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  1. #51
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    The truth and nothing but the truth. But not the whole truth. What you left out is that Pinarello actually sells more bikes by overpricing them rather then fewer. There is a huge segment of the population that can't resist a rip off of that magnitude. "If a bike is that expensive and I can afford it, it must be good and I must be great." No decisions to make, no choices, just spend the most you can. As we say, "They drank the Kool Aid."
    +a bazillion.

    Also Wiggins and Froome win on them, so they must be great.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post

    But, oh yeah, the man is out go get you and is just ripping you off...they all come out of one factory in China...
    For the price they charge for the things, I want an Italian master craftsman to carefully arrange every sheet of carbon and play the song of his people as it bakes.

    Of course that cannot be, because the Italian economy has been limping along ever since il miracolo economico ground to a halt circa 1970.

  3. #53
    bt
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    what the ego wants it usually gets, and there is usually someone who'll sell it.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Avispa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    +a bazillion.

    Also Wiggins and Froome win on them, so they must be great.
    Why must the bike be great just because some pro win on them? Don't you think they'd win on any descent bike, i am certain they would.
    Team Moviestar change to Canyon which is a much cheaper frame. Like half or more or than a Pina. But personally i don't give a f**k what they ride.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avispa View Post
    Why must the bike be great just because some pro win on them?
    Because a pro wins on thems.

  6. #56
    Senior Member gc3's Avatar
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    If you haven't actually ridden one, at least a nice long test ride, then all you have is a bunch of uninformed personal opinion...or your assessment of someone else's uninformed or potentially biased personal opinion...

    OP, one would conclude you posted primarily to hear from others who share your negative opinion...fair enough..

    signed,
    Captian Obvious
    Last edited by gc3; 03-16-14 at 10:28 AM.
    "I tried being reasonable, I didn‘t like it."

    "I understand. I just don't care"

  7. #57
    Senior Member Avispa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    Because a pro wins on thems.
    This is no answer really. It could be interpreted you're undermining alot of work? I have clearly no idea on how magic Pinarello is or isn't. There of the thread. But you can probably swap all teams on all bikes without any questionable differences as long as fit is good. I am no pro and would most surely crack up during a 250km race. If we pin out Pinarello, they are interesting as it is so many opinions surrending Pinarellos, Chinarellos etc.
    Last edited by Avispa; 03-16-14 at 10:28 AM.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Avispa's Avatar
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    If i may clear out something more. Pinarello has been mentioned to me as a frame that is very nice to ride. I ride for fun mostly and for me comfort is needed to be able to extend my to time in the saddle. Ofcourse lightweight bikes and even aero bikes are interesting, but comfort is essential for me. I have had a Scott Foil and it is a nice bike, but a bit too low (stack) and too harsh for me. I have never heard or read anyone claim Pina rides bad, harsh or anything that i deem as bad in anyway.

  9. #59
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    I actually own a Dogma 65.1 Think2 I also own 4 other bikes, all high end. The Dogma in my opinion surpasses them all. It is just a all around better bike. It is both compliant and stiff both at the same time. It's technology is unsurpassed. Anyone who say's the Dogma's are not technical does not know what they are talking about.

    The frame is truly unsupassed. It is made to offset the drive side forces. The headtube is even offset, as are the downtube which has ridges on the drive side that run the length of the tube. the chainstays are also different. the front fork is different on the drive side.

    Make a appt. to take a demo ride. You will see for yourself. I also have a carbon wrapped aluminum frame that will rattle your teeth out. But my times on the Dogma are faster.

    Mr H has it at the top of his list. Cavendish pitched a ***** when he had to change frames from the Dogma. I have set KOM's with mine and use it for KOM chasing. I changed out my wheels to Topolino VTR4.0's tubulars with Vittoria Corsa version 3.

    Ride one and make your own decision.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hbrown View Post
    I actually own a Dogma 65.1 Think2 I also own 4 other bikes, all high end. The Dogma in my opinion surpasses them all. It is just a all around better bike. It is both compliant and stiff both at the same time......
    It's both compliant and stiff, flexy and rigid, hard and soft. Is it both cheap and expensive? I hear it is both light and heavy.

    Mr H has it at the top of his list. Cavendish pitched a ***** when he had to change frames from the Dogma.
    Cite?

  11. #61
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    i use to own this 2012 pinarello fp team. it was copied of the dogma and built for the competition cyclist race team. it was a great riding bike and very comfortable. i kinda likes the frame design.


