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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
    I bet Eddie Merxx riding an old 30lb steel bike from back in the day would smoke anyone on this forum riding a modern top of the line super-bike.
    Well yes, that's because he's one of the greatest cyclists to ever live. That doesn't mean though that he wouldn't likely smoke himself if he rode both back to back.

  2. #27
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    Saturday group ride on my Campy Paramount doing plenty of pulls. A week later on the same ride with the same guys I had longer and faster pulls riding a CAAD8 full D/A after which the guys commented about the difference. Two years after riding that bike, same Saturday route, same guys I show up on my Giant. Faster and longer pulls compared to the week before with same comments from the guys about improvement. Computer confirms the increases and I feel better after the ride.

    YUP, placeboooooo.

  3. #28
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
    I bet Eddie Merxx riding an old 30lb steel bike from back in the day would smoke anyone on this forum riding a modern top of the line super-bike.
    Even at 68 and with heart issues?


  4. #29
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    When I was ten and I bought a new pair of sneakers I always ran around the store and felt faster.

  5. #30
    Coffin Dodger Pirkaus's Avatar
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    Everyone knows BLACK bikes are fastest.!

    Pirk
    Triples are for the weak and the old.........I guess that make's me both
    If you wait until you're ready, you will wait forever.

  6. #31
    Spit out the back tinrobot's Avatar
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    My titanium bike is fastest up the hill (lightness + agility)

    My steel touring bike is fastest going down (weight + stability)

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
    Saturday group ride on my Campy Paramount doing plenty of pulls. A week later on the same ride with the same guys I had longer and faster pulls riding a CAAD8 full D/A after which the guys commented about the difference. Two years after riding that bike, same Saturday route, same guys I show up on my Giant. Faster and longer pulls compared to the week before with same comments from the guys about improvement. Computer confirms the increases and I feel better after the ride.

    YUP, placeboooooo.
    I do that all the time, even huff and puff like I'm going to cough up a lung, helps sell bikes...

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
    Saturday group ride on my Campy Paramount doing plenty of pulls. A week later on the same ride with the same guys I had longer and faster pulls riding a CAAD8 full D/A after which the guys commented about the difference. Two years after riding that bike, same Saturday route, same guys I show up on my Giant. Faster and longer pulls compared to the week before with same comments from the guys about improvement. Computer confirms the increases and I feel better after the ride.

    YUP, placeboooooo.
    So if you just keep buying new bikes you'll be riding for Sky in the TdF?

  9. #34
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
    I bet Eddie Merxx riding an old 30lb steel bike from back in the day would smoke anyone on this forum riding a modern top of the line super-bike.
    He would beat me....but only because he was a doper.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    So if you just keep buying new bikes you'll be riding for Sky in the TdF?
    Doubt it since the progression from Paramount to CAAD8 was at age 59 and from CAAD8 to Giant was last year at age 63. The only thing I can say is that with growing older and cycling less, the bike has to have something to do with the improvement.

  11. #36
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    All my bikes are so fast, it is impossible for me to be impressed by a test ride.
    Robert

    "Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." (Bob Seger, "Against the Wind")

  12. #37
    Blast from the Past Voodoo76's Avatar
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    Spent a week on a friends Super Six a while back. It honestly felt almost a gear faster than my current ride (I took a bit of crap in another thread for that opinion). After getting back on my bike for a while I now think a big contributor to that was compliance. I ride a very stiff steel frame that feels fast, but will beat you into submission after a while. The current crop of carbon frames are really starting to dial in the ride quality without any sacrifice in BB stiffness, there is no longer a compromise one for the other.

  13. #38
    Senior Member HOWSER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallrat View Post
    When I was ten and I bought a new pair of sneakers I always ran around the store and felt faster.
    I did that once when buying a pair of running shoes. Both my children, and the store associate, thought I was off my rocker.

    I thought it was funny.

  14. #39
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Placebo effect:

    The placebo effect refers to the phenomenon in which some people experience some type of benefit after the administration of a placebo. A placebo is a substance with no known medical effects, such as sterile water, saline solution or a sugar pill. In short, a placebo is a fake treatment that in some cases can produce a very real response. The expectations of the patient play an important role in the placebo effect; the more a person expects the treatment to work, the more likely they are to exhibit a placebo response
    My P3 is faster than my S1, and I bet your P2 is faster than your Shwinn and Motobecane.

