TexMac

+1 My fastest road bike is Felt F5 it also has the lightest frame 800 grams or so.

kps88

I thought Sagan was on the HM Synapse?

zymphad

I think you're right, it was a HM EVO Synapse. So much fun to watch, Sagan is fantastic. So young, I hope he gets to win a major tour some point, not just the points and sprinting crowns.

I <3 Robots

Oh...but I do...

gsa103

Aero seat posts at least keep the post from rotating. One less saddle position thing to worry about. That's probably worth the 50g penalty over a round post.

zymphad

So far back to back TdF wins were on Domane. So far Tour of Flanders/Pars-Roubaix wins have been on Domanes. So far Vuelta Espana was won on a Merida. So far Giro d'Italia won on Venge. So far the best cyclists and most coveted races are not on Propels. So far the world's best sprinters don't ride Giant, they ride Pinarello, Specialized, Cannondale and Trek. So far the world's best win races because they were the better cyclists that day, not because they were riding a Dogma or a Venge. They would still win if their Dogma was a EVO instead properly fitted to their liking.

As for you and your Propel? That's a laugh. No way are you benefiting from an aero bike as you would like us to believe.

Enjoy your aero bike. But lay off the nonsense, trying to imply your Propel has anything to do with the cyclists winning when it was their fitness, speed, and hard work and training. It was because they were the better cyclist for that day.

OldTryGuy

Simply gave the results of some races where the winners were riding a Propel. BTW, the Propel has only been around since 2013. The race results given by you would be the same had the riders been on another frame if agreeing with the it's the engine not the bike 41 mantra.

My Propel is benefitting me and making me faster because it is the most comfortable bike I have owned. Being 63 with numerous physical issues I am simply stating a FACT for myself. After swimming 2.4 miles then TTing 112 miles and then completing a marathon. I am sure about the benefits of the bike for myself.

Enjoy your biking.

patentcad

Shows how subjective this stuff can be. The newer Red stuff is WAY better than the older Red I tried and Force, which was Utter Fail. But Di2 (and I have the first generation 10 speed) is like thought activated shifting. And I don't get tired of it or take it for granted even after a couple of years, it's amazing stuff.

Campag4life

But the Stiffer....is not a good stiff...its a bad stiff. Aero frames have a tube shape that is more narrow and taller to cut through the air.
This results in 'decreased' lateral stiffness and 'increased' vertical stiffness....the exact opposite of what engineers want for best power transfer in a sprint or climbing and for comfort. This is the conundrum for designers and why many after a test ride will prefer a Tarmac to a Venge. In fact, if you listen to the Specialized engineers on youtube talk about the Venge...they state it isn't the most aero bike on the market but rather a more versatile road bike with aero advantage. They did this because a pure aero bike is an unacceptable compromise for many and in particular for lower watt riders who don't ride fast enough to benefit greatly from the exponential increase in air drag relative to speed.

Homebrew01

I was born in Lake Wobegon, therefor I am above average.

roadwarrior

Exactly.

I am riding a bike right now with Di2 Dura Ace and they changed the shifter to feeling like there is more "throw" like a regular shifter. I did not like the little push buttons. I do like the action on the new stuff.

Like everything, the first year out is not always the best. And beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder.

I like the new Di2 but not enough for the additional cost. Just my opinion.

Campag4life

Some riders like to deliberately rotate the seatpost. I do for example. Cobb who has fit thousands of riders talks about it in his videos and on his website. Two....aero seat posts are STIFF...because of asymmetric cross section. There is a reason that Specialized spec's their 27.2mm round post for Tarmac and Roubaix...and same for Cervelo for their R5...compliancy. Plus as stated, you are stuck many times with a crappy aero post clamp design...i.e. the Venge Pave single bolt...which is known to lose its position with heavier riders on rough road when they are getting their fillings shook out.

roadwarrior

That's what I get for not looking at the photos...however, the point is that neither the Evo nor the Synapse would be on anyone's list out here of "aero" because it does not have tubing that looks like airplane wings.

himespau 

Well, only when you were a child.

