Of course that cannot be, because the Italian economy has been limping along ever since il miracolo economico ground to a halt circa 1970.
what the ego wants it usually gets, and there is usually someone who'll sell it.
Team Moviestar change to Canyon which is a much cheaper frame. Like half or more or than a Pina. But personally i don't give a f**k what they ride.
If you haven't actually ridden one, at least a nice long test ride, then all you have is a bunch of uninformed personal opinion...or your assessment of someone else's uninformed or potentially biased personal opinion...
OP, one would conclude you posted primarily to hear from others who share your negative opinion...fair enough..
Last edited by gc3; 03-16-14 at 11:28 AM.
"I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."
"I understand. I just don't care"
"I don't give a f*ck" if they remember me at all" (F. Zappa)
Last edited by Avispa; 03-16-14 at 11:28 AM.
If i may clear out something more. Pinarello has been mentioned to me as a frame that is very nice to ride. I ride for fun mostly and for me comfort is needed to be able to extend my to time in the saddle. Ofcourse lightweight bikes and even aero bikes are interesting, but comfort is essential for me. I have had a Scott Foil and it is a nice bike, but a bit too low (stack) and too harsh for me. I have never heard or read anyone claim Pina rides bad, harsh or anything that i deem as bad in anyway.
I actually own a Dogma 65.1 Think2 I also own 4 other bikes, all high end. The Dogma in my opinion surpasses them all. It is just a all around better bike. It is both compliant and stiff both at the same time. It's technology is unsurpassed. Anyone who say's the Dogma's are not technical does not know what they are talking about.
The frame is truly unsupassed. It is made to offset the drive side forces. The headtube is even offset, as are the downtube which has ridges on the drive side that run the length of the tube. the chainstays are also different. the front fork is different on the drive side.
Make a appt. to take a demo ride. You will see for yourself. I also have a carbon wrapped aluminum frame that will rattle your teeth out. But my times on the Dogma are faster.
Mr H has it at the top of his list. Cavendish pitched a ***** when he had to change frames from the Dogma. I have set KOM's with mine and use it for KOM chasing. I changed out my wheels to Topolino VTR4.0's tubulars with Vittoria Corsa version 3.
Ride one and make your own decision.
May i ask, what bikes more do you own? I am curious on this, Dogma has some weight but you still feel you ride faster on the Dogma? Is that, than all your other bikes?
I had some discussion with a few guys that work in a big bike shop. They own several bikes. Conclusive was that none of them felt aero bikes had comfort to talk of if compared to more traditional frames. I have no chane even test riding a Pina over here, sadly. I would probably lean towards the K model. But it would be interesting to ride both Dogma models.
When i was looking for a new frameset, i was looking for nothing in particular talking brand. I just could not come to any other conclusion than i was needing a more comfortable frame. I was indeed looking for an aero at first. But the more i was talking with dealers, builders etc i was adviced towards other type of frames due to the prio on comfort.
Cavendish, well that is a bit weird since he's been saying so much of Venge and also have his own colour scheme. But again, $ talks! Lance bought a Parlee Z-Zero so who knows.
I switched to the think2 frame simply for the internal wiring option. I have 7970. When I saw the think2 for the first time, I wondered how people who have reviewed the think2, said the 65, and the think2 were basicly the same. They are not. The battery mount, something so small, and insignificant makes such a big difference. Pinarello does care about weight, but not wear it counts. If it feasable to have a heavy (by todays standards) metal battery mount, That is what it has.
It is no lightweight by todays standard, but 15lbs-16lbs (build) is not heavy! The think2 just feels solid. It gives you more confidence, road buzz is minimized, and you will bomb downhills with it.
I remember a downhill where I had to be doing around 40+mph, no where near my fastest, but pretty fast. I went into a curve hot, I didn't know it was a hairpin until I got to what I thought was the apex. It wasn't, My heart stopped! I was about to die! Somehow I feathered the brake and just leaned all the way into the turn, I thought for sure I was going down, I knew my tubular was going to come off of the rim and I prepared to go down, somehow I got to the inside of the curve and rode it out.
I lived. My buddy came up from behind me and screamed " I thought you were dead!" I was coasting and I guess I was in shock, The frame never flexed, it followed every input that I made, the rear never kicked out. That is when I gained all of the respect for this frame that I am writing about. From real world experience I am writing. The Topolino's, Vittoria's and the Dogma are one very potent combination.
When I say that it is very comfortable and fast, it is because you don't feel beat up after a ride. At speed it is confident. You will ride longer. I love my other bikes also. My assasin (nickname) uses Madfibers. It is faster than the Dogma, but only over short distances. Dogma's come into their element over longer rides, like fondo's and charity rides, and 30 mile and above rides. I don't take it out daily, Because I kind of treat it better than the other bikes. If you can ever get the oppurtunity to ride one, do it! But remember it is a 30 mile and above bike. Unless it is your only bike, if that is the case, be prepare to clean it after every ride.
You or I have never seen a dirty Pinarello.
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinsonWhere else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdonTitanium Division
WOW! people make it so obvious.
Just wanted to add. I guess to sum the Dogma up. It gives its rider confidence in the bike itself. You find yourself doing things, like you normally won't. As in , braking late, Where normally you might back off.
I rode out my close call, instead of bailing. I really can't describe it. You just feel , like you have something solid underneath you.
Do i need this second super light ride due to my expertise, do i ride so much i need two bikes? Certainly not!
I am mostly estranged that Dogma is so popular when it' so heavy. I find my bike quite heavy, but the Dogma seems as heavy if not even on the + side. I have sensed the Foil was somewhat faster. But it might be i rode the Foil in the summer and the new i have only been riding with way more clothes and in colder weather. Foil was smaller and had shorter wheelbase. I was more on top, on the new i am more inside the bike.
I've had few high end bikes, BMC SLT01, Trek Madone 6.9 PRO and a Pinarello Dogma FP.
I dont know what it is but if the BMC and Trek were like Ferrari's, the Pinarello was like a Ferrari on crack.....
As a newish, non-racing rider I really love they way the Dogma looks. I doubt I'd ever buy one, but they sure are purdy.
Please correct me if I am wrong, But the UCI weight limit is 14.99 lbs. This is the lowest weight of every bike you see the pro's ride in sanctioned races. Only the public (Us) ride bikes lower than 14.99 lbs. My Pinarello comes in at 15.62 lbs, completely built with all of the electronics, pedals, bar tape, bottle cages, . Basicaly pull over and get off bike, Grab water bottles, put on scale, weight. I don't think .63 lbs make it a boat anchor.
I think Pinarello builds its bikes to function at the UCI leval of weight. Not to be the lightest, but to function at the best leval it possibly can, at the required weight. Not for bragging rights. (my bike weighs 14 lbs, but rides like a broom)And brag ( I weigh 400 lbs but my bike weighs 11lbs, but to take a turn I have to unclip , put my foot down and pray, My frame does not make that cracking sound again).
My Assasin comes in at 14.51 lbs, I can not ride it in any event without adding weight to it, by UCI standards. Purpose built. But I will reach for the Pinarello without pause for any ride that truly counts. But like anything , Please ride one and form your own opinion. I am writing my opinion for others to read, I rode one, own one, and now sing its praises.
I think its nice to build the best 14.99 lbs (goal) bike out there.
Rapha & Assos make great clothes but who has $250 for a jersey or $50 for socks. I bet I can wear my $10 cool max T shirt and enjoy the ride.. If you have the coin and need to have one buy it....They are as good as anything else.