    Semper fi

  12. #62
    Senior Member Avispa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hbrown View Post
    I actually own a Dogma 65.1 Think2 I also own 4 other bikes, all high end. The Dogma in my opinion surpasses them all. It is just a all around better bike. It is both compliant and stiff both at the same time. It's technology is unsurpassed. Anyone who say's the Dogma's are not technical does not know what they are talking about.

    The frame is truly unsupassed. It is made to offset the drive side forces. The headtube is even offset, as are the downtube which has ridges on the drive side that run the length of the tube. the chainstays are also different. the front fork is different on the drive side.

    Make a appt. to take a demo ride. You will see for yourself. I also have a carbon wrapped aluminum frame that will rattle your teeth out. But my times on the Dogma are faster.

    Mr H has it at the top of his list. Cavendish pitched a ***** when he had to change frames from the Dogma. I have set KOM's with mine and use it for KOM chasing. I changed out my wheels to Topolino VTR4.0's tubulars with Vittoria Corsa version 3.

    Ride one and make your own decision.
    Thanks HBrown!

    May i ask, what bikes more do you own? I am curious on this, Dogma has some weight but you still feel you ride faster on the Dogma? Is that, than all your other bikes?

    I had some discussion with a few guys that work in a big bike shop. They own several bikes. Conclusive was that none of them felt aero bikes had comfort to talk of if compared to more traditional frames. I have no chane even test riding a Pina over here, sadly. I would probably lean towards the K model. But it would be interesting to ride both Dogma models.

    When i was looking for a new frameset, i was looking for nothing in particular talking brand. I just could not come to any other conclusion than i was needing a more comfortable frame. I was indeed looking for an aero at first. But the more i was talking with dealers, builders etc i was adviced towards other type of frames due to the prio on comfort.

    Cavendish, well that is a bit weird since he's been saying so much of Venge and also have his own colour scheme. But again, $ talks! Lance bought a Parlee Z-Zero so who knows.

  13. #63
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    I switched to the think2 frame simply for the internal wiring option. I have 7970. When I saw the think2 for the first time, I wondered how people who have reviewed the think2, said the 65, and the think2 were basicly the same. They are not. The battery mount, something so small, and insignificant makes such a big difference. Pinarello does care about weight, but not wear it counts. If it feasable to have a heavy (by todays standards) metal battery mount, That is what it has.

    It is no lightweight by todays standard, but 15lbs-16lbs (build) is not heavy! The think2 just feels solid. It gives you more confidence, road buzz is minimized, and you will bomb downhills with it.

    I remember a downhill where I had to be doing around 40+mph, no where near my fastest, but pretty fast. I went into a curve hot, I didn't know it was a hairpin until I got to what I thought was the apex. It wasn't, My heart stopped! I was about to die! Somehow I feathered the brake and just leaned all the way into the turn, I thought for sure I was going down, I knew my tubular was going to come off of the rim and I prepared to go down, somehow I got to the inside of the curve and rode it out.

    I lived. My buddy came up from behind me and screamed " I thought you were dead!" I was coasting and I guess I was in shock, The frame never flexed, it followed every input that I made, the rear never kicked out. That is when I gained all of the respect for this frame that I am writing about. From real world experience I am writing. The Topolino's, Vittoria's and the Dogma are one very potent combination.

    When I say that it is very comfortable and fast, it is because you don't feel beat up after a ride. At speed it is confident. You will ride longer. I love my other bikes also. My assasin (nickname) uses Madfibers. It is faster than the Dogma, but only over short distances. Dogma's come into their element over longer rides, like fondo's and charity rides, and 30 mile and above rides. I don't take it out daily, Because I kind of treat it better than the other bikes. If you can ever get the oppurtunity to ride one, do it! But remember it is a 30 mile and above bike. Unless it is your only bike, if that is the case, be prepare to clean it after every ride.

    You or I have never seen a dirty Pinarello.

