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Thread: S-Works Tarmac

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    Senior Member lennyparis's Avatar
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    S-Works Tarmac

    If I build from frame up anything wrong with using Roval CX 40 wheels and Ultegra Di2?

    Would use Zipp or Ritchey carbon bars/stem and Look Keo Blade pedals

    I don't race but would I be cheating my experience by not going Dura Ace Di2 and Zipp or Enve?

    Thanks

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    I'm not sure on the wheels, but I don't that the Ultegra Di2 would be out of place.

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    Senior Member cderalow's Avatar
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    if you're not racing it, why go all out on costs (unless you just want to spend money?)...

    it'd help if you had a specific goal to justify the costs... you know... sub 15lbs or something like that.

    otherwise ultegra or even plain dura ace would more than satisfy a normal cyclist. and a basic set of clinchers or even a less expensive set of carbons would be more than overkill

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    Riding anything other than the Enve catalog and SR EPS is a mistake. What's the point in riding if it can't be done with that group and wheels?

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    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    After much soul searching and testing Di2 and DA 9000, I have decided on DA 9000 and am starting to gather parts. I will tell you both are incredibly good. I am driven largely by hood ergos and there isn't a lot of difference between new DA and Di2...same hood shape. As to shifting difference, DA is so very good that I don't see a big advantage to Di2. So it comes down to ease of shifting and Di2 has be given the nod there...versus tactile feedback from the shifter and you can't beat mechanical in that regard versus a button and servo. Just one gearhead's opinion. Both are amazing. I will learn over time if Shimano nailed the firmness of the hoods compared to Campy. Shape of new Shimano hoods is very good but shape isn't the whole equation. Can only learn that over a thousand miles or so.

    As to Tarmac S-works, I am thinking about building one a well as a stable mate for my Roubaix Pro which is an amazing bike.

    In summary, I would say you are definitely on the right page.
    Share the build here when you do it.
    Last edited by Campag4life; 03-10-14 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lennyparis View Post
    If I build from frame up anything wrong with using Roval CX 40 wheels and Ultegra Di2?

    Would use Zipp or Ritchey carbon bars/stem and Look Keo Blade pedals

    I don't race but would I be cheating my experience by not going Dura Ace Di2 and Zipp or Enve?



    Thanks
    Nope, the wheels are great, and everything else is pretty up there. it should do well.

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    I'd probably go with Zipp 303's or 404's over the Roval wheels. You can get Zipp's for around $2k or slightly less if you wait for a good deal.

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    Are you building a bike by committee here? You've got threads going for the frame, wheels, drivetrain and bars.

    Are you cheating yourself or missing out on "something" by not going with all top of the range components? Yup, you are...but what you're missing out on is marginal, at best, in the whole experience of riding a bike. I can tell you from experience, owning and riding a bike with Ultegra Di2 doesn't fill me with regret or keep me up at night. I could afford to build up a Felt FRD frame with Dura Ace Di2, and it'd be maybe 1.25lbs lighter than my current bike...and I wouldn't be any faster or enjoy riding it any more.

    So decide for yourself at what point the bragging rights for having nice stuff aren't worth it and how much money spent on a bike that you're not getting paid to ride is too much.

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    Redefining Lazy Slackerprince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    After much soul searching and testing Di2 and DA 9000, I have decided on DA 9000 and am starting to gather parts. I will tell you both are incredibly good. I am driven largely by hood ergos and there isn't a lot of difference between new DA and Di2...same hood shape. As to shifting difference, DA is so very good that I don't see a big advantage to Di2. So it comes down to ease of shifting and Di2 has be given the nod there...versus tactile feedback from the shifter and you can't beat mechanical in that regard versus a button and servo. Just one gearhead's opinion. Both are amazing. I will learn over time if Shimano nailed the firmness of the hoods compared to Campy. Shape of new Shimano hoods is very good but shape isn't the whole equation. Can only learn that over a thousand miles or so.

    As to Tarmac S-works, I am thinking about building one a well as a stable mate for my Roubaix Pro which is an amazing bike.