    Yes, I know, talking about road bike vs road bike it makes damned little difference.
    #giantsfansforgarrett

  15. #40
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
    My P3 is faster than my S1, and I bet your P2 is faster than your Shwinn and Motobecane.
    Actually horses for courses. The P2 is obviously faster in a continuous straight line. Head up sprint, I'd rather be on the Paramount, and the Motebecane is going to be the fastest in the dirt.

    As for your P3 being faster than your S1, obviously you'd want to TT on the P3, but I'd bet you'd agree you'd be better off on a competitive group ride on the S1.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  16. #41
    token triathlete Bah Humbug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Actually horses for courses. The P2 is obviously faster in a continuous straight line. Head up sprint, I'd rather be on the Paramount, and the Motebecane is going to be the fastest in the dirt.

    As for your P3 being faster than your S1, obviously you'd want to TT on the P3, but I'd bet you'd agree you'd be better off on a competitive group ride on the S1.
    I was taking "faster" as "faster in a straight line", yes. And clearly, a mountain bike will be faster on a trail than any of these. Sprinting doesn't exist in my world.
    #giantsfansforgarrett

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Placebo effect:
    Placebe effect is real, no doubt. But I also think a new, faster ride (or testing one) also prompts riders to up their effort, leading to real, measurable gains. They might go away once the test ride is over, but they're real nonetheless. I think it's increased effort that really produces the actual "upticks" from having a new bike as much, if not more, than any contribution from the materials themselves.

  18. #43
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafzali View Post
    Placebe effect is real, no doubt. But I also think a new, faster ride (or testing one) also prompts riders to up their effort, leading to real, measurable gains. They might go away once the test ride is over, but they're real nonetheless. I think it's increased effort that really produces the actual "upticks" from having a new bike as much, if not more, than any contribution from the materials themselves.
    I think you're exactly right. You're simply describing the mechanism by which the placebo effect works.

    And then people misattribute the actual cause of the increase. Hence, all the posts, "my average speed increased 2mph with my new bike."


    The potential causes for increased speed with a new bike, in descending order of importance:

    1) "New bike effect" i.e. I'm excited about my new bike, think its faster, and therefore it is (significant, but not repeatable);

    2) changes in aerodynamic position (can be siginificant depending on the changes);

    3) Difference in cycle computer calibration ( can be siginificant, but less likely with more use of GPS)

    4) aerodynamic wheels/frame. (marginal, and likely only measurable if going to significantly more aero wheels, or aero frame)

    5) lighter weight (diminimis on the flats, few seconds on climbs)

    6) reduced friction. (truley diminimis, unless changing from high rollong resistance tires such as knobbies).

    ;
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  19. #44
    Senior Member TexMac's Avatar
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    I had this argument last season with some folks.
    I had 12' Cannondale supersix Di2 shifter vs 13' Felt F5 sram rival. Both bikes weighed 17lbs
    Felt F5 always felt faster, lighter, responsive and climbed faster. Cannondale felt slugish, heavier esp during acceleration but was excellent in cornering.
    The only difference was the Felt F5 has a smaller frame compared to Cannondale supersix. Both 54cm.
    Sold cad supersix, bought Giant propel advanced 3 which feels like Felt F5.

  20. #45
    Senior Member TexMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    I think you're exactly right. You're simply describing the mechanism by which the placebo effect works.

    And then people misattribute the actual cause of the increase. Hence, all the posts, "my average speed increased 2mph with my new bike."


    The potential causes for increased speed with a new bike, in descending order of importance:

    1) "New bike effect" i.e. I'm excited about my new bike, think its faster, and therefore it is (significant, but not repeatable);

    2) changes in aerodynamic position (can be siginificant depending on the changes);

    3) Difference in cycle computer calibration ( can be siginificant, but less likely with more use of GPS)

    4) aerodynamic wheels/frame. (marginal, and likely only measurable if going to significantly more aero wheels, or aero frame)

    5) lighter weight (diminimis on the flats, few seconds on climbs)

    6) reduced friction. (truley diminimis, unless changing from high rollong resistance tires such as knobbies).

    ;
    What about the people who have two new bikes?

  21. #46
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    The Honda CB1100 feels much faster than my Trek 1200 even though it is 100 smaller.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

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