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  1. #76
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    I could do with a lot less of the buffoons.
    Classic.
    .
    .

    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

  2. #77
    Senior Member cellery's Avatar
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    I talk to my bike all the time while riding. Don't see the big deal.
    I like food.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Will do, I do appreciate the helpful responses. I could do with a lot less of the buffoons.
    Well then why don't you just plug your data into Goldencheetah (free) and it will calculate your CP and go from there?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
    Classic.
    I don't know which tread was more entertaining - this or the one on maintenance resurrected from nine years ago
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  5. #80
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
    I don't know which tread was more entertaining - this or the one on maintenance resurrected from nine years ago
    Definitely this one.

    Uh, guys, now that the OP is gone, I was thinking.....Do you think maybe it would have been better if we HAD told him about the advanced breathing/talking techniques that the rest of us already use?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
    Definitely this one.

    Uh, guys, now that the OP is gone, I was thinking.....Do you think maybe it would have been better if we HAD told him about the advanced breathing/talking techniques that the rest of us already use?
    Nah, his mates probably took a long time figuring those out. Would be mean to take away their advantage just because he took the effort to get in to an argument online.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    Well then why don't you just plug your data into Goldencheetah (free) and it will calculate your CP and go from there?
    Haven't used Golden Cheetah before but I just downloaded it. Here's my CP from the interval session on Tuesday. From what I've read CP is roughly equal to FTP.


  8. #83
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Ok....that's only 1 file and it puts your FTP at 200w. Do you only have 2 files total?

  9. #84
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Let me clarify - put a ton of your files together and look at that curve for all files. Read the 1hr cp. that's your FTP. FTP is you CP value at 60 minutes. That's it's definition.

  10. #85
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    The other way is doing a 20 minute FTP test. Then take 95% of that average power. If we do that with the curve you have up there you end up at roughly 200-220 - again agreeing with everything we have been saying since our first posts in this thread.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    Ok....that's only 1 file and it puts your FTP at 200w. Do you only have 2 files total?
    I put two files in and got the same number (269w). CP and FTP are essentially equal from what I've read.

    Critical Power#5 (Critical Power) is also a very useful means of estimating FTP. It explores the relationship between work performed (kJ) and duration (seconds). Essentially all you need is at least two (or more) maximal efforts of at least three minutes and less than 30 minutes duration, say one of five minutes and another of 20 minutes, although the choice is arbitrary and up to the individual. You then enter the average power and durations ridden into the Critical Power model. The model will calculate what is called "Critical Power", which is essentially equivalent to FTP (or at least a very good estimation of FTP).

    Alex's Cycle Blog: The seven deadly sins

  12. #87
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Exactly. Re-read that. Especially about the part about doing 20 minutes and then calculating your FTP.

    You're not answering the question. Where is your other data? Are you this new to power work and yet arguing with us who've been doing it for years? If not you'd have tons of files for us to look at and you'd have an actual power test.

  13. #88
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Again....FTP is cp at 60 minutes. Yours according to the only file you posted is roughly 200.

  14. #89
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    Dunbar, assuming you're using your power data for training purposes you do realise that if you actually listen to what everyone is saying about your FTP and based you're training around it you'd actually see more improvement?

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dheorl View Post
    Dunbar, assuming you're using your power data for training purposes you do realise that if you actually listen to what everyone is saying about your FTP and based you're training around it you'd actually see more improvement?
    I don't think that's what this thread is about or it would have been over 3 pages ago. No idea what the OP is looking for but actual answers don't seem to be it.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcdam View Post
    I don't think that's what this thread is about or it would have been over 3 pages ago. No idea what the OP is looking for but actual answers don't seem to be it.
    I figured I might try and bring some sense back into it.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
    Exactly. Re-read that. Especially about the part about doing 20 minutes and then calculating your FTP.
    Sorry mate, but you're wrong again. You need to re read it. And the software is calculating CP, not me, so it's not like I'm making this stuff up.

    Essentially all you need is at least two (or more) maximal efforts of at least three minutes and less than 30 minutes duration, say one of five minutes and another of 20 minutes, although the choice is arbitrary and up to the individual.

  18. #93
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Sorry mate, but you're wrong again. You need to re read it. And the software is calculating CP, not me, so it's not like I'm making this stuff up.

    Essentially all you need is at least two (or more) maximal efforts of at least three minutes and less than 30 minutes duration, say one of five minutes and another of 20 minutes, although the choice is arbitrary and up to the individual.
    I'm not wrong. Have been doing this for years.

    Your interpretation of your FTP is incorrect.

    Back to what I said before it's not a penis measuring device. You should provide some more files, do a test and see for yourself. Not doing so is blatantly lying to yourself for seemingly no apparent reason. I'm guessing that based on the fact that you only have 2 power files total and have to go search out absolutely everything you want to post on the topic that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    You still haven't answered the simplest question:
    1. Do you have more power files?
    2. Have you done a 20 minute test with a power file to show your performance.
    3. If not why have you not done one since the beginning of this thread and now. It takes 20 minutes.