RobbV

Hey reqm, If your still following this and still considering an aero bike. Do yourself a favor and check out the 2014 Felt AR bikes. Not all aero bikes are as described here by some. The new AR's can't be just thrown into the same pile as is being done here. Felt has made many advancements in these models. It's stiffer in the good way, it's more compliant (less stiff the bad way), almost equal to that of there Z series comfort bike. and even the seat post is new. It's a split design that helps add some compliance as well as improved clamping. There is also 3T vibration dampening version available. I will admit that I can't turn my saddle sideways though, so it obviously won't work for everyone.

pgjackson

No, that's not the point. The point is we shouldn't get so wrapped up in marketing BS that we actually believe that this year's newest gizmo or engineering marvel will actually make us better, stronger and faster. Then when new riders come on here and ask simple questions, we feed them a line about needing high-dollar equipment or else they will be seriously lacking.

RollCNY

Could you please highlight the post where someone said that? The first page reads to me like everyone is saying "meh" as to pros/cons of aero frame.

pgjackson

Here's an example from earlier:

"In a 200m all out sprint (say the end of a crit) an aero frame could get me to the line 8 feet ahead of a non-aero frame (at ~37mph).

In a 40k TT I would finish 1.5 minutes a head on the aero frame.

In a bike leg of an IM I would save around 9.5 minutes."

If you don't have an aero frame you will be 9 minutes behind.

RollCNY

You are quoting one post, which @canam73 immediately said afterward how he got those numbers: taking the highest end aero claims applied to his known numbers in a wattage speed estimator. He did not say they were real, he did not say they applied to the OP, he did not say the OP should buy an aero bike, he did not say the OP would be non-competitive without an aero bike. He even said he didn't believe the numbers.

The only reason that I asked is because this is the second thread in the last week or so that you have stepped in and condemned "the 41" for bad advice, even though no one said what you are accusing "the 41" of saying. The other was the thread on rake, where everyone said "you might notice a difference for a minute, but after that no", and you stepped in and said we are all saying "huge difference, don't do it." Makes me think someone's preconceived notions are filtering their reading comprehension. I mean that as respectful feedback, and not to start a pissing contest.

pgjackson

I can see you've been here a while. I'm sure you have seen countless times where people make wild performance claims to justify buying certain pieces of equipment. When I was considering buying my first road bike a friend (and only avid cyclist I knew) told me that a decent bike would run about $2000. A "decent" bike. I almost stopped looking. Fortunately I kept at it and found a perfect bike for much, much less. The same thing happens with all hobbies, people telling everyone that this year's product is so much better than last year's. That just bugs me, especially when even the advertised marketing differences are so miniscule that it truly is insignificant.

That thread on the rake of the fork...nobody is going to notice a 1.6MM difference. Nobody. That is practical advice. The last thing a new rider should be concerned about is a 1/16" inch difference in fork angle. That is all. I think this forum scares away a lot of new riders because they are immediately bombarded with people telling them they need new wheels, aero frames, high end shoes, performance brake pads, super-duper helmets, flip it...

There is certainly nothing wrong with upgrades or owning an expensive bike...let's just try to keep the marketing fan-boy stuff to a minimum.

canam73

Hey look, I can cherry pick your posts to make them seem the opposite of what you intended, too.

But doesn't that get us farther away from the honesty seem to want on this forum?

pgjackson

I know you were extrapolating based on manufacturer claims. Not saying you were claiming these gains.

canam73

Yes, you did say that:

RollCNY: Could you please highlight the post where someone said that? The first page reads to me like everyone is saying "meh" as to pros/cons of aero frame.

pgjackson: Here's an example from earlier:

"In a 200m all out sprint (say the end of a crit) an aero frame could get me to the line 8 feet ahead of a non-aero frame (at ~37mph).

In a 40k TT I would finish 1.5 minutes a head on the aero frame.

In a bike leg of an IM I would save around 9.5 minutes."

If you don't have an aero frame you will be 9 minutes behind.

RollCNY

I have been here long enough to remember when you lived in California, when you were bike shopping, when you found your Rossetti, and the website work that you were doing for them. I guess that is really the only reason I brought anything up, is that you seem more jaded or negatively disposed than in your history. And that jade is casting on how you are reading things.

Does this forum do exactly what you are saying? Yes, it absolutely does. But in a rare turn of events, this thread, and the rake thread I mentioned, everyone is saying not to sweat the small stuff. If you look back in that rake thread (and sorry to keep digging it up, but it is illustrative) my post said that I have tried 2mm difference rake on the same frame, apples to apples swap, and you notice it for about a minute and then it is forgotten. Have you done that? Have you swapped 2mm different rake forks and seen if you notice? By you saying that it is unable to be perceived, you are speaking in absolutes about something you haven't done.

I don't mean to harp. It is an unimportant point. No ill will or criticism meant from me.

zymphad

The best ones are when certain bikes are REAL bikes.