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  1. #51
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post

    25w distribution from an interval session vs an easy ride. It should be pretty clear from looking at the two I'm not grossly overestimating my FTP.
    The only time I look at the 25W distribution is to see if I was training in mostly in Z2 specifically. Like for a 3 hour ride I'll view the distribution to see if I was staying within the zone or going all over the place. Its pretty useless otherwise unless someone here wants to enlighten me.

    If you can do 2x20's at your FTP then I'd say your FTP is spot on. If not, then I think you might want to throttle it down or up as necessary.

    A friend of mine did the lab test to determine his FTP. He backed it up with a 20' to verify the accuracy.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  2. #52
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Sorry mate, but I think you're wrong. Anyone who can push 300 watts (120% of FTP) for 12 minutes continuously does not have an FTP of 250. Especially if they can do it back to back during an interval session. The first interval I averaged 283w, the second one I averaged 275w. Even using conservative estimates I'd be at 250-260w which means I'm not grossly overestimating FTP. I have access to a lot more of my power data than just these two rides. Normalized power over the course of the ride where I am is useless for determining FTP.

    In any event none of this explains why I'm getting winded riding at 100w+ less than these numbers. But I guess we're well past that point...
    Do a 20' test bro you'll get the right number. Don't worry so much about getting winded. It could also be a sign of not enough miles in your legs and you're not used to it. WHen I had a low base last year, I would get winded from easy rides.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    Yeah it does. Your FTP is 220-230. That's why you were winded and will be on a steady state ride in the 180-200 range.
    If your FTP is set correctly you should not be able to ride at 120% of FTP for more than 3-5 minutes continuously.


  4. #54
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Pretty sure this was answered correctly in post #2 .

    Quote Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq View Post
    You are weak, they are strong.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Wesley36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    If your FTP is set correctly you should not be able to ride at 120% of FTP for more than 3-5 minutes continuously.

    Sigh, not exactly
    Power Profiling | TrainingPeaks

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley36 View Post
    Those e-wang charts show all-out max 5 minute power at 120-125% above FTP. That means you shouldn't be able to hold 120% for 12 minutes or your FTP is set too low.

  7. #57
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    You know, we must all be idiots, Dunbar. It's clear that you understand it all better than us. For example, whereas we think you're out of breath because you're not actually riding in Z2 when you think you are, you have a much better explanation which is.....

    ....what exactly?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
    ....what exactly?
    That my "issue" with breathing at low power has absolutely nothing to do with my FTP being set WAY too high. Everyone who is insisting that must be the case is starting with a flawed premise. That is all really.

  9. #59
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    That my "issue" with breathing at low power has absolutely nothing to do with my FTP being set WAY too high. Everyone who is insisting that must be the case is starting with a flawed premise. That is all really.
    So if I ask you where Los Angeles is, and you tell me "it's not in Europe", you would consider that to be a correct answer. And it would be correct!

  10. #60
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    I'm just going to put this out there and see what you guys think of this. Remember this is just a hunch. A hypothesis if you will. I'll bet he has is FTP figured way too high. Eh eh? Anyone?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
    So if I ask you where Los Angeles is, and you tell me "it's not in Europe", you would consider that to be a correct answer. And it would be correct!

  12. #62
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    If your FTP is set correctly you should not be able to ride at 120% of FTP for more than 3-5 minutes continuously.

    1. That's not exactly true.
    2. I showed you direct data from my profile where my FTP has never been 280. How do I know? I tested.

    For some reason you're not wanting to either test or post any previous test results. Until you do that anything you say about your FTP is a guess at best and horribly off at worst.

    Seriously....been working with athletes and power data for 4-5 years now roughly. Run computrainer classes, work with multiple qualified coaches....

    Just do a test.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    For some reason you're not wanting to either test or post any previous test results. Until you do that anything you say about your FTP is a guess at best and horribly off at worst.
    You're entitled to your opinion. I'm mainly taking issue with your vehement insistence that my FTP must be 220 (or whatever your latest estimate is) when my data suggests otherwise. There are many ways to estimate FTP:

    Andy Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins


    How to determine your Functional Threshold Power
    In decreasing order of reliability:

    1. from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of performance is performance itself).
    2. from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training.
    3. using critical power testing and analysis.
    4. based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
    5. from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it is done).
    6. from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
    7. from inspection of a ride file.