  14. #64
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    I know. I mean, would you believe that there are people who claim that a heavier, weaker material is superior, especially when handcrafted by an "artisan" is his basement with no QC department!
    um...well...I guess it depends on what you consider superior. More beautiful to my eye, possibly. Probably even. Since I'm never going to be on the Pro Tour, that might just be enough for me...but I'll have to say that hurt a little to admit you have a point (and it's the one from the crabon aspoloding and stabbing you).
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  15. #65
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avispa View Post
    This is no answer really. It could be interpreted you're undermining alot of work? I have clearly no idea on how magic Pinarello is or isn't. There of the thread. But you can probably swap all teams on all bikes without any questionable differences as long as fit is good. I am no pro and would most surely crack up during a 250km race. If we pin out Pinarello, they are interesting as it is so many opinions surrending Pinarellos, Chinarellos etc.
    The are being facetious.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  16. #66
    Super Moderator BillyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc3 View Post
    If you haven't actually ridden one, at least a nice long test ride, then all you have is a bunch of uninformed personal opinion...or your assessment of someone else's uninformed or potentially biased personal opinion...
    That's the backbone of the internet, and especially bike forums. How dare you try to demean and sabotage an international institution!
    Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
    Titanium Division

  17. #67
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    um...well...I guess it depends on what you consider superior. More beautiful to my eye, possibly. Probably even. Since I'm never going to be on the Pro Tour, that might just be enough for me...but I'll have to say that hurt a little to admit you have a point (and it's the one from the crabon aspoloding and stabbing you).
    I just set aside one day a week to pull all the CF splinters out of my legs.

  18. #68
    Beer >> Sanity bikerjp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hbrown View Post
    Cavendish pitched a ***** when he had to change frames from the Dogma.
    No, the general commentary seems to be that he was happy to get back on a Specialized (though apparently not thrilled with Sram).
    Climbs like a stone, descends like two...

  19. #69
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    WOW! people make it so obvious.

  20. #70
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    Just wanted to add. I guess to sum the Dogma up. It gives its rider confidence in the bike itself. You find yourself doing things, like you normally won't. As in , braking late, Where normally you might back off.

    I rode out my close call, instead of bailing. I really can't describe it. You just feel , like you have something solid underneath you.

  21. #71
    Senior Member Avispa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hbrown View Post
    Just wanted to add. I guess to sum the Dogma up. It gives its rider confidence in the bike itself. You find yourself doing things, like you normally won't. As in , braking late, Where normally you might back off.

    I rode out my close call, instead of bailing. I really can't describe it. You just feel , like you have something solid underneath you.
    That is how i feel on my current ride compared to my previous. But i can't really say i wouldn't want a second, super light ride.
    Do i need this second super light ride due to my expertise, do i ride so much i need two bikes? Certainly not!
    I am mostly estranged that Dogma is so popular when it' so heavy. I find my bike quite heavy, but the Dogma seems as heavy if not even on the + side. I have sensed the Foil was somewhat faster. But it might be i rode the Foil in the summer and the new i have only been riding with way more clothes and in colder weather. Foil was smaller and had shorter wheelbase. I was more on top, on the new i am more inside the bike.

  22. #72
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    I've had few high end bikes, BMC SLT01, Trek Madone 6.9 PRO and a Pinarello Dogma FP.

    I dont know what it is but if the BMC and Trek were like Ferrari's, the Pinarello was like a Ferrari on crack.....
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  23. #73
    Senior Member Square Wheels's Avatar
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    As a newish, non-racing rider I really love they way the Dogma looks. I doubt I'd ever buy one, but they sure are purdy.

  24. #74
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    Please correct me if I am wrong, But the UCI weight limit is 14.99 lbs. This is the lowest weight of every bike you see the pro's ride in sanctioned races. Only the public (Us) ride bikes lower than 14.99 lbs. My Pinarello comes in at 15.62 lbs, completely built with all of the electronics, pedals, bar tape, bottle cages, . Basicaly pull over and get off bike, Grab water bottles, put on scale, weight. I don't think .63 lbs make it a boat anchor.

    I think Pinarello builds its bikes to function at the UCI leval of weight. Not to be the lightest, but to function at the best leval it possibly can, at the required weight. Not for bragging rights. (my bike weighs 14 lbs, but rides like a broom)And brag ( I weigh 400 lbs but my bike weighs 11lbs, but to take a turn I have to unclip , put my foot down and pray, My frame does not make that cracking sound again).

    My Assasin comes in at 14.51 lbs, I can not ride it in any event without adding weight to it, by UCI standards. Purpose built. But I will reach for the Pinarello without pause for any ride that truly counts. But like anything , Please ride one and form your own opinion. I am writing my opinion for others to read, I rode one, own one, and now sing its praises.

    I think its nice to build the best 14.99 lbs (goal) bike out there.

  25. #75
    Senior Member thehammerdog's Avatar
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    Rapha & Assos make great clothes but who has $250 for a jersey or $50 for socks. I bet I can wear my $10 cool max T shirt and enjoy the ride.. If you have the coin and need to have one buy it....They are as good as anything else.

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