    In summary, I would say you are definitely on the right page.
    Share the build here when you do it.
    Do you need to change your username, now?

    S
    Shut up, everything

  10. #10
    Senior Member lennyparis's Avatar
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    Just gathering advice and info so I can decide

    Love the frame and want to build it up the right way

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    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slackerprince View Post
    Do you need to change your username, now?

    S
    No. This btw is a common question. One name and I own all three brands of groupsets.

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    Senior Member Samfujiabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    After much soul searching and testing Di2 and DA 9000, I have decided on DA 9000 and am starting to gather parts. I will tell you both are incredibly good. I am driven largely by hood ergos and there isn't a lot of difference between new DA and Di2...same hood shape. As to shifting difference, DA is so very good that I don't see a big advantage to Di2. So it comes down to ease of shifting and Di2 has be given the nod there...versus tactile feedback from the shifter and you can't beat mechanical in that regard versus a button and servo. Just one gearhead's opinion. Both are amazing. I will learn over time if Shimano nailed the firmness of the hoods compared to Campy. Shape of new Shimano hoods is very good but shape isn't the whole equation. Can only learn that over a thousand miles or so.

    As to Tarmac S-works, I am thinking about building one a well as a stable mate for my Roubaix Pro which is an amazing bike.

    In summary, I would say you are definitely on the right page.
    Share the build here when you do it.
    This is definitely just an opinion then,if you can't see an advantage or difference in mechanical DA and DI2,, then you need to see an eye doctor,,I think you probably can't afford the DA DI2,,so there ,,,hahaha
    For every uphill there's a downhill.For every headwind there's a tailwind!

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    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cderalow View Post
    if you're not racing it, why go all out on costs (unless you just want to spend money?)...

    it'd help if you had a specific goal to justify the costs... you know... sub 15lbs or something like that.

    otherwise ultegra or even plain dura ace would more than satisfy a normal cyclist. and a basic set of clinchers or even a less expensive set of carbons would be more than overkill
    What exactly is a "normal cyclist" anyhow? And how do I recognize one on the road?
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

    "I understand. I just don't care"

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    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    To the OP, that would be an awesomely riding bike....
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

    "I understand. I just don't care"

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    Senior Member patrickgm60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
    What exactly is a "normal cyclist" anyhow? And how do I recognize one on the road?
    Ha! A "normal cyclist," apparently, is one who doesn't pay to ride in circles around the town square. Come to think of it, that's a good term.

  16. #16
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfujiabq View Post
    This is definitely just an opinion then,if you can't see an advantage or difference in mechanical DA and DI2,, then you need to see an eye doctor,,I think you probably can't afford the DA DI2,,so there ,,,hahaha
    I would say yours is a bad opinion. Cancellara rides DA 9000...lol.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BObnTv4zdRE
    Last edited by Campag4life; 03-11-14 at 05:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    After much soul searching and testing Di2 and DA 9000, I have decided on DA 9000 and am starting to gather parts. I will tell you both are incredibly good. I am driven largely by hood ergos and there isn't a lot of difference between new DA and Di2...same hood shape. As to shifting difference, DA is so very good that I don't see a big advantage to Di2. So it comes down to ease of shifting and Di2 has be given the nod there...versus tactile feedback from the shifter and you can't beat mechanical in that regard versus a button and servo. Just one gearhead's opinion. Both are amazing. I will learn over time if Shimano nailed the firmness of the hoods compared to Campy. Shape of new Shimano hoods is very good but shape isn't the whole equation. Can only learn that over a thousand miles or so.

    As to Tarmac S-works, I am thinking about building one a well as a stable mate for my Roubaix Pro which is an amazing bike.

