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Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 03-16-14, 01:27 PM   #26
UnfilteredDregs
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Just road tubeless. Because its Sofa King We Todd Did.
ahhh.... More of the same JiggleBabble.... Ok.
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Old 03-16-14, 01:48 PM   #27
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As for the last comment on why HED Ardennes pre-builts suck at $1k....uh...because the same rim can be used with amazingly higher quality hubs like a Chris King R45 and still save you a few hundred on the retail price. That's why.
Yes. And you can go with the Archetype or XC279, which are half the price of the HED and save even more!

That's not just Jigglebabble, folks.
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Old 03-16-14, 02:07 PM   #28
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Yes. And you can go with the Archetype or XC279, which are half the price of the HED and save even more!

That's not just Jigglebabble, folks.
...and they're not even close to the same physical spec for internal width. Try comparing apples to apples J.B.
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Old 03-16-14, 02:56 PM   #29
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...and they're not even close to the same physical spec for internal width. Try comparing apples to apples J.B.

How are 17mm, 17mm, and 17mm not even close to each other?

Yum, apples.
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Old 03-16-14, 03:03 PM   #30
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...and they're not even close to the same physical spec for internal width. Try comparing apples to apples J.B.
Hed Belgium Inner Width: 17.5mm
Kinlin XC279 Inner Width: 17.2mm
H Plus Son Archetype IW: 17.2mm

Burrrrrrrrn. Owned on the internet; how does it feel?
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Old 03-16-14, 03:29 PM   #31
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How are 17mm, 17mm, and 17mm not even close to each other?

Yum, apples.
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Hed Belgium Inner Width: 17.5mm
Kinlin XC279 Inner Width: 17.2mm
H Plus Son Archetype IW: 17.2mm

Burrrrrrrrn. Owned on the internet; how does it feel?

Ardennes+ / Belgium C2 Plus is 20.5~ mm.



Yum...sizzle...Porcine vapors!!!

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Old 03-16-14, 03:44 PM   #32
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Ardennes+ / Belgium C2 Plus is 20.5~ mm.


Save that victory dance, Cletus.

HED Belgium C2 Clincher Rim : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique

17.5mm, right there. pwned.
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Old 03-16-14, 03:56 PM   #33
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Save that victory dance, Cletus.

HED Belgium C2 Clincher Rim : Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique

17.5mm, right there. pwned.

Pfffft....neener, neener, neener...

Vendor has it wrong:

After pioneering the "wider is better" approach to road rim design more than five years ago with the original Ardennes, HED is now pushing the concept even further with the new Ardennes Plus and its whopping 20mm internal width – 5mm wider than the norm and on par with many mountain bike wheels. While the idea may be radical to some, the positive effect it has on ride performance is undeniable – and big.


Internal width is 20.6mm.


Widened to 21mm internally and 25mm externally

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Old 03-16-14, 04:19 PM   #34
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If you want a rim with 20mm internal, just get some $45 kinlin XD-230 rims! Or take your pick of other 29er rims. But you wasted your coin, and that's still a fact.
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Old 03-16-14, 05:31 PM   #35
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As for the last comment on why HED Ardennes pre-builts suck at $1k....uh...because the same rim can be used with amazingly higher quality hubs like a Chris King R45 and still save you a few hundred on the retail price. That's why.
I tried to price my build (C2+, Sapim CX-Ray x 28...) online with CK R45 and the cheapest I can find with those hubs is $1430.00 including shipping.
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Old 03-16-14, 06:26 PM   #36
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I tried to price my build (C2+, Sapim CX-Ray x 28...) online with CK R45 and the cheapest I can find with those hubs is $1430.00 including shipping.
That's a 600 dollar hubset, 300 dollars in rims, and a hundred fifty-ish dollars in spokes and nipples. Call it 400 dollars less.


That's what he meant by save a few hundred dollars off retail.
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Old 03-16-14, 06:34 PM   #37
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That's a 600 dollar hubset, 300 dollars in rims, and a hundred fifty-ish dollars in spokes and nipples. Call it 400 dollars less.


That's what he meant by save a few hundred dollars off retail.
I got that, I'm not seeing the savings yet...

For $400.00 more I could have a swarm of bees...great.

Except, I don't have a $600 hubset. I have HED hubs...

Where can I find as good a set of wheels for $1K with the R45 hubset?

I haven't seen it...and I don't think it exists?

I could go with DT350s and that would cost me $950.00 for the wheelset. $980 with shipping. So far I've "wasted," $20.00.

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Old 03-16-14, 06:40 PM   #38
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I got that, I'm not seeing the savings yet...
Yes you are.

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For $400.00 more I could have a swarm of bees...great.
Or, you could just have 400 dollars in your pocket, because that's the point of "saving."

