Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Road Cycling (http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/)
-   -   Talking While Riding Is Hard (http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/938025-talking-while-riding-hard.html)

Nachoman 03-14-14 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 16578472)
I could do with a lot less of the buffoons.

Classic.

cellery 03-14-14 06:58 PM

I talk to my bike all the time while riding. Don't see the big deal.

popeye 03-15-14 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 16578472)
Will do, I do appreciate the helpful responses. I could do with a lot less of the buffoons.

Well then why don't you just plug your data into Goldencheetah (free) and it will calculate your CP and go from there?

StanSeven 03-15-14 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nachoman (Post 16578512)
Classic.

I don't know which tread was more entertaining - this or the one on maintenance resurrected from nine years ago

MinnMan 03-15-14 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanSeven (Post 16580278)
I don't know which tread was more entertaining - this or the one on maintenance resurrected from nine years ago

Definitely this one.

Uh, guys, now that the OP is gone, I was thinking.....Do you think maybe it would have been better if we HAD told him about the advanced breathing/talking techniques that the rest of us already use?

Dheorl 03-15-14 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinnMan (Post 16580391)
Definitely this one.

Uh, guys, now that the OP is gone, I was thinking.....Do you think maybe it would have been better if we HAD told him about the advanced breathing/talking techniques that the rest of us already use?

Nah, his mates probably took a long time figuring those out. Would be mean to take away their advantage just because he took the effort to get in to an argument online.

Dunbar 03-15-14 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popeye (Post 16579914)
Well then why don't you just plug your data into Goldencheetah (free) and it will calculate your CP and go from there?

Haven't used Golden Cheetah before but I just downloaded it. Here's my CP from the interval session on Tuesday. From what I've read CP is roughly equal to FTP.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x...1.27.32+PM.png

Psimet2001 03-16-14 10:23 AM

Ok....that's only 1 file and it puts your FTP at 200w. Do you only have 2 files total?

Psimet2001 03-16-14 10:33 AM

Let me clarify - put a ton of your files together and look at that curve for all files. Read the 1hr cp. that's your FTP. FTP is you CP value at 60 minutes. That's it's definition.

Psimet2001 03-16-14 10:35 AM

The other way is doing a 20 minute FTP test. Then take 95% of that average power. If we do that with the curve you have up there you end up at roughly 200-220 - again agreeing with everything we have been saying since our first posts in this thread.

Dunbar 03-16-14 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psimet2001 (Post 16582258)
Ok....that's only 1 file and it puts your FTP at 200w. Do you only have 2 files total?

I put two files in and got the same number (269w). CP and FTP are essentially equal from what I've read.

Critical Power#5 (Critical Power) is also a very useful means of estimating FTP. It explores the relationship between work performed (kJ) and duration (seconds). Essentially all you need is at least two (or more) maximal efforts of at least three minutes and less than 30 minutes duration, say one of five minutes and another of 20 minutes, although the choice is arbitrary and up to the individual. You then enter the average power and durations ridden into the Critical Power model. The model will calculate what is called "Critical Power", which is essentially equivalent to FTP (or at least a very good estimation of FTP).

Alex's Cycle Blog: The seven deadly sins

Psimet2001 03-16-14 11:42 AM

Exactly. Re-read that. Especially about the part about doing 20 minutes and then calculating your FTP.

You're not answering the question. Where is your other data? Are you this new to power work and yet arguing with us who've been doing it for years? If not you'd have tons of files for us to look at and you'd have an actual power test.

Psimet2001 03-16-14 11:44 AM

Again....FTP is cp at 60 minutes. Yours according to the only file you posted is roughly 200.

Dheorl 03-16-14 11:55 AM

Dunbar, assuming you're using your power data for training purposes you do realise that if you actually listen to what everyone is saying about your FTP and based you're training around it you'd actually see more improvement?

dmcdam 03-16-14 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dheorl (Post 16582528)
Dunbar, assuming you're using your power data for training purposes you do realise that if you actually listen to what everyone is saying about your FTP and based you're training around it you'd actually see more improvement?

I don't think that's what this thread is about or it would have been over 3 pages ago. No idea what the OP is looking for but actual answers don't seem to be it.

Dheorl 03-16-14 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcdam (Post 16582551)
I don't think that's what this thread is about or it would have been over 3 pages ago. No idea what the OP is looking for but actual answers don't seem to be it.

I figured I might try and bring some sense back into it.

Dunbar 03-16-14 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psimet2001 (Post 16582497)
Exactly. Re-read that. Especially about the part about doing 20 minutes and then calculating your FTP.

Sorry mate, but you're wrong again. You need to re read it. And the software is calculating CP, not me, so it's not like I'm making this stuff up.

Essentially all you need is at least two (or more) maximal efforts of at least three minutes and less than 30 minutes duration, say one of five minutes and another of 20 minutes, although the choice is arbitrary and up to the individual.

Psimet2001 03-16-14 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 16582570)
Sorry mate, but you're wrong again. You need to re read it. And the software is calculating CP, not me, so it's not like I'm making this stuff up.

Essentially all you need is at least two (or more) maximal efforts of at least three minutes and less than 30 minutes duration, say one of five minutes and another of 20 minutes, although the choice is arbitrary and up to the individual.

I'm not wrong. Have been doing this for years.

Your interpretation of your FTP is incorrect.