    In summary, I would say you are definitely on the right page.
    Share the build here when you do it.
    C4L, I think your post above is the first I have seen on BF where tactile feedback is mentioned and proposed as a positive difference between mechanical and electronic shifting. I have no experience of my own with electronic to draw from so I am really just opening this up for more discussion. I understand how feedback is important with mechanical since it is valuable for getting the shift right on the gear you want. (With SRAM Double Tap it is extremely important to upshift or downshift respectively as you are trying to do since the same lever is used for both.) But with electronic it would seem to the uninitiated that feedback would be superfluous given the exactness of the system without guidance from the rider. Would you mind discussing in a little more detail why you miss the feedback in the DI2? Are you saying there is a positive result from feeling the chain movement transmitted back through the derailleurs and cables?
    Robert

    "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." (Bob Seger, "Against the Wind")

  18. #18
    Senior Member Samfujiabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    C4L, I think your post above is the first I have seen on BF where tactile feedback is mentioned and proposed as a positive difference between mechanical and electronic shifting. I have no experience of my own with electronic to draw from so I am really just opening this up for more discussion. I understand how feedback is important with mechanical since it is valuable for getting the shift right on the gear you want. (With SRAM Double Tap it is extremely important to upshift or downshift respectively as you are trying to do since the same lever is used for both.) But with electronic it would seem to the uninitiated that feedback would be superfluous given the exactness of the system without guidance from the rider. Would you mind discussing in a little more detail why you miss the feedback in the DI2? Are you saying there is a positive result from feeling the chain movement transmitted back through the derailleurs and cables?
    It's like anything else,a person cannot give an opinion about anything unless they've actually used and experienced both.Im currently using Ultegra DI2 and my other bike is 2013 sram red,while both are great and smooth in shifting,the electronic shifting is FAR SUPERIOR in its shifting both in response,load on the pedals,I've tried everything to trip it up and have not been able to.So because some racer uses mechanical,means nothing to me,,the monkey see monkey do analogy is not sensible to me.
    For every uphill there's a downhill.For every headwind there's a tailwind!

  19. #19
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    C4L, I think your post above is the first I have seen on BF where tactile feedback is mentioned and proposed as a positive difference between mechanical and electronic shifting. I have no experience of my own with electronic to draw from so I am really just opening this up for more discussion. I understand how feedback is important with mechanical since it is valuable for getting the shift right on the gear you want. (With SRAM Double Tap it is extremely important to upshift or downshift respectively as you are trying to do since the same lever is used for both.) But with electronic it would seem to the uninitiated that feedback would be superfluous given the exactness of the system without guidance from the rider. Would you mind discussing in a little more detail why you miss the feedback in the DI2? Are you saying there is a positive result from feeling the chain movement transmitted back through the derailleurs and cables?

    Its been stated by others Robert as well and in fact why Shimano offers their top of the line groupset...Dura Ace in both mechanical and electronic...otherwise they would simply discard mechanical for Shimano's king of the hill. This is by no means an indictment against Di2....its fricking fantastic....but DA 9000 is amazing not only in shift quality but lever throw and effort. Difference is, you feel the shift through your fingers. The detent of the shift mechanism loaded with a spring...versus a button, a slight time lag and then a servo shifting a derailleur. No doubt Shimano spent a lot of time on the electrical buttons of Di2...to try and instill some feedback. Honesty, the mechanical qualities of electric switches is a science unto itself and countless hours going into the refinement of these types of buttons especially in automobiles but even computers, cell phones etc. I have now ridden both and all said, prefer DA 9000. No doubt others will prefer Di2. Also, DA 9000 is cheaper than Ultegra Di2 if you buy right because of reduced complexity of not having a battery and charger...no servos etc....shifters are almost the same cost if you get a good deal on DA shifters. I just bought some new DA 9001 shifters and they are being shipped as I write this. So will see how it goes. Again, no knock on Di2, I just was really impressed with DA 9000 and moreover critical hood shape (to me) was about the same between the two.
    Last edited by Campag4life; 03-11-14 at 07:55 AM.

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    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfujiabq View Post
    It's like anything else,a person cannot give an opinion about anything unless they've actually used and experienced both.Im currently using Ultegra DI2 and my other bike is 2013 sram red,while both are great and smooth in shifting,the electronic shifting is FAR SUPERIOR in its shifting both in response,load on the pedals,I've tried everything to trip it up and have not been able to.So because some racer uses mechanical,means nothing to me,,the monkey see monkey do analogy is not sensible to me.
    But you are the monkey....lol. Come on...give us some more monkey talk.