    Last edited by Dunbar; 03-14-14 at 03:21 PM.

  14. #64
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    this thread definitely delivers the lulz
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  15. #65
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Have fun. You asked why you were out of breath and don't like the answer that all of us are unanimous in saying. You're FTP is lower than you think it is. It explains the trouble breathing. The only way to refute that is to take a 20 minute test. Take it and post the data. If we're all wrong then we'll all learn something and move on with our lives.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion. I'm mainly taking issue with your vehement insistence that my FTP must be 220 (or whatever your latest estimate is) when my data suggests otherwise. There are many ways to estimate FTP:

    Andy Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins


    How to determine your Functional Threshold Power
    In decreasing order of reliability:

    1. from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of performance is performance itself).
    2. from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training.
    3. using critical power testing and analysis.
    4. based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
    5. from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it is done).
    6. from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
    7. from inspection of a ride file.


    what is clear is that your FTP seems directly linked to your sense of self. That's the only possible explanation for your vehement stance despite all the evidence to the contrary. Let's start here - if it isn't an over-estimation of your FTP, or some sort of respiratory condition, what else could it possibly be? Why not do the test as suggested and we can put this discussion to bed?

  17. #67
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    All I've learned in this thread is that we should probably just stick to talking about which set of carbon clinchers to buy in the 41. I definitely will not be coming here in the future seeking medical advice...shudder...

  18. #68
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    All I've learned in this thread is that we should probably just stick to talking about which set of carbon clinchers to buy in the 41. I definitely will not be coming here in the future seeking medical advice...shudder...
    So....you haven't ever tested and despite using a power measuring device for everything you don't have data the data we can use to establish your FTP.... but somehow we don't know what we're talking about...

  19. #69
    Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk znomit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    Some of the best conversations take place on the bike.
    Usually on solo rides around 3am

  20. #70
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    All I've learned in this thread is that we should probably just stick to talking about which set of carbon clinchers to buy in the 41. I definitely will not be coming here in the future seeking medical advice...shudder...
    I admire you. You encountered a crowd who all thought they knew the answer. They claimed to have much more experience than you. They tempted you with suggestions. But their answer didn't agree with your one pure truth. And you had the strength to reject their teachings.

  21. #71
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    So....you haven't ever tested and despite using a power measuring device for everything you don't have data the data we can use to establish your FTP.... but somehow we don't know what we're talking about...
    this.

    Unless you have some serious respiratory illness, you've overestimated your FTP. Just do the test brah.
    @Dunbar, PM me and I can give you some good locations in SoCal to do the test. I have a pretty good climb near me that I normally do my 20' intervals on.
    -Cat-3-o-meter: TBD :/

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    All I've learned in this thread is that we should probably just stick to talking about which set of carbon clinchers to buy in the 41. I definitely will not be coming here in the future seeking medical advice...shudder...
    You'd learn a lot more if you didn't come into it just looking for everyone to validate your flawed premise (which is what exactly?). It's not like there's dozens of possible explanations. You either have an undiagnosed respiratory issue (which you denied), or, you've overestimated your FTP. What else could it be? You've been provided with a solution (test) which could help narrow it down EVEN FURTHER, but you seem intent to stick to your guns with some OTHER unidentifiable explanation (a second shooter if you will). You're beyond help at this point.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg View Post
    this.Unless you have some serious respiratory illness, you've overestimated your FTP. Just do the test brah.
    @Dunbar, PM me and I can give you some good locations in SoCal to do the test. I have a pretty good climb near me that I normally do my 20' intervals on.
    Will do, I do appreciate the helpful responses. I could do with a lot less of the buffoons.

  24. #74
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    I definitely will not be coming here in the future seeking medical advice...
    That's unfortunate since the results from a sigmoidoscopy would clear this matter up in a jiffy.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Will do, I do appreciate the helpful responses. I could do with a lot less of the buffoons.
    Dude, everyone who's posted has said the same thing.

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