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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 03-27-14, 09:26 AM   #26
merlinextraligh
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Originally Posted by Norrick View Post
I assume they didn't have clipless pedals back then? maybe those little shoe cages that they used to wear didn't do so much for the upstroke? just a guess, all that upper body motion to help the down stroke....
This isn't it. They had toeclips with straps, and cleated shoes. That system locks your foot to the pedal as effectively as clipless pedals.
It's not as comfortable as clipless, and harder to get out of. but it does just as good of job turning the pedals.

Edit: Looigi beat me to it.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:29 AM   #27
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FTFY.

High cadence takes a load from the legs and puts it on the aerobic system. Works better with a turbocharged aerobic system.
Basically what I was saying without naming names.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:30 AM   #28
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This isn't it. They had toeclips with straps, and cleated shoes. That system locks your foot to the pedal as effectively as clipless pedals.
It's not as comfortable as clipless, and harder to get out of. but it does just as good of job turning the pedals.

Edit: Looigi beat me to it.
I believe alot of track cyclist still use strap retention too.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:43 AM   #29
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Basically what I was saying without naming names.
Ahhh. So there really was no point in dragging Armstrong's name into this.

Basically what I said.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:44 AM   #30
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I believe alot of track cyclist still use strap retention too.
I wouldn't doubt it. That "harder to get out of" point that Merlin makes is probably a benefit on the track - no accidental unclippings.

I've had SPD-SLs come out once or twice when they shouldn't. I imagine that happening at high speed during a sprint on a fixed-gear bike would be a very painful disaster.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:47 AM   #31
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Ahhh. So there really was no point in dragging Armstrong's name into this.

Basically what I said.
Except that he was the posterchild for high cadence and any science derived from his performances are definitely fruit of the poisonous tree.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:52 AM   #32
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Except that he was the posterchild for high cadence and any science derived from his performances are definitely fruit of the poisonous tree.

Sorry, I was an avid rider back in the 80s during the LeMond era, and high cadence was certainly in vogue back then. I learned to switch from mashing to spinning, and I didn't do it from trial and error, I read about it and tried it. It worked just as well for getting a loaded touring bike up a hill as for chasing down that guy in front of you.

So maybe he was a strong adovocate, but I would suggest many others before him created the science.
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Old 03-27-14, 11:14 AM   #33
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A 42x21 was also considered a tiny gear back then.

My 70's vintage road bike sports a 55-44 crankset and a straight block.
And you left your loafers at home, in the bedroom. And ixnay on white shoes and shorts. Its not tennis.

No kissy face after the race either, except with a leggy blonde.

Koblet carried a comb in his jersey pocket to make himself presentable to the ladies at the end of a race.

Manly men, doing manly things in a manly kind of way.
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Old 03-27-14, 08:43 PM   #34
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FTFY.

High cadence takes a load from the legs and puts it on the aerobic system. Works better with a turbocharged aerobic system.
This is a damn good point.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:10 PM   #35
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Sorry, I was an avid rider back in the 80s during the LeMond era, and high cadence was certainly in vogue back then. I learned to switch from mashing to spinning, and I didn't do it from trial and error, I read about it and tried it. It worked just as well for getting a loaded touring bike up a hill as for chasing down that guy in front of you.

So maybe he was a strong adovocate, but I would suggest many others before him created the science.
Hampsten, Bugno for instance.
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Old 03-27-14, 09:28 PM   #36
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Actually it's right up there with long cranks and elliptical chainrings (they come and go in cycles)...
I see what you did there
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Old 03-28-14, 06:45 AM   #37
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Bugno for instance.
Probably learned that from Conconi.
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Old 03-28-14, 07:13 AM   #38
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Ask anyone with bad knees, spinning is no fad.
Watts are watts, regardless of speed the the crank.
The cardiovascular system recovers a lot faster than anaerobic muscles in your legs.
Having an FTP in mid six range while mashing, would be difficult without "medicinal help"
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Old 03-28-14, 07:49 AM   #39
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So much different than the fluid, spinning style of riders today.
This is not a modern revelation.
In the early 70's everyone in my club rode a ~70" fixed gear for winter training to develop a fluid efficient pedaling style.
Our coach was a track rider from the pre-WWII era who put huge emphasis on getting the most out of a gear by being efficient.
Juniors rode restricted gears to avoid injury and develop a high cadence style.
Every rider was strongly encouraged to compete on the track, in time trials, road races and cyclo-cross to be a well rounded rider.

