simplicity advantage in brifters vs shifters.

    Simplicity advantage that you can set the levers to Friction and go through whatever gear ratio you want? No need to worry about getting a new shifter everytime the companies decide to add more sprockets.

    Not having to worry about gunk working it's way into the brifters.

    Again, if you're not racing and just want get around, a perfectly reasonable way to ride.

    .... Although it'd be kind of cool to see the modern pros race on DT shifters again, if only to see if it would change who wins.

  12. #187
    Senior Member OldsCOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post

    .... Although it'd be kind of cool to see the modern pros race on DT shifters again, if only to see if it would change who wins.
    The old guys would win.
    Having a flat tire as part of the total cycling experience is highly overrated. Knowing how to fix one quickly is not.

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  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post
    The old guys would win.
    Maybe that is why some of them prefer down tube.

  14. #189
    Senior Member David Bierbaum's Avatar
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    Are there shifters other than brifters, DT shifters and bar end shifters? I seem to remember some newfangled type of shifter that sat on top of the brake lever...

  15. #190
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bierbaum View Post
    Are there shifters other than brifters, DT shifters and bar end shifters? I seem to remember some newfangled type of shifter that sat on top of the brake lever...
    http://www.retroshift.com/
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  16. #191
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bierbaum View Post
    Are there shifters other than brifters, DT shifters and bar end shifters? I seem to remember some newfangled type of shifter that sat on top of the brake lever...
    Stem shifter, suicide shifter......thought control shifter hasn't been made yet though.
    "Rivendells do not rock; they jamboree."
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  17. #192
    Senior Member David Bierbaum's Avatar
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    YES! Retroshift! That's the one I was thinking of! Exclamation Point! (sorry!) Basically taking a Bar End shifter, and putting it on the Hood End instead...

    With the advent of electronic shifting, thought-control shifting really isn't far-fetched even now. There's plenty of research on this control method for prosthetic limbs. I think some form of "Siri-Shifting" might be closer at hand, though.
    Last edited by David Bierbaum; 03-11-14 at 10:43 PM.

  18. #193
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    I think on of the side benefits of Di2 is the ability to add additional shifters (switches) so that you shift when you are in the bars or other positions.

  19. #194
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    1. The word 'brifters' is just dumb.

    2. Anyone who thinks DT shifters are in any way better than integrated shifting needs to put the cap back on the tub glue 'cause they are clearly high.

    FYI, I learned to race on DT shifters and do believe that the art of double shifting with one hand or even anticipating the need to shift have mostly been lost.

    And to thevideo poster above, you are incorrect. You can shift more than one gear at a time with integrated shifting. It's called CAMPAGNOLO. Oh, and your bike is also too small for you.
    Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 03-17-14 at 01:10 AM.
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  20. #195
    Senior Member catonec's Avatar
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    I would choose the brifters

    also for $50 you get shimano over sunrace, alex rims over no names, but I like the straight fork on the reg mirage more.
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  21. #196
    South Carolina Ed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    1. The word 'brifters' is just dumb.

    2. Anyone who thinks DT shifters are in any way better than integrated shifting needs to put the cap back on the tub glue 'cause they are clearly high.

    FYI, I learned to race on DT shifters and do believe that the art of double shifting with one hand or even anticipating the need to shift have mostly been lost.

    And to thevideo poster above, you are incorrect. You can shift more than one gear at a time with integrated shifting. It's called CAMPAGNOLO. Oh, and your bike is also too small for you.
    Come on. You have too a big stake in getting and pushing new product to be credible. Old product works just fine for 99% of people, racer-boy wanna-beees and people that like fine things excluded.

    1. Every avid biker knows what brifter means. Clear communication is good.

    2. You'd lose in court....good video BTW

    3. The advantages of Campy also wouldn't win in court.

  22. #197
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sced View Post
    Come on. You have too a big stake in getting and pushing new product to be credible. Old product works just fine for 99% of people, racer-boy wanna-beees and people that like fine things excluded.

    1. Every avid biker knows what brifter means. Clear communication is good.

    2. You'd lose in court....good video BTW

    3. The advantages of Campy also wouldn't win in court.
    I'm not going to argue my credibility as I seem to be one of 'The Man ' and clearly I am trying to rip people off by pushing 25 year old technology down their throats...(even though we don't sell group sets).