    Being SoCal I can understand that you may not have a trainer on hand to do the test easily but there are plenty of racers around there. Racers have trainers to warm up on. Go ask one to borrow it. Do the test and post it.

    I seriously don't understand why you won't. If you're right then your test will easily show that. I'm sitting here in Chicago looking at 2 measly power files, but based on those files...your FTP ain't the 280-something you first assessed it to be. You can get some free coaching here and just take the test and email the file to me. You should know my email address. It's psimet at psimet. Super complicated. Even though this isn't a penis measureing device I can see you're very unsure of actually posting more data than what you have shared and feel the need to not share it so send it to me privately.

  19. #94
    I eat carbide. Psimet2001's Avatar
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    For more information on what FTP actually is just go to the guy who invented the concept - Joe Friel. 3 seconds of googling for a definition comes up with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Friel
    Functional threshold power or pace (FTP) is the highest mean average power or pace you can maintain for one hour. That’s quite precise, clear and logical.
    Source: Joe Friel's Blog: Functional Threshold

    If you think your FTP is 280 or 250 or 260....then show us the files where you have maintained a majority % of that number for over an hour. TT or race files help and are best as you'll be going hard enough.

  20. #95
    Senior Member
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    You might want to re-read the link below. So far, you've demonstrated limited knowledge of the accepted methods to estimate FTP.

    Andy Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins | Two Wheel Blogs

  21. #96
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    This thread is pure gold.

  22. #97
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    You might want to re-read the link below. So far, you've demonstrated limited knowledge of the accepted methods to estimate FTP.

    Andy Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins | Two Wheel Blogs
    OK,you win the prize for troll of year. The decade maybe. Even a quick reading of that blog indicates that you've got it wrong and psimet has it right. For example,

    "The job of Critical Power testing is to use a couple of short Critical Power tests to estimate power output for a longer term, such as 60 minutes. Because Functional Threshold Power and Critical Power at 60 minutes are very close, an estimate of CP60 (Critical Power at 60 minutes) is a good proxy for Functional Threshold Power."
    --http://www.twowheelblogs.com/training-with-power/critical-power-testing

    psimet has been extremely patient with you and provided a ton of useful information. And your response has been....priceless on the internet, but totally rude and really close to pyscho. God help the people around you IRL.

    This is like a car crash. We all know we should look away, but somehow....

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Sorry mate, but I think you're wrong. Anyone who can push 300 watts (120% of FTP) for 12 minutes continuously does not have an FTP of 250. Especially if they can do it back to back during an interval session. The first interval I averaged 283w, the second one I averaged 275w. Even using conservative estimates I'd be at 250-260w which means I'm not grossly overestimating FTP. I have access to a lot more of my power data than just these two rides. Normalized power over the course of the ride where I am is useless for determining FTP.

    In any event none of this explains why I'm getting winded riding at 100w+ less than these numbers. But I guess we're well past that point...
    Maths izz hardz.


  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Haven't used Golden Cheetah before but I just downloaded it. Here's my CP from the interval session on Tuesday. From what I've read CP is roughly equal to FTP.

    That's 300W for what? 7-8 minutes? At most?

    By 10 minutes you're down to 280ish - and fading FAST.

    If your FTP is really what you claim, you can hold that power for an hour. If you can't hold that power for an hour, your FTP ain't what you claim.

    It's really that simple.

    It doesn't ****ing matter what you can do for shorter intervals, even if you fudge the numbers by 25W. Because your anaerobic capacity is masking your aerobic numbers for those shorter intervals - and that's why you're fading FAST by 7-8 minutes into your intervals.

    And if you can't talk when you're doing a "moderate" pace, you're lying to yourself about the pace being "moderate".

    I'd love to see you post a file from a trainer session where you held even 250W steady for 60 minutes. 250W plus or minus 10W for 60 minutes with absolutely no stops. If your FTP is really where you say it is, you'll be able to do that no problem.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
    OK,you win the prize for troll of year. The decade maybe. Even a quick reading of that blog indicates that you've got it wrong and psimet has it right. For example,

    "The job of Critical Power testing is to use a couple of short Critical Power tests to estimate power output for a longer term, such as 60 minutes. Because Functional Threshold Power and Critical Power at 60 minutes are very close, an estimate of CP60 (Critical Power at 60 minutes) is a good proxy for Functional Threshold Power."
    --http://www.twowheelblogs.com/training-with-power/critical-power-testing

    psimet has been extremely patient with you and provided a ton of useful information. And your response has been....priceless on the internet, but totally rude and really close to pyscho. God help the people around you IRL.

    This is like a car crash. We all know we should look away, but somehow....
    Naaah, I'm betting he just reads the "if you hold X power for Y minutes, your FTP is Z" stuff. Which ain't true when applied to shorter intervals for anyone with a large enough anaerobic capacity. Pretty much what Psimet has posted.

    And it sure doesn't help that he's fudging numbers to boot.

    Seems like he's a bad liar, even to himself. Maybe if he keeps at it he'll learn then be embarrassed two years from now about this thread.

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