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    Senior Member topflightpro's Avatar
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    Lenny, there is nothing wrong with the build you are proposing, and no, you would not be cheating any experience. All the stuff you have listed is great. You will not be lacking in functionality or quality anywhere along the line.


    BUT....

    If you have the money and feel like you want DA over Ultegra or Enve and Zipps over Roval, spend the money now and get what you want. If you don't, you're just going to wonder if you would have liked the other stuff better.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Samfujiabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
    But you are the monkey....lol. Come on...give us some more monkey talk.
    Gee that's all you got!I would have expected something a little more intelligent than that,,admit it You can't afford DA DI2,and that's the true reason you settle for mechanical.That is more believable.Its like Power windows are nice,but I like to feel the crank in my hand,,yeah right!
    For every uphill there's a downhill.For every headwind there's a tailwind!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfujiabq View Post
    Gee that's all you got!I would have expected something a little more intelligent than that,,admit it You can't afford DA DI2,and that's the true reason you settle for mechanical.That is more believable.Its like Power windows are nice,but I like to feel the crank in my hand,,yeah right!
    Want to talk about flawed analogies? The Ferrari Enzo has manual windows.

    All he's saying is that he prefers mechanical to electronic in their current iterations, which doesn't detract from my enjoyment of Di2 at all. I could've gone with any drivetrain when I built my bike, I settled on electronic and went with Ultegra because the only benefit of going to Dura Ace for $~2000 more was a tiny amount of weight. You want to demand an admission from me that I couldn't or can't afford Dura Ace...?

  24. #24
    Senior Member Samfujiabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahula03 View Post
    Want to talk about flawed analogies? The Ferrari Enzo has manual windows.

    All he's saying is that he prefers mechanical to electronic in their current iterations, which doesn't detract from my enjoyment of Di2 at all. I could've gone with any drivetrain when I built my bike, I settled on electronic and went with Ultegra because the only benefit of going to Dura Ace for $~2000 more was a tiny amount of weight. You want to demand an admission from me that I couldn't or can't afford Dura Ace...?
    Not even talking about you,,but you didn't call me a monkey,,I really don't care whether or not you can afford or it or not.Im building what I'm calling my "bucket bike"the last I'll ever build,,so it will have the top of the line everything for me at least.The cost ,components,will not have to be justified to anyone as they're not paying for it,if you want Ultegra on your bike,,that's great it's wonderful and I have not one complaint about it.Im sure c4l can defend himself without you input however,carry on as they say!
    For every uphill there's a downhill.For every headwind there's a tailwind!

  25. #25
    has a Large Member Campag4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samfujiabq View Post
    Gee that's all you got!I would have expected something a little more intelligent than that,,admit it You can't afford DA DI2,and that's the true reason you settle for mechanical.That is more believable.Its like Power windows are nice,but I like to feel the crank in my hand,,yeah right!
    You are hard to relate to honestly. I would say the demographic is just the opposite. Guys with money don't ride Di2. My two richest friends don't for example. One friend rides a nice Cervelo and owns 16 houses...yup...16...no Di2. Its why they have money. They don't spend it frivolously. But unlike you, I am a bit careful about stereotypes. For example I may be able to buy and sell you 5x's over....but maybe not. No doubt rich guys ride Di2 but honestly, it has nothing to do with my decision. I used Cancellara as a data point for example which you completely misinterpreted...what a surprise. Best rider on the planet...or in top three..has tested and can ride whatever he wants and he chooses DA 9000. Point is, DA 9000 maybe the best mechanical groupset ever created...perhaps even better than Super Record. Maybe, maybe not. Point is, its dam good and certainly good enough for this rider by far.
    So please, take your stilted monkey talk and go ride your Di2 bike in an electrical storm and maybe you will come back with some sense at least.
    Last edited by Campag4life; 03-11-14 at 11:23 AM.

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