Then Eddie B. and his cohort came on the scene. Seat height went up, stems got longer and a generation of select juniors went off to Colorado Springs and came back to produce results at the International level.

That's the 70's right there.

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Old 03-28-14, 08:06 AM   #40
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Someone mentioned the EPO of the 90's and 00's probably had something to do with it. I'm reading The Secret Race now, and came across a page where Michele Ferrari switched Tyler to a higher cadence - transferring the load to "the cardiovascular engine and the blood". No doubt, the increased oxygen carrying capacity from EPO in the 90's and early 00's helped switch to spinning. Spinning certainly still has its place. Less knee stress and an increased ability to sustain effort over long periods of time over mashing.
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Old 03-28-14, 08:15 AM   #41
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Had to do a bit of clean up. Keep it out the locker room, m'kay? Thanks
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Old 03-28-14, 08:39 AM   #42
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Had to do a bit of clean up. Keep it out the locker room, m'kay? Thanks
You forgot post #14 . Seems to me if you're going to nuke and pave, you might as delete ALL the posts, lest it happen again.
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Old 03-28-14, 08:56 AM   #43
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Every rider was strongly encouraged to compete on the track, in time trials, road races and cyclo-cross to be a well rounded rider.
Pedaling style aside alot of modern riders could use some diversity in their training to help with what seems like some lack of handling skills.
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Old 03-28-14, 09:54 AM   #44
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Someone mentioned the EPO of the 90's and 00's probably had something to do with it. I'm reading The Secret Race now, and came across a page where Michele Ferrari switched Tyler to a higher cadence - transferring the load to "the cardiovascular engine and the blood". No doubt, the increased oxygen carrying capacity from EPO in the 90's and early 00's helped switch to spinning. Spinning certainly still has its place. Less knee stress and an increased ability to sustain effort over long periods of time over mashing.
I read The Secret Race in two sittings. Great book. Hamilton and Coyle did a great job on it.

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Old 03-28-14, 10:02 AM   #45
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They wore shoes with cleats that prevented the foot from being pulled out of the toe clip without first looseing the strap. Like these: Bicycle Shoe Cleats for Toeclip Pedals $29.95 at Yellow Jersey
And when you crashed you did not come off the bike. Someone usually had to rescue you depending on what position you ended up in after all the fun was over.

Smoother pedaling came with more gears.

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Old 03-28-14, 10:31 AM   #46
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Except that he was the posterchild for high cadence and any science derived from his performances are definitely fruit of the poisonous tree.
Actually, I think you could make the case that Indurain was that poste child, but the "99'ers" would not have known that. Which is fine, but there are a lot of people out there that think Lance invented the bicycle.
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Old 03-28-14, 10:40 AM   #47
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Actually, I think you could make the case that Indurain was that poste child, but the "99'ers" would not have known that. Which is fine, but there are a lot of people out there that think Lance invented the bicycle.
And Indurain did it for the same reason LA did. Very few people here in the states are as familiar with him though.
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Old 03-28-14, 02:08 PM   #48
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41 was the smaller chainring available at the time, IIRC. And the riders in that video don't seem to use larger than 23 at the back.
The tifosi are a show on their own...
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Old 03-28-14, 08:05 PM   #49
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Except that he was the posterchild for high cadence and any science derived from his performances are definitely fruit of the poisonous tree.
Actually, I think you could make the case that Indurain was that poste child, but the "99'ers" would not have known that. Which is fine, but there are a lot of people out there that think Lance invented the bicycle.
What are 99ers?
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Old 03-29-14, 08:14 AM   #50
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Just imagine how good Merckx would have been if he knew how to pedal properly.
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