storckm

When I saw the thread title, I thought it meant ten speeds, not ten rear cogs. All of my bicycles with freehubs have either seven or eight speeds, and I don't plan to change that. I just ordered a couple 7 speed cogsets from REI. I also have one six speed freewheel, and I'd happily ride a ten speed (with a five speed freewheel) if I happened to have one. I really don't notice too much of a difference, as long as the range is roughly the same.

Niloc

Word. I have some 9-speed DA and Ultegra and I think it's very nice solid stuff. A bike mechanic once told me 9-speed DA represents Shimano's high water mark in terms of function and finish. Sure they've moved onto to 10 and then 11 speed with electronic shifting even, but the DA 7700 components are very sweet.

I run 9-speed Campagnolo on my main road bike. It came with it, it works great and I'm running a triple crankset. I wasn't planning on running a triple, but it came with the bike and it's grown on me. I live in a very mountainous environment, so the small ring does get used on big climbs. Nine is plenty cogs for most folks, but certainly if you have a triple up front, there's no need to go to 10 or 11. You have plenty of range already, so why put up with thinner, weaker more expensive chains and cassettes? If I was building up a double or compact double now I'd probably go to 10 speed, because it's more available and you might actually appreciate the extra cog.

Dave Mayer

Not according to the industry sales guys. Anything less than newly minted 11-speeds is obsolete, and "difficult to get parts for". I've heard this over and over in shops.

The 5-year cycle of 'adding another cog' is a key driver of new bike sales. This is a deliberate strategy that helps the industry right down to the shop level in clearing out old customer bike inventory to make room for the new.

Walk into any shop with a decent functional 7-speed era bike looking for a new chain and freewheel. You'll invariably get a song & dance that goes like this:

• They don't make those any more
• We can't get these
• It is difficult to get old parts
• The new bikes have 11 speeds! They are so much better.

So now we are at 11-speeds. This goes well beyond the point of diminishing returns, or even absurdity, and it now has real negatives in terms of rear wheel dish and chain manufacturing challenges and costs. But the cycle of 'adding another cog' is something that the industry is locked into due to the need to keep up the appearance of progress to stoke sales, and to give the industry sales force something to hype. Plus, the 3 big component manufacterers are locked into a cog 'arms race' that no one can afford to jump out of.

bt

rear wheel dish is what stopped me.

RollCNY

I guess I am surprised by you trying to make that point since you have labelled one poster a retro grouch, and used the abacus vs calculator to compare mechanical vs electronic shifting. Obsolete can mean a million things. Microsoft wants XP to be obsolete, even though something like 80% of the industrial base still relies on it. Obsolete can mean out of production. It could mean unavailable. It could mean old technology.

Is a single speed non-track bike obsolete? There is much newer technology, and many gear systems to choose from, but they are still made brand new everyday. You can call it only a fad, or urban hipster thing, but I do group rides and centuries on mine, and there is no hipster part of it. Its just a bike.

So I guess I don't get the point of the whole discussion. Everything from single cog to 11 cog is made, and everyone can ride what they want. How is one any better than another?

BoSoxYacht

I don't have a problem with anyone that wants to continue riding what they have, but some of the reasons why people don't want 11-speed are hilarious.

I have an all 1984 Campagnolo SR equipped Colnago, a SS/C-X commuter, and a 6800 equipped CF road bike. Even though I love the Colnago, it really is just an obsolete piece of rideable art. I still enjoy the bike for what it is, but a modern entry level road bike out performs it in every way other than style/appearance.

RollCNY

That makes sense. I have heard nothing but good things about 6800, but I can easily say I have no interest in it. But if a friend was looking at a deal between 6700 and 6800, I would encourage the 6800, just based on difference in user reviews.

dtrain

They need some type of sales pitch though, right? Even though I'm largely 'with' you...I don't know what else you'd expect on the sales floor. I haven't observed the song and dance you mention around the service area very often.

krobinson103

Let me guess, you ride a steel frame because carbon fiber is know to assplode while JRA.

Nope.I ride aluminium. 8 and 9 speed. Bulletproof the both of them. I know I can trust these two anywhere. One has 30,000km in 1 1/2 years on it, the other 6000km. You can keep your carbon fibre I'll take titanium if I do buy something else.

john.b

I just upgraded my gravelbike with 105 5700, but with a Force 12-32t 10-speed cassette. Some random guy at the shop asked me why I didn't go with 11-32t and I told him I'd use the 14 cog a helluva lot more than I'd ever use an 11 on that bike.

If there were such a thing, I'd have gone with a 13-32t in a heartbeat, trading the 12 for a 16. The only problem with your hypothetical cassette is that there are 11 cogs, and that's what started this whole thread in the first place!

FYI, that 105 5700 GS RD shifts fantastic with the SRAM cassette and KMC chain. Its a keeper.

BoSoxYacht

Well I have 100,000 miles on my Pedal Force that I picked up as part of a group buy started by this forum back in 2007. It has survived all the bumps and bruises that I've been through. If it hadn't fallen of a bike rack onto the freeway, I'm sure it would have been fine for many more years.

It's all good if you like aluminum frames, but I'd choose CF over AL any day of the week.

Jseis 

I debated about going 9 to 10 but then started doing the math thing (taking into account how I ride on a regular basis, my cadence, local conditions) and realized that since my 53 needed changing I'd just drop to a 50 and pick up a couple useable gears in the big chain-wheel. So much cheaper than having the brifters rebuilt and buying a new 10 speed cassette.

Jiggle

It's also cheaper....

Jiggle

Go find yourself a dictionary if you're having trouble with specific words, my friend. I'm pretty sure "obsolete" is in there somewhere between "niggling" and "pedantic".

BoSoxYacht

The common definition for obsolete is "no longer produced or used".

9speed Dura-Ace is no longer produced, does that mean it's obsolete? At the same time, pennyfarthings are still produced, does that mean that they aren't obsolete?


Coasting asked about 10speed becoming obsolete before he dies. The answer to his question all depends on how you define obsolete.

I was answering a question that another poster asked. Sorry if you didn't understand the point that I was making, but does that clear it up for you?

bt

would someone care to make a list of the pros and the cons of 11 speed vs. 10 speed cassettes?

banerjek

The best way to understand the pros and cons of 11 speed is to add all the pros and cons of 10 speed to the pros and cons of single speed...

BoSoxYacht

The biggest drawback to 11speed Shimano is the need for a new wheelset(or conversion/rebuild).

If you are buying a complete bike, there is no significant drawback.

RollCNY

Good thought, except most road riders couldn't come up with a meaningful pro and con list of gears vs single speed. From the group rides I do on my SS, I get some of the most ill informed questions.

zymphad

Going to stick with 10 speed cause I'm cheap.

Long Tom

My buddy is sporting, I think, an 8-speed cassette on his Bridgestone RB-2. With downtubes. He had to do a complete driveline overhaul last year and had no problem whatsoever getting parts. Maybe it just depends on the bike shop.

coasting 

if you don't change gears, are you riding a ss?

BoSoxYacht

There's no doubt you can find 8speed cassettes, but I know that 8speed DA cassettes are hard to find, and original 7400 cassettes are different than the newer ones.

I realize your buddy has DT shifters, but my buddy has worn out 8speed DA STI shifters. When was the last time you saw NOS 8spd Dura-Ace STI shifters? Sure he could use Sora shifters, but those suck.

Just for fun try to find an NOS 8spd Dura-Ace freewheel.