Back to what I said before it's not a penis measuring device. You should provide some more files, do a test and see for yourself. Not doing so is blatantly lying to yourself for seemingly no apparent reason. I'm guessing that based on the fact that you only have 2 power files total and have to go search out absolutely everything you want to post on the topic that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You still haven't answered the simplest question:
1. Do you have more power files?
2. Have you done a 20 minute test with a power file to show your performance.
3. If not why have you not done one since the beginning of this thread and now. It takes 20 minutes.

Being SoCal I can understand that you may not have a trainer on hand to do the test easily but there are plenty of racers around there. Racers have trainers to warm up on. Go ask one to borrow it. Do the test and post it.

I seriously don't understand why you won't. If you're right then your test will easily show that. I'm sitting here in Chicago looking at 2 measly power files, but based on those files...your FTP ain't the 280-something you first assessed it to be. You can get some free coaching here and just take the test and email the file to me. You should know my email address. It's psimet at psimet. Super complicated. Even though this isn't a penis measureing device I can see you're very unsure of actually posting more data than what you have shared and feel the need to not share it so send it to me privately.

Psimet2001 03-16-14 12:21 PM

For more information on what FTP actually is just go to the guy who invented the concept - Joe Friel. 3 seconds of googling for a definition comes up with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Friel
Functional threshold power or pace (FTP) is the highest mean average power or pace you can maintain for one hour. That’s quite precise, clear and logical.

Source: Joe Friel's Blog: Functional Threshold

If you think your FTP is 280 or 250 or 260....then show us the files where you have maintained a majority % of that number for over an hour. TT or race files help and are best as you'll be going hard enough.

Dunbar 03-16-14 02:54 PM

You might want to re-read the link below. So far, you've demonstrated limited knowledge of the accepted methods to estimate FTP.

Andy Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins | Two Wheel Blogs

svtmike 03-16-14 05:50 PM

This thread is pure gold.

MinnMan 03-17-14 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 16583007)
You might want to re-read the link below. So far, you've demonstrated limited knowledge of the accepted methods to estimate FTP.

Andy Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins | Two Wheel Blogs

OK,you win the prize for troll of year. The decade maybe. Even a quick reading of that blog indicates that you've got it wrong and psimet has it right. For example,

"The job of Critical Power testing is to use a couple of short Critical Power tests to estimate power output for a longer term, such as 60 minutes. Because Functional Threshold Power and Critical Power at 60 minutes are very close, an estimate of CP60 (Critical Power at 60 minutes) is a good proxy for Functional Threshold Power."
--http://www.twowheelblogs.com/training-with-power/critical-power-testing

psimet has been extremely patient with you and provided a ton of useful information. And your response has been....priceless on the internet, but totally rude and really close to pyscho. God help the people around you IRL.

This is like a car crash. We all know we should look away, but somehow....

achoo 03-17-14 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 16577926)
Sorry mate, but I think you're wrong. Anyone who can push 300 watts (120% of FTP) for 12 minutes continuously does not have an FTP of 250. Especially if they can do it back to back during an interval session. The first interval I averaged 283w, the second one I averaged 275w. Even using conservative estimates I'd be at 250-260w which means I'm not grossly overestimating FTP. I have access to a lot more of my power data than just these two rides. Normalized power over the course of the ride where I am is useless for determining FTP.

In any event none of this explains why I'm getting winded riding at 100w+ less than these numbers. But I guess we're well past that point...

Maths izz hardz.

:rolleyes:

achoo 03-17-14 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 16580456)
Haven't used Golden Cheetah before but I just downloaded it. Here's my CP from the interval session on Tuesday. From what I've read CP is roughly equal to FTP.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x...1.27.32+PM.png

That's 300W for what? 7-8 minutes? At most?

By 10 minutes you're down to 280ish - and fading FAST.

If your FTP is really what you claim, you can hold that power for an hour. If you can't hold that power for an hour, your FTP ain't what you claim.

It's really that simple.

It doesn't ****ing matter what you can do for shorter intervals, even if you fudge the numbers by 25W. Because your anaerobic capacity is masking your aerobic numbers for those shorter intervals - and that's why you're fading FAST by 7-8 minutes into your intervals.

And if you can't talk when you're doing a "moderate" pace, you're lying to yourself about the pace being "moderate".

I'd love to see you post a file from a trainer session where you held even 250W steady for 60 minutes. 250W plus or minus 10W for 60 minutes with absolutely no stops. If your FTP is really where you say it is, you'll be able to do that no problem.

achoo 03-17-14 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinnMan (Post 16584346)
OK,you win the prize for troll of year. The decade maybe. Even a quick reading of that blog indicates that you've got it wrong and psimet has it right. For example,

"The job of Critical Power testing is to use a couple of short Critical Power tests to estimate power output for a longer term, such as 60 minutes. Because Functional Threshold Power and Critical Power at 60 minutes are very close, an estimate of CP60 (Critical Power at 60 minutes) is a good proxy for Functional Threshold Power."
--http://www.twowheelblogs.com/training-with-power/critical-power-testing

psimet has been extremely patient with you and provided a ton of useful information. And your response has been....priceless on the internet, but totally rude and really close to pyscho. God help the people around you IRL.

This is like a car crash. We all know we should look away, but somehow....

Naaah, I'm betting he just reads the "if you hold X power for Y minutes, your FTP is Z" stuff. Which ain't true when applied to shorter intervals for anyone with a large enough anaerobic capacity. Pretty much what Psimet has posted.

And it sure doesn't help that he's fudging numbers to boot.

Seems like he's a bad liar, even to himself. Maybe if he keeps at it he'll learn then be embarrassed two years from now about this thread.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:26 PM.