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  1. #1
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    10 spd cassette on 11 spd hub

    I'm getting new carbon wheels, and contemplating between getting a 10 spd hub or a 11 spd. My good bike has 10 speed Force right now. It's possible that I might upgrade in the next couple of years to a better bike, that might come with a 11 spd groupset. I understand that to do this, I would need a spacer, which compromises a little stiffness in the hub. I'll be using these wheels pretty much exclusively for racing. Has anyone done this before? Any advice?

    and with the way they're marketing over the years, how long before they reach 12 speed? and at what point will it stop, and we can just all have the same speed cassettes?
    Last edited by spectastic; 03-14-14 at 11:50 AM.
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    i'm pretty sure the mavic hubs (since 2001) had spacers on them since those hubs are 11-speed cassette compatible (tends to fit perfectly...strange, maybe they knew something or pushed for 11-speed). I don't think the spacer is going to affect the stiffness much as I don't notice much of a difference between the Mavic hubs I've used and other 10-speed hubs I've used for racing.

    Glory Cycles Product Reviews: Converting to Shimano 11 Some Considertations
    Cat2 <-----------------------------*>Cat3

  3. #3
    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    ok.
    the wheels I'm ordering have bitex hubs (some taiwanese brand). I've contacted their rep about 10 vs 11 compatibility.

    what's puzzling me is how can a hub be 10/11 compatible? the cassettes are different widths.
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    Well the overall axle length is the same so the spacing difference is in between the flanges to make the freehub slightly different. Both my sets of wheels are 11spd (which is good since that's what I have), but both came with the spacer for people who use 10spd. I think the spacer is only .8mm thick so it really shouldn't change much. FWIW, almost all the aftermarket wheels being sold now are 11spd compatible so your choosing should be pretty easy. I know quite a few people who are using 11spd compatible wheels with 10spd cassette's.
    Here's some more good reading for you, the first link goes back to December 2012, the second blog post talks about 11spd hubs halfway through. There's probably lots more easily accessed info I just remember this blog standing out in my head because I was awaiting my CK hubs at the time.

    November Bicycles: Race smart. - November Bicycles Blog
    November Bicycles: Race smart. - November Bicycles Blog - Running 10 Speed on 11 Speed*Hubs

  5. #5
    L-I-V-I-N dtrain's Avatar
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    +1 to sijray. Yes, virtually all Mavics sold over the past decade are 11-speed compatible (and need a spacer to run 8, 9, and 10). Apparently they were experimenting with their own cassettes and freehub width.

    If you buy a new 11 speed hub, it'll likely come with a spacer (like the one Mavic has included for years) to run an 8, 9, or 10. Some might label that 10/11 (I guess so folks don't worry that they are 11-speed only or something).

    Also, there was a thread within the last week about running '10 of 11' on a 10-speed hub. But that's more relevant if you have nice 10 speed wheels now and want 11 speed shifters...rather than shopping for wheels or hubs right now.
    Last edited by dtrain; 03-14-14 at 01:34 PM.
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    My guess would be that 11 speed will be mainstream for the next 8 years before shimano decides to add another cog. At some point.. they'll need to use 135 axle lengths to add more gears. if that happens.. you'll just need to buy a complete new bike anyways.

  7. #7
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    I can't imagine a .8mm spacer is going to make any meaningful difference in stiffness.

    When you put a 10 speed shimano cassette on an 8,9,10 speed hub, you use a spacer that you don't use with a 9 speed cassette.

    Shifting over from 9 speed to 10 speed on the same wheels, I can't say I noticed one iota's difference in stiffness.
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    L-I-V-I-N dtrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    I can't imagine a .8mm spacer is going to make any meaningful difference in stiffness.

    When you put a 10 speed shimano cassette on an 8,9,10 speed hub, you use a spacer that you don't use with a 9 speed cassette.

    Shifting over from 9 speed to 10 speed on the same wheels, I can't say I noticed one iota's difference in stiffness.
    The stiffness question is not about the spacer per se. It's that an 11s compatible wheel/hub would have its drive side spoke heads just a tiny bit closer to the center vs. the exact same wheel/hub in an 8, 9, 10 design. Not trying to be rude, but your example of moving from 9 to 10 on the same wheel isn't relevant to that question.
    Last edited by dtrain; 03-14-14 at 01:42 PM.
    "The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain View Post
    The stiffness question is not about the spacer per se. It's that an 11s compatible wheel/hub would have its drive side spoke heads just a tiny bit closer to the center vs. the exact same wheel/hub in an 8, 9, 10 design. Not trying to be rude, but your example of moving from 9 to 10 on the same wheel isn't relevant to that question.
    I understand that.

    What the OP asked is about the effect of putting a 10 speed cassette with a spacer on an 11 speed hub.

    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    I understand that to do this, I would need a spacer, which compromises a little stiffness in the hub.
    My point is that the spacer isn't going to change the stiffness of the setup.

    The 9 speed 10 speed analogy is relevant because it addresses the effect of the spacer on the same wheel, which is nill.

    The slightly different dish, all else equal, would have a tiny effect.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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    L-I-V-I-N dtrain's Avatar
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    Ah, okay...my fault. I didn't re-read how spectastic asked the question.

    My sense is that he doesn't think the spacer itself is the compromise either. Despite his wording, I think he's asking about the 'dish'.
    "The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson

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    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain View Post
    Ah, okay - my fault. I didn't re-read how spectastic asked the question.

    My sense is that he doesn't think the spacer itself is the compromise either. He's asking about the 'dish'.
    You answered what should be the question. I answered the question he literally asked.
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  12. #12
    L-I-V-I-N dtrain's Avatar
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    ^ Gotcha! Nice teamwork...
    "The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin', man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson

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    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    so 11 speed hub it is. much appreciated.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    so 11 speed hub it is. much appreciated.
    enjoy and good luck! So what wheels have you decided on?

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    Senior Member spectastic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
    enjoy and good luck! So what wheels have you decided on?
    farsports TN50x23 mm tubulars. I've been told farsports are solid, so I went with them. I'm excited to race crits with that badboy.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
    farsports TN50x23 mm tubulars. I've been told farsports are solid, so I went with them. I'm excited to race crits with that badboy.
    Congrats! I rode my 52's in a couple of crits these past two weeks. I'm a beginner racer but can honestly say that I did feel a difference in corners compared to my regular depth alloy wheels. I don't know that I can express what the difference was but for whatever reason more confident, maybe stiffer, who knows. Deep rims sure do look fast as well enjoy

  17. #17
    jmX
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    The difference between 10sp and 11sp is 1.8mm, not 0.8 as far as I know. The spacer that comes on powertap hubs to use a 10sp cassette is certainly thicker than a millimeter.

  18. #18
    L-I-V-I-N dtrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmX View Post
    The difference between 10sp and 11sp is 1.8mm, not 0.8 as far as I know. The spacer that comes on powertap hubs to use a 10sp cassette is certainly thicker than a millimeter.
    That sounds about right. I think the Mavic ones are 1.85mm.
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    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Soon we will have so many speeds that wheels will be negative dish!

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