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Except, I don't have a $600 hubset. I have HED hubs...
thatsthepoint.jpg

You spent a thousand dollars on a wheelset, and it could have been better quality in the end.

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Where can I find as good a set of wheels for $1K with the R45 hubset?
I haven't seen it...
look harder.
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Old 03-16-14, 06:43 PM   #39
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Yes you are.



Or, you could just have 400 dollars in your pocket, because that's the point of "saving."



thatsthepoint.jpg

You spent a thousand dollars on a wheelset, and it could have been better quality in the end.



look harder.



Ok, so you're telling me I can get HED C2+ rims, with 28 Sapim CX-Ray Spokes, and CK-R45 hubs for $1000.00? Or... Minus the CK hubs, and going with something OEM equivalent... I should be able to source my wheels for $600.00?

I've looked. Well?
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Old 03-16-14, 06:49 PM   #40
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Was this thread about rims or brakes? I forget!
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Old 03-16-14, 06:56 PM   #41
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Was this thread about rims or brakes? I forget!
The gist is that rims are kinda agnostic...meaning disc specific won't have a brake track, etc... The frame/fork needs to be designed & fit out for disc calipers, and the hubs need to be configured to support the rotors. Then, yeah, it went off on a bit of a tangent. OP, sorry!
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Old 03-16-14, 06:59 PM   #42
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Ok, so you're telling me I can get HED C2+ rims, with 28 Sapim CX-Ray Spokes, and CK-R45 hubs for $1000.00?
Yes.

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Or... Minus the CK hubs, and going with something OEM equivalent... I should be able to source my wheels for $600.00?
No. That's not how it works, but you knew that.
You just didn't spend your money as best you could.








I've laced that exact build (non plus C2s) for WELL under a rack.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:05 PM   #43
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Yes.



I've laced that exact build (non plus C2s) for WELL under a rack.

Where at? Built.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:15 PM   #44
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Where at? Built.
If you notice the first two words of my sentence, you'll get your answer.

All parts were sourced online. The difference between what was paid and 1000 dollars would cover wheel build labor, and you would still have money left over for your swarm of bees.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:18 PM   #45
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If you notice the first two words of my sentence, you'll get your answer.
Well, I get that...Sure, if you do your own labor, and are versed in the craft, other than all the time it takes to get really good at it, yeah, you can certainly realize material savings. We're still not talking apples and apples.

$1000, built to order. Not to be found.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:23 PM   #46
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Thanks to those of you that replied to my original questions. I get it now.
But is there a wheelset you would recommend that would be better than what came stock? I would use the new wheels on the road only and would want to stay in the 600.00 range. Once again keep in mind I weigh in at 220 right now.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:25 PM   #47
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Well, I get that...Sure, if you do your own labor, and are versed in the craft, other than all the time it takes to get really good at it, yeah, you can certainly realize material savings. We're still not talking apples and apples.
You have really really good selective reading. Feel free to read my previous second sentence and third sentences.

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$1000, built to order. Not to be found.
I take cashiers checks, homie.




But yeah, I'm gonna stop arguing this point. If you're happy with your wheels, then it doesn't really matter what you paid or what they are.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:40 PM   #48
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You have really really good selective reading. Feel free to read my previous second sentence and third sentences.


I take cashiers checks, homie.


lmao...Now you're talking.

I'm not selectively reading. I paid $1000.00 for a factory set of wheels and the closest custom build I can find online, without having to do it myself, comes out at more $$$$.

Material wise you can always come out on top if you do it yourself. Except there's a cost associated with learning and becoming efficient at any craft, that translates into a labor cost, and if you don't represent that in total invoice, then we ain't comparing apples to apples.

I practice an art. My implements are custom made. Almost all of them. I don't do it myself, the crafting of the tools of the art is an art within the art. Nevertheless, I'll never fail to recognize the value of such.
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Old 03-16-14, 08:00 PM   #49
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lmao...Now you're talking.

I'm not selectively reading. I paid $1000.00 for a factory set of wheels and the closest custom build I can find online, without having to do it myself, comes out at more $$$$.

Material wise you can always come out on top if you do it yourself. Except there's a cost associated with learning and becoming efficient at any craft, that translates into a labor cost, and if you don't represent that in total invoice, then we ain't comparing apples to apples.

I practice an art. My implements are custom made. Almost all of them. I don't do it myself, the crafting of the tools of the art is an art within the art. Nevertheless, I'll never fail to recognize the value of such.

Here's that third sentence you've read:
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The difference between what was paid and 1000 dollars would cover wheel build labor, and you would still have money left over for your swarm of bees.
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Old 03-16-14, 08:04 PM   #50
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No. I'm a wheel builder. Online. Hundreds less.

Whoever was complaining about the internal widths - c2 and Belgium plus are 2 different rims. Plus are fairly stupid wide. Wide enough to have clearance issues on some set ups for road. Really a cross rim.
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