    1. "Brifter" does nothing to add clarity. You still need to ask, "What kind? Shimano? SRAM? Or Campagnolo? How is it any clearer? It's not. It just a stupid, made up word.

    Every avid cyclist would also understand that when you say shifter you mean an integrated lever as that is, BY FAR, the norm for avid cyclists. If you were talking about DT shifters that is when you would need to clarify as they are now the exception.

    2. Being in the perfect gear all the time, every time is not better than being occasionally under/ over geared? Not in my world.

    3. The video states that integrated shifting can only change one gear at a time while DT shifters can sweep gears. This is incorrect, as I pointed put, as Campagnolo also has this capability. The poster is clearly not familiar with this fact.

    Slam dunk. Thanks for playing.
    Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 03-17-14 at 06:14 AM.
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  23. #198
    South Carolina Ed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
    I'm not going to argue my credibility as I seem to be one of 'The Man ' and clearly I am trying to rip people off by pushing 25 year old technology down their throats...(even though we don't sell group sets).

    1. "Brifter" does nothing to add clarity. You still need to ask, "What kind? Shimano? SRAM? Or Campagnolo? How is it any clearer? It's not. It just a stupid, made up word.

    Every avid cyclist would also understand that when you say shifter you mean an integrated lever as that is, BY FAR, the norm for avid cyclists. If you were talking about DT shifters that is when you would need to clarify as they are now the exception.

    2. Being in the perfect gear all the time, every time is not better than being occasionally under/ over geared? Not in my world.

    3. The video states that integrated shifting can only change one gear at a time while DT shifters can sweep gears. This is incorrect, as I pointed put, as Campagnolo also has this capability. The poster is clearly not familiar with this fact.

    Slam dunk. Thanks for playing.
    Norman Bates couldn't have said it better.

    1. "brifter" is a generic term, like "down-tube shifter" or "chain". You can use "adjectives" like "right 2011 Rival" in front of it to add specificity.

    This link should help: How to Use Adjectives in English

    "BY FAR"...highly speculative and unsubstantiated - got any data? What about C&V, MTB, etc.? No avid cyclists on a budget out there?

    2. If you're in the perfect gear every time then you must be perfect!!!...This is really marketing gobbledygook, isn't it?

    3. Video shows DT's get the job done with aplomb. Maybe you should watch it again since you missed it the first time.

  24. #199
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post

    .... Although it'd be kind of cool to see the modern pros race on DT shifters again, if only to see if it would change who wins.
    It wouldn't change the outcome of races. The better riders would still win.

    And any marginal difference in performance would be so small it wouldn't be perceptible to fans.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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  25. #200
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sced View Post
    Norman Bates couldn't have said it better.

    1. "brifter" is a generic term, like "down-tube shifter" or "chain". You can use "adjectives" like "right 2011 Rival" in front of it to add specificity.

    This link should help: How to Use Adjectives in English

    "BY FAR"...highly speculative and unsubstantiated - got any data? What about C&V, MTB, etc.? No avid cyclists on a budget out there?

    2. If you're in the perfect gear every time then you must be perfect!!!...This is really marketing gobbledygook, isn't it?

    3. Video shows DT's get the job done with aplomb. Maybe you should watch it again since you missed it the first time.
    Roll. Of. Eyes.

    1. If "Brifter" is a generic term that requires adjectives to add clarity how exactly is it superior to the already existing word, shifter?

    We are in the road forum, non? If we are talking about "avid cyclists" then integrated shifting for road bikes sold in the last 10 years outnumber those sold with DT shifters by a signifigant margin. Check out the stats at Bicycle Retailer and Industry News if you doubt me.

    2. Yes, I am because I have integrated shifting so if I am not in the perfect gear I can just shift...

    3. I learned to race, and found my way to the podium for a decade before I had integrated shifting. I feel confiident saying I have more than a passing familiarity with them. In fct, I raced my first season on FRICTION DT levers.

    The video shows a NOVICE using DT shifters. There are several shifts I would have done that would have followed the gear inch progression that would have involved double shifting with one hand using both levers. But heck, believe what you want.
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